19 Replies Latest reply: Feb 28, 2012 10:32 AM by the_wine_snob RSS

    Are these still User to User forums?

    Claudio González CommunityMVP

      Since my first visit to these forums, it has been very clearly stated that this is a User to User area, and that these forums are not a way of addressing Adobe. However, lately I have noriced that the expression "User to User" no longer appears in the main page of almost any forum (it does in the Spanish forum, but it also says forums when there is only one). Also, a number of new participants have appeared who display the label Adobe Employee under their names.

       

      Has the situation changed? I ask because, if there are regular participants speaking officially for Adobe, I don't want to appear as a fool by misleadingly addressing "lost" users to other pages when they are really at the right one.

        • 1. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
          Zeno Bokor CommunityMVP

          Don't know the company policy on this but my understanding of it is that while yes, there are Adobe Employees who read the forums this isn't the best place to contact them as most of them are doing it in their free time. (Just about) Every situation that would require an Adobe Employee to answer a question/problem could be better resolved someplace else: problems with customer support? adobecare email; feature request/bug report? there's a designated page for that for each product; problem with serial number or somesuch? contact customer service, etc.

          • 2. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
            Claudio González CommunityMVP

            If they are doing it in their free time, why identify themselves as employees? And there were several of them in the Reader forum, but right now I can only find one and don't have the time to look more closely...

            • 3. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
              Zeno Bokor CommunityMVP

              For the same reason that i'm identified as a Community Professional here: somebody noticed that i'm one so i got the designation in the forums. Also, just because they're here in their free time doesn't mean that it isn't related to their work: it's one thing when a random user asks someone for their computer logs and it's another thing entirely when that random user is marked as an Adobe Employee.

              • 4. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                pwillener CommunityMVP

                Also, communicating with Adobe employees (a number of them being in India) does not neccessarily mean "addressing Adobe".

                 

                The only place in these forums I know that Adobe engineers are participating is the Flash Player forum.

                • 5. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                  Claudio González CommunityMVP

                  I agree; not necessarily. But I would think that any Adobe employee, whether self-designated or designated by some other misterious way, would have and use channels to communicate to her/his superiors what s/he reads in here. Specially those posting at least once a day.

                  • 6. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                    the_wine_snob Community Member

                    Pat,

                     

                    There are some other examples:

                     

                    Chris Cox, one of the developers of Photoshop often posts to that forum.

                    Todd Kopriva, and several other Adobe employees frequently post to the Premiere Pro forum, and especially the CS 5/5.5 forum.

                    There are several Adobe employees (some with the "employee" badge, and some without it), who post to the Premiere Elements forum.

                     

                    It just depends. In the case of PrPro, the Adobe participation is part of the job description, and those employees' participation is greatly appreciated. They can offer an "under the hood" aspect, that we mere users are not likely to have.

                     

                    Just some observations,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                      pwillener CommunityMVP

                      Thanks; good to know that there are other forums with active staff participation.

                      • 8. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                        Noel Carboni Community Member

                        Frankly, employee participation sets Adobe off from the crowd.  It's one thing they do right.

                         

                        Most places won't let their engineers anywhere near customers...  I've worked at several where it's a firing offense to say anything that could be construed as a committment or even just to pass information about how something works or why it works that way.  The lawyers have been given altogether too much authority in the running of such companies.

                         

                        For all the numerous things Adobe does wrong in their dismal customer support, allowing their people to be heard on the forums is DEFINITELY one thing they have right.

                         

                        No doubt someone's going to read this and change the policy. 

                         

                        -Noel

                        • 9. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                          Claudio González CommunityMVP

                          Heard but, is anything done about what they say?

                          • 10. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                            Phillip Jones Community Member

                            I'm Afraid Adobe is just another person the Crowd. The Microsoft Answers Forums Employee's often participate. In fact in the Excel Forums the head Software Engineer of Excel Software participates XinXin is his screen name. He frequently Post and has people to send their bad Excel Files for him to analyze, often fixes files and returns them. He use the information he gains to make correction in next update of Excel. 

                            • 11. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                              John T Smith CommunityMVP

                              >anything done about what they say?

                               

                              I also read/post in the several forums under the overall heading of Premiere Pro

                               

                              From what I have read (I don't work for Adobe) the employees who post there DO take feedback to the development team

                               

                              Later... when they are allowed... they will report back with information on what the programmers are doing about X (X may be a bug or a new feature)

                               

                              Sometimes, an employee will say an idea is being considered, but he/she is not allowed to say if-or-when the idea will ever see the light of day

                               

                              Only after the CEO makes an announcement (usually at a stockholder or financial analyst meeting... based on what I have seen in the past) will employees be allowed to fully discuss Adobe's new or updated products

                               

                              At the very least, it is nice to know that Adobe employees do read that forum, and they do take ideas back to the development team

                              • 12. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                                the_wine_snob Community Member

                                I agree that having engineers, developers, and product folk commenting is a good thing.

