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      • 160. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
        areohbee Community Member

        More about contrast, highlights, & shadows:

         

        Contrast slider cross-over point is dynamic, not static. Meaning it varies based on tonal distribution, exposure, blackpoint, ...

         

        def: 'crossover point' is the "mid-point" left of which all tones get darker, and to the right of which all tones get lighter when increasing contrast.

         

        (unlike the tone curve, where all points are static and absolute)

         

        The practical implication is that you can increase contrast in a really dark image and still get tonal separation around the relative midpoint, instead of the whole thing getting darker. Likewise you can increase contrast in a really light image and still get tonal separation around the relative midpoint, instead of the whole thing getting lighter.

         

        Ditto for highlight and shadow sliders. These sliders find the "highlights" and "shadows" at the same relative locations regardless of how the tones occupy the histogram in different images or the same image when exposure and blackpoint change... Thus, if you have a really dark image, lowering or raising highlights is still meaningful, even if there are no "real" highlight tones, and if you have a really light image, lowering or raising shadows is still meaningful, even if there are no real "shadows".

         

        This may be obvious to you, but it was not obvious to me at first (and it's not obvious from the histogram zone rollovers).

         

        R

        • 161. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
          john beardsworth MVP

          Photo_op8 wrote:

           

          "I was going to say more but I lost my train of thought, maybe later... - please stay tuned if you're finding this stuff useful, interesting, or at least entertaining, or pisses you off in a way that makes you feel superior..."

           

          Enough already. Just let this thread die. Posting every two days just to bump it up is getting a little sad!

           

          +1 Even sadder when someone's thinking up this stuff in bed.

          • 162. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
            areohbee Community Member

            Rob Cole wrote:

             

            Thus, if highlights = 0 and shadows = 0 then there will be no type-1 tone enhancements (excepting clarity).

             

            (same is true in Lr3 if fill-light=0 and recovery=0)

             

            In case the point here didn't land...

             

            Often in Lr3 I would do -brightness +fill, even on photos that didn't need any fill, since it would create a richer look (by taking advantage of type-1 tonal enhancements - see above).

             

            In Lr4 if you want to give a little type-1 mid-tonal punch:

             

            +contrast -highlights +shadows.

             

            Equal amounts of each sometimes works pretty good, for example:

             

            contrast: +25

            highlights: -25

            shadows: +25

             

            Or +whites -highlights, if you want a little type-1 highlight tonal punch instead... (hint: -exposure if the histo goes too far rightward, +shadows if it then gets too dark on the left).

             

            (and for the sake of completeness, -blacks +shadows for some "fill", or +exposure -highlights for some "type-1 magic" brightening)

             

            On the flipside, if you want a more neutral and natural look without so much local contrast pizazz, be sure highlights & shadows are equal to zero (you can still use all the other sliders and tone curve, except clarity - as previously mentioned).

             

            If you know you want a maximally punchy image, try this:

            * highlights = -100

            * shadows = +100

            * whites = +30

            * adjust exposure so right end hits the clip point.

            * adjust blacks so left end hits the clip point.

            (contrast to taste (readjust blacks & exposure a little if need be), maybe a little clarity & vib/sat...)

             

            (if photo will take it, you can try whites = 40 or 50, but if whites=30+ makes the midtones too dark, then try 20 or 10, readjusting exposure to hit the clip point)

             

            Yeah now! - stand back, Lr4 comin' through...!!!

             

            R

            • 163. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
              Dave Merchant ACP/MVPs

              Much as it's appreciated to hear the opinions of users about beta products, if this thread continues to degrade into personal insults we will close it. All those posting here are reminded that personal attacks are a violation of the forum terms of use, and may result in your account being suspended.

               

              These forums allow users to talk about Adobe software and related subjects, and nobody said you have to use a question/answer format when posting. Rob's entitled to report on what he is discovering about the new behaviors in LR4 in 'blog style', and if other users don't find it interesting they can simply ignore the posts. I don't have a problem with him replying to his own message if he has something new and relevant to say - that is not "bumping", and is better for the forum structure than posting a new discussion each time.

               

              I'm glad that people are expressing opinions about LR4 (both positive and negative), and without them the products cannot evolve. Feel free to disagree with each other, but keep it professional.

              • 164. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                wdmn Community Member

                Re: getting the mid-tone punch

                Are these arrangements a type of replacement for the previous extreme settings used with clarity and vibrance?

