30 Replies Latest reply: Feb 26, 2012 3:16 AM by nealeh RSS

    Program crashes when rendering project

    blooglet Community Member

      I was trying to render a project of ~11 minutes of SD video at 60fps. Some time after starting to render the project, I saw this:

       

      (click to enlarge)

       

      Essentially, the program was stuck on "5 seconds left". When I clicked Cancel, this happened:

       

       

      Why is this happening to me? I just bought Premiere Elements and this definitely isn't what I expected from a respected software company. I'm using Windows 7 32-bit on my 64-bit capable machine (that's what was preinstalled). I've got 4GB RAM (about 3GB of which can be used) and my graphics card is reported as ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4300/4500 Series. Installed driver version is 8.872.0.0 dated 7/07/2011.

        • 1. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
          nealeh Community Member

          Immediately update that graphic driver - it is well out of date. While your at it update your sound drivers and install the latest version of QuickTime player.

           

          These may well sort out your problem but if not you should work through PrE Hanging, or Crashing - Some Tips. If that doesn't help we need a lot more information about your project, clips, and hardware - see Got a Problem? How to Get Started.

           

          Also you say 60fps (which is really NTSC 30fps interlaced) but the error message language suggests you're in Europe, in which case I would have expected to see a PAL project (25fps) rather than NTSC. So the GSpot analysis (details in the link above) of your clip will be of great interest as will the project setting you used and how you got the clip into PRE.

           

          When you first added your clips did you see a red line running the length of your timeline? If so then your project setting is almost certainly wrong.

           

          [EDIT] And could you, in timeline view, press the backspace key [\] (this will enlarge your timeline so that the detail will show). Then post another screenshot showing that timeline.[/EDIT]

           

          Cheers,

          --

          Neale

          Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

           

          Added [EDIT]

          • 2. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
            blooglet Community Member

            Alrighty... I already tried updating the driver using ATI's auto-install software but it said I already had the newest version of the display driver. I also tried downloading the Catalyst package manually with the same result.

             

            http://i.imgur.com/jhPQG.jpg

             

            I just installed QuickTime as you recommended. The Backspace hotkey you mentioned doesn't do anything here (is it keymap-dependent, perhaps?) but I did take a screenshot with the timeline zoomed out:

             

             

            I used mostly text and image overlays. At one point I do have three videos playing at once on the screen though. Project settings:

             

            http://i.imgur.com/l7ow4.jpg

            http://i.imgur.com/sJhiC.jpg

            http://i.imgur.com/2c0EJ.jpg

            All of the clips I used originated from a certain camera. Here are the characteristics of one such clip:

             

            http://i.imgur.com/iFG9z.jpg

             

            Oh, and I'm also getting these low memory notifications every now and then. At its peak Premiere Elements was using around 1 gig, but it has shown me this error while at ~400MB in the past.

             

            http://i.imgur.com/VOWJc.jpg

            • 3. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
              nealeh Community Member

              blooglet wrote:

               

              I just installed QuickTime as you recommended. The Backspace hotkey you mentioned doesn't do anything here (is it keymap-dependent, perhaps?) but I did take a screenshot with the timeline zoomed out:

               

              Typo on my part - should be backSLASH key ( the  \  key). If you are on a non US/UK keyboard it might be different although I'd be surprised.

               

              Cheers,

              --

              Neale

              Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

              • 4. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                the_wine_snob Community Member

                I would look over this ARTICLE.That is the same link that Neale provided.  It starts with a checklist on things to do, to get PrE working smoothly. It then goes on, with several links to tuning up one's system and OS. Finally, there are several links on troubleshooting, including one on Memory/Resources. See especially the Memory/Resources links, as they explain more about Memory and Resources.

                 

                From the ATI/AMD Web Site, your driver is our of date, with the most recent being released on 01/25/2012.

                 

                Good luck,

                 

                Hunt

                • 5. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                  nealeh Community Member

                  You have a  PAL AVCHD Lite 1280x720p 25fps project but you are using NTSC 848x480 29.97fps clips. So there is clearly a project setting mismatch and when you loaded the clips there would have been a red line running the length of the timeline. I'm surprised that PRE did not warn you about this mismatch (unless you had imported your stills and/or created a Title first).

                   

                  The 848 pixel width is unusual and probably therefore in a format not supported by PRE. Where did this clip come from and how did you get it into PRE originally?

                   

                  You should probably start a new project with an NTSC setting to match the frame rates. You could then use the commercial clipboard manger 'Clipmate' to copy and paste your timeline into the new project (they have a trial version available).