                                 

                                Though I have not seen it happen much lately, going back some years, those Adobe employees often got bashed, with all sorts of negative comments about the coding, not furnishing release dates, and update details, etc.. Back then, that sort of posting drove several away, and even "underground" and it was an uncomfortable time. Now, most have an "Employee" badge in their Profile, and in a few cases, we (mere users) have urged a few to add that badge, so that posters know they are receiving replies from Adobe Employees.

                                 

                                I would never profess to know who is working in the forum on their own time, or as part of their job descriptions, though a few have offered that they ARE on the forum, as part of the corporate policy for their department.

                                 

                                I second what John T. reports, and some Adobe Employees have followed up with Technical Support, to track tickets, and responses, especially in those mentioned Premiere Pro forums.

                                 

                                It also allows some product folk to blog (usually with links to such in the threads) with info on upcoming updates, etc., when the time is appropriate. In the PrPro forums, we usually get notices of "things to come," at least a week in advance, though seldom too far in advance, as Adobe is loathe to give release dates, until things are firm and rather set in stone. Still, knowing what is near the end of then "pipeline," is great. In the PrPro forums, we LOVE our Adobe Employees, and over the last few years, everyone has shown them great respect, and welcome their participation. I feel the same way about Chris Cox, and a few other engineers and developers in the PS Forum.

                                 

                                Many of us (users) know how to make something work, but are often limited in knowing how something works. Those Adobe Employees can usually offer the rest of us a "peek behind the curtain," or "a look under the hood." That is greatly appreciated, as all of us learn something more about those programs, that we use so often.

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                                  Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                                  >> Adobe employees often got bashed, with all sorts of negative comments about the coding, not furnishing release dates, and update details,

                                  Oh, that still happens, and still drives many employees away from the forums.

                                  Or as one engineer said "I only look at our forums when I feel like I need abuse."  (he stopped reading and posting over a year ago)

                                  • 14. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                                    Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                    Chris,

                                     

                                    I am very sorry to hear about employee bashing.

                                     

                                    I certainly hope nothing of the sort has happened in the Illustrator forum where some of us really miss Teri (only few others have been round, rarely and long ago).

                                    • 15. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                                      Claudio González CommunityMVP

                                      Bill and Chris,

                                       

                                      I feel very sorry by what you say. This comes as an unexpected and unpleasant surprise for me, as I have seen it happen only very rarely in the forums I frequent, and I would say that never to the extent that you mention.

                                       

                                      In Spanish we say that one feels "vergüenza ajena" when one is ashamed for actions of others; the idiom also implies that one indirectly apologizes for those actions. If there is a similar idiom in English, I don't know it. Pity, because this is what I feel on reading your messages.

                                      • 16. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                                        Jacob Bugge CommunityMVP

                                        Claudio,

                                         

                                        I believe there is no exact equivalent in any other language to this Spanish idiom, which may be why it is known as Spanish shame.

                                        • 17. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                                          John T Smith CommunityMVP

                                          Sadly, some people come to the forum with so much upset/anger that they bash EVERYONE about their problems... that does not help them, and it upsets the people who are trying to help them with their problem, but it is just the way some people react

                                           

                                          As far as problems and employees... software is not just the work of one person... from top to bottom of the process there may be a hundred or more people involved in putting a program out for sale

                                           

                                          With size and complexity, come problems as users run the software on hardware combinations that were not tested, or try to do things that were not envisioned (for PPro, that could mean trying to edit video from **odd** sources)

                                           

                                          The PPro forum has a lot of users, and a few employees, who try to help everyone who asks a question... some people come in upset/angry and leave the same way when their problem is not fixed... or they become upset when they are asked many questions because what they are trying to say is not clear

                                           

                                          Still, it's too bad that people get bashed for something they did not do

                                          • 18. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                                            Phillip Jones Community Member

                                            There is no point in getting mad at the employees that actually write the software or try to support the software. They are just following what the bean counters are telling them to do.

                                             

                                            Software these days is not written for the user. but to placate the bean Counters, officers, the BOD, and the investors.  All companies have lost sight that it’s the consumers of the products that matter, without customers then the companies will eventually fail. Today's way of thinking is get in, line their pockets as much as they can, and get out, and the rest get hurt. the employees that try to do right by the users and the users are the ones that get hurt.

                                            • 19. Re: Are these still User to User forums?
                                              the_wine_snob Community Member

                                              John T.,

                                               

                                              As you and I often frequent some of the same forums, and have for many years now, I think that you will agree that the general attitude towards Adobe employees, has improved over the last few years. Going back to about PrPro CS 3, I can recall poor Wil getting bashed about, and others facing a demand to provide release dates and details for fixes. Much of that has passed into just being a footnote in forum history. Now, I find things much more civil. Oh yes, there ARE some rants, but they are seldom directed at any contributing Adobe engineers - at least not recently, or that I can recall.

                                               

                                              I can identify with frustrations, but always respect contributors (employees, or other), who are trying to help me sort something out.

                                               

                                              Hunt