                When these punchy settings are put in place what is the response in the soft proofing?

                Now, I'll open Lightroom and try them out <grin> relative to soft proofing.

                (After much fiddling with printing images completed in Lr4 I'm, finally, going to order a calibration software for monitor and printer to replace the Lutlcurve software and the Win7 provision for monitor settings)

                Rose

                • 165. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                  VeloDramatic Community Member

                  Dave Merchant... thank you, that statement of principle was right on the money.

                  • 166. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                    areohbee Community Member

                    Hi Den,

                     

                    Some comments:

                     

                    Very low detail in both highlights and shadows.

                    If your intent was to focus attention on the "macro chiaroscuro", and not be distracted by detail, then mission accomplished.

                     

                    But just for grins, consider trying another approach for comparison that will result in the same overall contrast, but includes settings that target more "micro-level" contrast/detail too.

                     

                    For example: instead of:

                     

                    exposure = 0

                    contrast = -46

                    highlights -26

                    shadows -96

                    whites -12

                     

                    and a radically contrasty tone curve

                     

                    try something more like (disclaimer: I have not checked these settings, but if you pass me your raw I can better show you what I mean):

                     

                    contrast +80 (or less if you want reduced midtone contrast, or more...).

                    highlights = -70 (I'm just wingin' it here - see disclaimer above) - but the point is more negative than 26, to compensate for other settings that would otherwise overboost and/or reduce detail in the highlights.

                    shadows = +40 (again, see disclaimer, but +whites -exposure will compress shadows, this is compensatory and won't create much intra-shadow contrast).

                    whites = 30 (this will keep your whites bright, and stretch out + pull up the highlights, as well as left-shifting & stretching midtones, plus compressing shadows)

                    exposure = -0.3 (this will keep your mids low)

                    blacks to make it work out...

                     

                    No tone curve should be required, or in any case, only a simpler subtler one.

                     

                    Again, settings completely untried - intended for conceptual purposes only.

                     

                    eh?

                     

                    Rob

                    • 167. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                      areohbee Community Member

                      wdmn wrote:

                       

                      Re: getting the mid-tone punch

                      Are these arrangements a type of replacement for the previous extreme settings used with clarity and vibrance?

                       

                      Not addressing color. But, one of my biggest mistakes in earlier days with Lr4b1 was to use contrast thusly:

                       

                      - Set highs & lows.

                      - Enhance detail in shadows and highlights (by lowering contrast).

                       

                      In Lr3, clarity was often a crutch or bridge to make up for lost midtone contrast lost when lowering contrast in the interest of accomplishing these objectives.

                       

                      L4 has new ways of doing both of these things that work out much better, and allow you or me to use contrast more for defining midtone contrast, i.e.

                       

                      - Set highs & lows using highlight & shadow sliders.

                      - Enhance detail in shadows by -blacks + shadows

                      - Enhance detail in highlights by +whites -exposure -highlights

                       

                      Thus contrast takes on the role more of midtone contrast booster, since it's tendency to boost highs can be mitigated by -highlights, its tendency to drop lows can be mitigated by +shadows.

                       

                      Summary:

                      ------------

                      PV2010 clarity is a midtone contrast enhancer that seeks to not alter the levels of nor compress shadows nor highlights in the process, which is what +contrast -highlights +shadows does in PV2012.

                       

                      R

                      • 168. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                        Lee Jay Community Member

                        Rob Cole wrote:


                        PV2010 clarity is a midtone contrast enhancer ...

                         

                        PV2010 clarity is a LOCAL contrast enhancer.  It's effect is confined spacially, not toneally.

                        • 169. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                          areohbee Community Member

                          I understand how they are not exactly the same, but

                           

                          +contrast -highlights +shadows will produce an effect in some ways more like old clarity than new clarity will, despite new clarity being more like old clarity as LOCAL spacially confined contrast enhancer.

                           

                          I used old clarity (globally) in >50% of photos - it was very much a key part in basic toning for me.

                          I use new clarity (globally) in <10% - I could almost see relegating it to the "effects" section.

                           

                          R

                          • 170. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                            Lee Jay Community Member

                            Rob Cole wrote:

                             

                            I understand how they are not exactly the same, but

                             

                            +contrast -highlights +shadows will produce an effect in some ways more like old clarity than new clarity will, despite new clarity being more like old clarity as LOCAL spacially confined contrast enhancer.