                   

                  If you want to try and avoid a new project from scratch you could start a new NTSC project for your MOV clips. Load each one in and then Share each as PAL DV-AVI. Then replace the NTSC clips in your current timeline with the converted PAL versions. Note though that frame rate conversions can be tricky (although recently I've been pleasantly surprised how well PRE10 converted some 'proper' 720x480 29.97fps NTSC clips to  'proper' 720x576 25fps PAL).

                   

                  [EDIT]

                  And as Bill says there looks to be a newer version (5th Dec 2011, v8.930.0.000) available.

                  [/EDIT]

                   

                  Cheers,

                  --

                  Neale

                  Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                   

                  Added [EDIT]

                  • 6. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                    blooglet Community Member
                    you are using NTSC 848x480 29.97fps clips

                     

                    How is this possible? I bought this camera from a respected Belgian retailer. Don't all European electronics use PAL?

                     

                    Concerning the driver: that's just the Catalyst suite which includes the driver, not the driver itself. I already tried downloading that file but it said my driver was up to date. I'll reboot to see if it makes a difference.

                    • 7. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                      the_wine_snob Community Member

                      What is the exact make/model of the camcorder?

                       

                      Is it possible that it offers a dual TV-standard, i.e. either PAL, or NTSC? Some allow the user to switch TV-standard.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                        nealeh Community Member

                        Or it could be a grey import (I imported my Sony DSC from Hong Kong and it shoots NTSC rather than PAL). But then I also have a UK Hitachi DZ-HV575E which shoots at 30fps.

                         

                        Incidentally, while looking at the specifications for that Hitachi, I spotted that 848x480 is present on it and is described as "WVGA". When I get a chance I'll shoot some WVGA clips with it and see what I can do with it in PRE and let you know my results.

                         

                        Cheers,

                        --

                        Neale

                        Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                        • 9. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                          blooglet Community Member

                          You're right, it does have a PAL/NTSC setting. It was set to PAL but since the footage is over 1.5 years old, it's possible that I discovered this setting later and then forgot about it. D'oh. I'm still looking into other possible issues that you guys have posted above. Keeping you updated.

                          • 10. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                            blooglet Community Member

                            I've updated my graphics card driver using the link Bill Hunt provided, but I don't think it fixed any of the problems. To name one thing that I haven't mentioned earlier yet, zooming in and out on the timeline is still painstakenly slow. I still haven't tried creating an NTSC project settings, though. I'll give that a go later today.

                             

                            How come I can just edit the project like nothing is wrong and then have Premiere fail on me during rendering?

                            • 11. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                              the_wine_snob Community Member

                              Well, certain functions/operations, such as Rendering, or Export/Share, or Transcoding for authoring DVD's/BD's, can be very intensive. They also require both CPU cycles, and also I/O (HDD) interaction. If there are bottlenecks, say low HDD free-space, things can go very wrong. Can you give us the full specs. of your I/O sub-system, i.e. your HDD's, their size, speed, defragmented free-space, controller type, and how you have them allocated? Might be something important in that info, and something that may need to be addressed.

                               

                              Also note that with a 32-bit OS, and the RAM limits imposed by that OS, the Windows Virtual Memory (Page File) WILL come into play, and especially for intensive operations. For Video editing, I like to set up my Page File to be statically managed (default is to let Windows dynamically manage it), and set the size to ~ 2.5x that of the installed RAM, i.e. ~ 10GB for 4GB of installed RAM. With 64-bit OS's, and their capability to use much more RAM, if one has filled the MoBo's slots with the full compliment of RAM, then the Page File will be used much less, and can be much smaller, say with 24GB RAM, the Page File can be ~ 12GB, but I still leave it statically managed, and for several reasons - I set the Page File up, when the HDD's ONLY have the OS installed, so that it is always created at bootup in the same exact space on the HDD, and near the edge of the platters, and also static management means fewer CPU cycles used to manage - more CPU for PrE.

                               

                              Good luck,

                               

                              Hunt

                              • 12. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                the_wine_snob Community Member

                                Though the new video driver installation might not have addressed your specific problems, when something goes a bit amiss, it is the first thing that I do, with the updating of my audio driver next. Now, I keep a few previous video drivers handy, as there have been a few (very few) cases, where a new driver was "broken," and a roll-back helped, until nVidia, or ATI/AMD issued a new, better driver.