                             

                            I used old clarity (globally) in >50% of photos - it was very much a key part in basic toning for me.

                            I use new clarity (globally) in <10% - I could almost see relegating it to the "effects" section.

                             

                            R

                             

                            Don't forget, Eric has adjusted PV2012 Clarity post-Beta.  So your opinion might change after you get to work with it.

                            • 171. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                              areohbee Community Member

                              Noted. - thanks for the reminder Lee Jay.

                              • 172. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                areohbee Community Member

                                Rob Cole wrote:

                                 

                                If you know you want a maximally punchy image, try this:

                                * highlights = -100

                                * shadows = +100

                                * whites = +30 (+/- 10 or 20).

                                * adjust exposure so right end is near (or past) the clip point.

                                * adjust blacks so left end is near (or past) the clip point.

                                (contrast to taste (readjust blacks & exposure a little if need be), maybe a little clarity & vib/sat...)

                                 

                                 

                                Here's an example photo done with those settings. I've tried them out on several others too.

                                 

                                It's a dead oak tree with some faintly colored spanish moss, taken in not particularly flattering light, properly exposed.

                                 

                                I think you can see how much local contrast "punch" is possible without clarity, via type-1 magic.

                                 

                                Note: 'Max Punch' uses the extreme settings (including contrast=+100). 'Medium Punch' uses halfened values, i.e. same formula, except contrast=+50, highlights=-50, shadows=+50, whites=15 (+/- 5 or 10). Of course exposure needs to be higher when whites is lowered.

                                 

                                Rob

                                • 173. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                  dencoyle Community Member

                                  Rob Cole wrote:

                                   

                                  Hi Den,

                                   

                                  Some comments:

                                   

                                  Very low detail in both highlights and shadows.

                                  If your intent was to focus attention on the "macro chiaroscuro", and not be distracted by detail, then mission accomplished.

                                   

                                  hi rob,,, well i will say that you are as persistent as a pit bull so i'll throw ya a bone

                                   

                                  let me just set this picx up for you,, as it's been mentioned that sometimes you just get lucky,,,

                                  it's twilight on the 23,jan,, -30F probably lower,, high slack tide of 20+ ft, alot! of water has just rolled in the last six hours,,i'm at the mouth of a river which is pouring yet more water and warmer into the inlet,,so what normally would be a vapor fog is an ice fog,,,it's dense!!! gear ? ha! leave it in the truck,,something inevitably wants to break..so it's a warm canon G10 from inside the jacket @ iso200 4.5/125 +1...but spectacular light and contrasting clouds...really sweet..clickitiy click and move on...it's frigid and that sun is down..

                                  so back in lr4 what have you got...so so.it doen't pop out of the camera..but the contrast is there,,just hidden in hte fog...been here before and me being about curves i just rip into it to cut through the ice fog, there's no other way to clear this up and i end up with...

                                  j23.png

                                  ugly yet contrasty ...where do i want to go..well get rid of most of that hideous color first..use non-linear vibrance for saturation adj -100,,left with almost b/w with a ting of metallic copper on the water,,,tweak the color controls to separate the magenta and blues in the clouds,,then used the basics to add more tone separation for this

                                   

                                  j23f.png

                                  added that -contrast after this to darken the top cloud,,, other than printing a proof i haven't finish with this edit ,i've been viewing everything on a 13" mbp, waiting for the final release,,,hopefully this week!! and if we can get this calibration software for this hp2480 monitor of mine out of beta things will be superb.

                                  Rob Cole wrote:

                                   

                                  try something more like (disclaimer: I have not checked these settings, but if you pass me your raw I can better show you what I mean):

                                   

                                  contrast +80 (or less if you want reduced midtone contrast, or more...).

                                  highlights = -70 (I'm just wingin' it here - see disclaimer above) - but the point is more negative than 26, to compensate for other settings that would otherwise overboost and/or reduce detail in the highlights.

                                  shadows = +40 (again, see disclaimer, but +whites -exposure will compress shadows, this is compensatory and won't create much intra-shadow contrast).

                                  whites = 30 (this will keep your whites bright, and stretch out + pull up the highlights, as well as left-shifting & stretching midtones, plus compressing shadows)

                                  exposure = -0.3 (this will keep your mids low)

                                  blacks to make it work out...

                                   

                                  No tone curve should be required, or in any case, only a simpler subtler one.

                                   

                                  you apparently have way more 'vision' with these 'numbers' than i..i need! a picture... well the contrast slider in lr4 appears to me to be the same as lr3 and it doesn't fit my style, too global.... highlights and shadows in lr4 are the cat's meow..i'm just now starting to sense the outrageous subtety of these controls,truely a sweet spot of this software,,,and with the +clarity tied in with the new algorithm,,wow! this is going to be fun!! i know your heavy into the whites and blacks but i'm finding that i'm not using them much for most picx...you really need to use the channels in the point curve and not just for color cast although that is sweet,,,,although they don't have a threshold view option as per photoshop and as the exposure slider does with the option key,,,if you close the basic panel and turn on the the clipping views in the histogram you can set your 'color' clipping points for shadows/highlights while viewing the clipping box in the histogram....really sweet !!! and then of course use the curves to get the overall color as you like,,,,this is a super feature!! ... and i think that you will find that the white slider will be used less if at all,,black is a tad subtler..

                                   

                                  so why don't you snap a foggy view of that golden gate there and "show" what those numbers really are saying !! i think you would give your views sooo much more credence... maybe deflect some of this negativism that runs through this thread....personally i couldn't handle what has been thrown at you...

                                   

                                  all the best, den

                                  • 174. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                    areohbee Community Member

                                    Den,

                                     

                                    Try this:

                                     

                                    Take one of your existing photos (with whites = 0) and do this:

                                     

                                    whites = +30

                                    highlights -30

                                    shadows +30

                                    re-adjust exposure so rightmost end is about the same,

                                    re-adjust point curve so overall tonality is about the same.

                                     

                                    What do you notice?

                                     

                                    (hint: increased highlight detail without loss in midtone or shadow detail)

                                     

                                    You can't do that with the tone curve alone, right?

                                     

                                    Note: It's not the right thing for every photo, but more photos than not can benefit from a free boost in highlight detail, in my experience.

                                     

                                    PS -  I'll respond more to the other stuff later.

                                     

                                    Rob

                                    • 175. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                      areohbee Community Member

                                      More about basic sliders:

                                       

                                      Intro:

                                      ------

                                      This post ignores consideration of type-2 & type-3 magic that are always on in Lr4 (see post above for magic types).

                                       

                                      The biggest deal in new basics are the highlights and whites sliders (this, and everything else I'll say here, is my opinion).

                                       

                                      shadows slider is similar to Lr3 fill, except it's response has been significantly altered to go with new highlights and whites sliders.

                                      -------

                                       

                                      +exposure: like Lr3 +exposure, no type-1 magic.

                                      +exposure -highlights: like Lr3 +brightness, +type-1 magic.

                                      +contrast: like Lr3 +contrast, no type-1 magic.

                                      +contrast -highlights +shadows: like Lr3 clarity, includes type-1 magic (different than Lr3 clarity too, as Lee Jay pointed out in post above).

                                      highlights: no equivalent in Lr3.

                                      whites: no equivalent in Lr3.

                                      +shadows: like Lr3 fill, except with different tonal scope.

                                      +whites -exposure -highlights +shadows: like what +recovery should have been in Lr3, includes type-1 magic. +recovery in Lr3 was more like -whites -highlights.

                                      (don't get me wrong: there are times when -whites is appropriate, but I'd bet my bottom dollar it's being overused in Lr4b1 - e.g. I overused it in the beginning).

                                       

                                      Bonus paragraph:

                                      ----------------------

                                      In Lr3, care needed to be taken increasing contrast or exposure. Fill light could bring up the bottom, somewhat, but recovery was not adequate for restoring highlight detail lost by increasing contrast or exposure. This was Lr3's biggest weakness. This has been solved in Lr4. Highlights slider is quite capable of restoring highlights lost due to increased contrast, or increased exposure, without the flattening inherent in Lr3 recovery, and without losing midtone contrast.

                                       

                                      R

                                      • 176. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                        areohbee Community Member

                                        decoyle wrote:

                                         

                                        ...you really need to use the channels in the point curve and not just for color cast although that is sweet,,,,although they don't have a threshold view option as per photoshop and as the exposure slider does with the option key,,,if you close the basic panel and turn on the the clipping views in the histogram you can set your 'color' clipping points for shadows/highlights while viewing the clipping box in the histogram....really sweet !!! and then of course use the curves to get the overall color as you like,,,,this is a super feature!! ... and i think that you will find that the white slider will be used less if at all,,black is a tad subtler..