                                 

                                Good luck,

                                 

                                Hunt

                                • 13. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                  nealeh Community Member

                                  OK. I've played around with WVGA from my Hitachi for a few hours.

                                   

                                  On the plus side PRE can import and (jerkily) play the clip. But the same clip completely crashes (requiring a Task Manager kill):

                                  • Corel VideoStudio X4
                                  • Magix Movies on DVD 7

                                   

                                  Windows MovieMaker 2.6 can import and preview the clip but, once placed on the timeline, also crashes and needs Task Manager to kill the process.

                                   

                                  My video converter (Aimersoft Video Converter Pro) can read and convert it to a PRE useable format. As can Arcsoft MediaImpression included with the camera.

                                   

                                  Morale: Don't shoot in WVGA !

                                   

                                  Cheers,

                                  --

                                  Neale

                                  Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                  • 14. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                    the_wine_snob Community Member

                                    Neale,

                                     

                                    Thank you for both doing the tests, and also taking the time to report on the issues/results.

                                     

                                    Appreciated,

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                      blooglet Community Member

                                      Interesting. I shot in this mode because 60 fps allows me to slow down clips more without it becoming choppy. Do you think Premiere would have less of a hard time if I upscaled everything to 720p video (60 fps)?

                                      • 16. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                        nealeh Community Member

                                        What you are shooting this footage on and what other modes can it shoot in?

                                         

                                         

                                        Cheers,

                                        --

                                        Neale

                                        Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                        • 17. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                          blooglet Community Member

                                          As you said I shot in WVGA60. I can shoot in 720p and 1080p, both at a standard framerate. VGA and QVGA are also available, but their quality isn't high enough.

                                           

                                          Would it make sense to upscale my existing videos to 720p PAL video to avoid these WVGA quirks you speak of? Or will this only require more RAM, rendering time and increase the amount of issues I have? And why can I edit together a PAL video project with NTSC clips and don't have it fail on me until rendering? If it works, what difference does it make if I make a PAL or an NTSC project? I can still choose between PAL and NTSC at export anyway.

                                          • 18. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                            nealeh Community Member

                                            Right (I wish I was getting paid for this ). It seems that you and I have the same cameras but probably badged under different product names (mine was specific to Argos, a UK retail chain).

                                             

                                            The NTSC / PAL setting you thought was switchable does not affect the cameras recording - it is only to specify the right sort of  TV when you connect the camera to TV via its HDMI port.

                                             

                                            • The 1080p mode can be natively edited in PRE using the NTSC> DSLR> 1080p> DSLR1080p @29.97.
                                            • The 720p mode can be natively edited in PRE using the NTSC> AVCHD> AVCHD LITE720p30 project setting.

                                             

                                            1.png

                                             

                                            Personally I use the 720p setting as it allows the camera stabilization to be switched on (not possible in 1080p mode).

                                             

                                            Out of interest is your camera rubbish indoors? Mine certainly is (although I very rarely use it since getting my Sony).

                                             

                                            Cheers,

                                            --

                                            Neale

                                            Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                            • 19. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                              blooglet Community Member

                                              (I wish I was getting paid for this

                                              Sorry if I took too much of your time there. I'll take all the information you and the rest of the community have provided to me and see if I can make it work.

                                              Out of interest is your camera rubbish indoors? Mine certainly is (although I very rarely use it since getting my Sony).

                                              Mine also has trouble with indoor recordings. I have a Toshiba Camileo P10. It has been my experience that all photo and videos cameras I've had have consistently had trouble shooting indoors, especially when no natural light is available.

                                              • 20. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                                nealeh Community Member

                                                blooglet wrote:

                                                (I wish I was getting paid for this

                                                Sorry if I took too much of your time there. I'll take all the information you and the rest of the community have provided to me and see if I can make it work.

                                                 

                                                Nah - I was only joking. We do this because we all like helping each other out to make using PRE a fun experience.

                                                 

                                                Checked the images of your Toshiba and it looks the same as mine as well.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Cheers,

                                                --

                                                Neale

                                                Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                                • 21. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                                  blooglet Community Member

                                                  Sadly 720p HD doesn't seem to be giving me better results. I haven't tried rendering a big project yet, but I have indications that it won't resolve my problems. I recorded 15 seconds of footage in WVGA and 720p. The presets I chose were AVCHD 720p square pixel 59.94 fps and AVCHD 720p square pixel 29.97 fps respectively. I then created a title, added a certain transition and applied Auto Color to the video footage in both projects.

                                                   

                                                  I've recorded video playback for both videos.

                                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnWRh_L80Q (720p)

                                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kJICgJxU3o (WVGA)

                                                   

                                                  Oh, and when I zoom in on the timeline I always have to wait half a minute for the zooming animation to end:

                                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBBeffoNeq8

                                                   

                                                  YouTube told me that the uploaded footage (taken at 720p with the aforementioned camera) had audio/video sync problems, so it could be that the camera is part of the issue.

                                                  • 22. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                                    nealeh Community Member

                                                    The trouble with YouTube for performance diagnostics is that it encodes the videos again. Can you put one of your original clips and one of your PRE Share clips (small please - my Internet connection is only 896k) on a file sharing site so that I can look at the actual footage produced by the camera + PRE.

                                                     

                                                    Cheers,

                                                    --

                                                    Neale

                                                    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                                    • 23. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                                      blooglet Community Member

                                                      The original 720p clip is at http://www.box.com/s/g3d16jzv1o2ig6t7zb9j. Oddly this file was smaller than the WVGA60 file, even though their length was the same. I tried exporting the WVGA project using preset 'AVCHD - YouTube Widescreen SD' but it got stuck at "Estimated Time Left: 00:00:05" as described earlier. Here's the 720p project as exported with that same preset: http://www.box.com/s/3cb97xmruicbsfx674y5. It's the smallest preset I could find.

                                                      • 24. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                                        nealeh Community Member

                                                        I think maybe the problem is with the camera just not being great indoors or when held hand. I get that sort of graininess with mine indoors. Try a test with some outdoor footage and the camera on a tripod and see how you get on with that.

                                                         

                                                        Anyway here is my YouTube version of your clip. Opening & Closing titles, autocolor effect across whole clip, and lightning effect in the middle.

                                                         

                                                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YHzDooQQM0&feature=youtu.be

                                                         

                                                        DON'T FORGET TO SELECT THE 720P HD VERSION IN THE YOUTUBE QUALITY POP-UP

                                                         

                                                        1.png

                                                         

                                                        Cheers,

                                                        --

                                                        Neale

                                                        Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                                        • 25. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                                          blooglet Community Member

                                                          Okay. Going back to the playback videos I posted (such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnWRh_L80Q), did you notice that Premiere Elements was playing back my video with a severe lag? This is one of the major issues I'm still trying to resolve.

                                                          • 26. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                                            the_wine_snob Community Member

                                                            OK, the first thing that I noticed was the red line above your Clips. What happens, when you hit Enter/Return to Render that Timeline?

                                                             

                                                            Good luck,

                                                             

                                                            Hunt

                                                            • 27. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                                              the_wine_snob Community Member

                                                              See this ARTICLE for more info on Rendering.

                                                               

                                                              Good luck,

                                                               

                                                              Hunt

                                                              • 28. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                                                nealeh Community Member

                                                                This discussion has veered off in all sorts of areas, so can we have a bit of a recap:

                                                                 

                                                                Your initial problem (the crash) was most likely caused by a combination of the wrong project setting and WVGA footage that PRE cannot cope with. Possibly some PC issues as well.

                                                                 

                                                                From the 720p clip you provided PRE10 works with it perfectly using the NTSC> AVCHD> AVCHD LITE720p30 Project Setting.

                                                                 

                                                                I believe your other problems must be PC related rather than PRE10 issues.

                                                                 

                                                                Cheers,

                                                                --

                                                                Neale

                                                                Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children

                                                                • 29. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                                                  blooglet Community Member

                                                                  I disabled desktop composition for Premiere Elements and now the zooming lag (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBBeffoNeq8) is gone. It sucks that a workaround is needed, but if it actually makes it work I'll take it. Bill, rendering the footage made it run smoothly. I wasn't sure if it was normal that the video lagged so much without being rendered first. Oddly enough, the 720p footage was rendered faster than the WVGA60 clip.

                                                                   

                                                                  Going back to my original project file, I think my best bet is to convert all the WVGA60 clips I have to 720p footage. Too bad I have to trim down on the framerate because it made slow motion clips (50% speed) look much less choppy. I'll have to figure out which video converter is best fit for the job. Thanks to the both of you for your advice!

                                                                  • 30. Re: Program crashes when rendering project
                                                                    nealeh Community Member

                                                                    Pleased it worked out for you. I always forget about the desktop composition tip as I haven't ever been badly affected by it.

                                                                     

                                                                    Cheers,

                                                                    --

                                                                    Neale

                                                                    Insanity is hereditary, you get it from your children