                                         

                                        I doubt I will ever consider the tone curves a substitute for the whites slider, for reasons outlined in previous posts.

                                         

                                        But, the channel curves are indeed an awesome new feature. DNG Profile Editor allows me to customize color based on saturation and hue, channel curves allow me to customize color based on luminance. I think I'll get by until Lr5, when they go local - ha-ha!? .

                                         

                                         

                                        decoyle wrote:

                                         

                                        so why don't you snap a foggy view of that golden gate there and "show" what those numbers really are saying !! i think you would give your views sooo much more credence...

                                         

                                        I may or may not do this at some point. Many of the effects are so subtle you can't even see them unless you're at 100% and using the raws. Also, I don't get paid for this! Victoria Bampton is writing a book that will include much of this stuff, with full color examples... - she get's paid for it!!!

                                         

                                        PS - Links to raw packages in previous threads (which did not go well) oopsidentally excluded camera calibration profiles that were critical to evaluation - sorry, my bad. - Next time, I'll try to remember to use DNG and save the cam-cal profiles within the files themselves (otherwise they need to be installed on the user's machine before they can see things properly).

                                         

                                        (reminder: I am also available via PM)

                                         

                                        R

                                        • 177. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                          Jeff Schewe Community Member

                                          It would be useful to start a new thread and let this one wither...at 176 posts it's sort of polluted. Not sure many people will click only to the most recent post and the stuff in between isn't really all that useful for most readers.

                                           

                                          People reading this thread really should start with the most recent posts and then work backwards if they are interested...

                                          • 178. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                            areohbee Community Member

                                            Rob Cole wrote:

                                             

                                            I doubt I will ever consider the tone curves a substitute for the whites slider, for reasons outlined in previous posts.

                                             

                                             

                                            And for reasons not outlined in previous posts:

                                             

                                            The whites slider includes some very sophisticated handling which includes mingling with the auto-highlight recovery - no sir ma'am, can't do that with the point curve! - it's "all over" by then...

                                             

                                            R

                                            • 179. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                              areohbee Community Member

                                              People just getting started with this thread may want to start at the end and work backwards - it has evolved with experience...

                                              • 180. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                                areohbee Community Member

                                                Rob Cole wrote:

                                                 

                                                Regarding the default processing and basic tone controls:

                                                ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---

                                                 

                                                Default processing (automatic shadow/highlight recovery) is awesome, usually. In cases when it's not it can be painstaking (and not always satisfying) to compensate for using basic controls and/or tone curve.

                                                 

                                                I stand by that one, except over time, I've found it much easier and satisfying to compensate for shadow recovery using the tone curve. I still curse occasionally, when "fighting" with the auto-highight recovery.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Rob Cole wrote:

                                                 

                                                     - One can not make successive refinements, where each gets you closer to the goal. Sometimes you have to make corrections that goof up much of what you've already done, then settle everything back in, and then do it again. For example, one may need to increase exposure in order to have a little more "fill light". That will destroy all the work you've already done on the highlights, necessitating readjustment. I see this as a fundamental design flaw. And no, one can not always predict the proper exposure up front, when the proper setting means a massively blown out top end, for example. You must see what happens with the rest of your settings, in order to know what the proper exposure is.

                                                 

                                                After more experience, I can now get to the result I want faster in Lr4 than Lr3. It does indeed take multiple slider twiddles and iteration, but I know what to do. Secrets of success:

                                                 

                                                - Getting use to adjusting exposure for midtones.

                                                - Using +contrast more for defining midtone contrast, instead of setting lows/highs, and not using -contrast to expand highlights & shadows.

                                                - Not getting attached to values for highlights and shadows - they vary all over the map in response to changes in exposure, contrast, & whites sliders.

                                                - Getting used to the local adaptive enhancement stuff. Mostly I really like it, but I'm not afraid to take a brush to it when there are areas that are not agreeing with me.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Rob Cole wrote:

                                                 

                                                     - Too many of my photos end up with most tones good, but one or two tones are off. And there seems to be no good way to correct it without a lot of fiddling, tone curve, or locals. The reason is obvious if you adjust the various controls and watch their behavior in the histogram. Even if the tones in the photo click really nicely with PV2012 (and >50% do), it's possible to see the potential for trouble - for example, the adjustment of highlights and shadows do not have a smooth and organic blending with the adjacent zones. Maybe this can be corrected with some tweaks, but it definitely needs to be corrected.

                                                 

                                                2 kinds of problems:

                                                1 - Due to lack of experience on my part - mostly solved by now via correct use of basics, and not being reluctant to use the wonderful new locals. Compensatory tone curves are generally simple shapes and easy to do now, once basics are adjusted correctly.

                                                2 - Due to problems in beta #1. I know Eric is aware of some of them, and I hope he is aware of all of them, and working on them...

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Rob Cole wrote:

                                                 

                                                Recommendation to others:

                                                ----------------------------------

                                                Make up your own mind about it.

                                                 

                                                I stand by that one, unconditionally.

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                 

                                                Rob Cole wrote:

                                                 

                                                Recommendation to others:

                                                ----------------------------------

                                                ...I can not, in good conscience, recommend Lightroom 4 to anyone at this point. The big print giveth, but the small print taketh away...

                                                 

                                                Assuming Eric fixes the "trouble points", I will be strongly recommending Lr4 to everyone. It has definitely been tricky to learn to be proficient, but once it clicks, spectacular results are achievable quickly, (or less spectacular results if you're after a more old-school photographic look ).

                                                 

                                                 

                                                I'm willing to forgive all the neglect of library module and various other bugs and shortcomings for the improvements to image quality and stuff in the develop module. - but please don't neglect the SDK Adobe!!!

                                                 

                                                 

                                                PS - for me, performance and stability have been better than any other beta yet. There's room for improvement, but relatively good...

                                                 

                                                Rob

                                                • 181. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                                  Lee Jay Community Member

                                                  Rob Cole wrote:

                                                   

                                                  It has definitely been tricky to learn to be proficient, but once it clicks, spectacular results are achievable quickly,

                                                   

                                                  Advise from above, when you were being highly negative:

                                                   

                                                  "...you've spent years and years getting used to and comfortable with PV2010 and PV2003.  You've spent only weeks messing with PV2012.  You can't expect to learn all the tricks that quickly."

                                                   

                                                  You might have saved yourself (and all of us) a good bit of negativity by just listening to that advice in the first place.

                                                  • 182. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                                    areohbee Community Member

                                                    Lee Jay wrote:

                                                     

                                                    ...when you were being highly negative...

                                                     

                                                    Perhaps you've mistaken honesty for negativity...

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Lee Jay wrote:

                                                     

                                                    "...you've spent years and years getting used to and comfortable with PV2010 and PV2003.  You've spent only weeks messing with PV2012.  You can't expect to learn all the tricks that quickly."

                                                     

                                                    You were right.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Lee Jay wrote:

                                                     

                                                    You might have saved yourself (and all of us) a good bit of negativity by just listening to that advice in the first place.

                                                     

                                                    I need to experience things for myself.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    If you never change your mind, how do you know you have one?

                                                    • 183. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                                      areohbee Community Member

                                                      Rob Cole wrote:

                                                       

                                                      Secrets of success:

                                                       

                                                      - Getting use to adjusting exposure for midtones.

                                                      - Using +contrast more for defining midtone contrast, instead of setting lows/highs, and not using -contrast to expand highlights & shadows.

                                                      - Not getting attached to values for highlights and shadows - they vary all over the map in response to changes in exposure, contrast, & whites sliders.

                                                      - Getting used to the local adaptive enhancement stuff. Mostly I really like it, but I'm not afraid to take a brush to it when there are areas that are not agreeing with me.

                                                       

                                                      Add:

                                                       

                                                      - Using the TAT tool of the tone curve. Whether to adjust exposure, shadows, or highlights, often depends on assessment of whether various tones are shadows, midtones, or highlights.

                                                       

                                                      fingers crossed for having that info ever-present in the histogram.

                                                       

                                                      Assuming Eric fixes some things, things most likely to drive me back to PV2010 are, in this order:

                                                      1 - Need to disable auto-highlight recovery.

                                                      2 - Desire for an "unenhanced look" that excludes the type-2 magic (see post above for magic types).

                                                       

                                                      R

                                                      • 184. Re: Lightroom 4 beta #1 test complete - final results.
                                                        Dave Merchant ACP/MVPs

                                                        Sorry folks, but with yet more reported instances of personal insults, this thread is now locked.

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