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1. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
Averdahl Jan 7, 2011 7:16 AM (in response to Averdahl)I tried to import the menues as MPEG2, transcoded with AME using the default MPEG2 Blu-ray preset but they get re-transcoded as well when building the BR disc. The interesting thing is that when Encore re-transcode the menues it transcode it at a higher bit rate than the default MPEG2 Blu-ray, and uses N=12 instead of the default N=15 for the GOP Settings.
I even tried to use that very re-transcoded motion menu asset found in the Sources\Menus folder in a new project, but it got re-transcoded as well...
I even tried to use the original menues that are in the CineForm codec and when using H.264 settings in Encore the motion menues are transcoded to MPEG2 while the Button Transitions are transcoded to H.264. It seems to me like all motion menues *must* be MPEG2 for some reason. What i dont get is why it is like this, and why Encore re-transcodes already BR compliant assets.
It is insane to re-transcode already BR compliant MPEG2 or H.264 assets for motion menues while Button Transitions and the Timelines are left untouched since they are BR compliant. It happens with 720p50 and 1080i50 material.
I have not yet filed any bug report since i dont know if this is supposed to happen.
So, is this a bug or a feature?
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2. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
Jeff Bellune Jan 7, 2011 8:21 AM (in response to Averdahl)Hi Roger,
Are you adding text, buttons or graphics to your motion menu in En? Or are you using existing text/buttons/graphics and just replacing the menu background with the video?
If you're doing either of those things, then what you are seeing is expected because En has to composite all of those menu elements over the video to produce a new menu video that contains the composited elements. When a menu is displayed by a DVD player, the menu is simply a flattened MPEG2 video layer (even if the background is a still image and not a video). The subpicture highlights that the audience uses to navigate are generated by the player; they're not composited into the menu.
The way to avoid re-transcoding is to create a "highlights only" menu. Composite all of your menu elements in AE, including the background video, and use that as the new motion background for the menu in En. Then add *only* subpicture highlight layers to your menu, and En should *not* re-transcode the background video.
-Jeff
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3. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
Jon Geddes Jan 7, 2011 8:46 AM (in response to Jeff Bellune)Actually this is a known issue with Encore. It will always transcode HD menus to mpeg2, regardless of your project settings.
There is actually a method to get around this and have h264 menus. This is copy/pasted from the Doom9 forums:
1. Wire up the BluRay.
2. Build the disc at least once.
This will make all the tmp media. Look in <project>/Sources/Menus/ and you will see the m2v file used for the background. This is the file we want to replace.3. Save and close Encore.
4. Encode the background video as a m4v using Media Encoder.
5. Open <project>/ProjectMedia.acx and search for the m2v file.
6. Edit following PhysicalMedia data
a. 'file' to point to the m4v file.
b. 'size' to match the new m4v file size.
c. 'codec' to be "H.264".7. Save the file.
8. Reopen the project and rebuild the disc. Fingers crossed it should now use the h.264 file.
I have noticed that Encode likes to randomly delete and change it's mind about cached files. So be aware that the edits you make may revert back with little warning. You may also find you need to manually delete the <project>/AuthorScriptHDMVSessions dir. -
4. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
Averdahl Jan 7, 2011 9:10 AM (in response to Jeff Bellune)Jeff, thank you for your answer!
The video+text to the menues are composited in AE and the .psd's are indeed "highlights only". This is the same workflow i have done with DVD's to be able to preview my motion menues in real time without having to use the "Render motion menues" command all the time.
So, all text are flattened in the video and the .pds's are "highlights only", ie only (+) and (=1). I have not added any content from the Library panel in Encore, nor added some text in either Encore or Photoshop. Thats why i think this is a mystery.
I just tried to use the CineForm .avi's and did choose the Transcode settings manually this time, but it did not change anything; The motion menu are rendered to MPEG while the button transitions are trandscoded to H.264.
And, i now noticed that the Build dialog says Rendering when re-transcoding the menues while it says Transcoding when En transcode the button transitions CineForm avi.s. It seems that no matter format, .avi, H.264 or MPEG2 the motion meues are rendered to MPEG2 for some compability thing.
I took one of the rendered menues from the Sources\Menus and re-rendered it with some text on it in Pr and then replaced it to see if it is actually used in the disc, for preives-only or on the disc. This time En failed to open that file, so it seems that it *must* be in a specific not documented format. If not, the Br disc fails to either burn or fail to create an image file.
/Roger
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5. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
Averdahl Jan 7, 2011 9:10 AM (in response to Jon Geddes)Jon, i will try that later.
For now i have used the CineForm files directly in En and transcode them to MPEG2 menues instead of H.264 while the timelines are H.264. (I have not yet tested to burn, so i dont know yet if En goes bananas when i use MPEG2 menues while using H.264 media on the timelies. I dont think it should matter though...)
To be continued...
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6. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
Jon Geddes Jan 7, 2011 9:10 AM (in response to Averdahl)It will not have issues with mpeg2 menus and h264 videos. You can mix and match all different codecs, resolutions, framerates on a Blu-ray disc without any issues.
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7. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
Averdahl Jan 7, 2011 9:11 AM (in response to Jon Geddes)Thanks, you just saved my day!
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8. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
gregstephen Mar 19, 2012 10:45 AM (in response to Averdahl)Hi,
Is it possible to replace the .m2v video (encoded by Encore 25VBR) by my video .m2v cbr 30Mb.
Thanks
Steph
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9. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
Jon Geddes Mar 19, 2012 10:59 AM (in response to gregstephen)Steph,
If your video or motion menu background are Blu-ray compliant, and do not require rendering, then you can load the pre-transcoded 30 mbps asset instead of letting Encore encode your asset. However, 30 mbps is very high for a burned Blu-ray disc and you could experience playback issues on some players. I would recommend leaving it at 25 mbps.
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10. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
gregstephen Mar 19, 2012 11:36 AM (in response to Jon Geddes)Thanks Jon,
Yes It's a legal motion menu background .m2v cbr 30MB (do not require rendering by encore).
But Encore transcoded it, in the menu folder of encore project in .m2v when I burned it. No transcode folder.
And the compression is bad.So I would like to know if I could replace the transcode in menu folder by mine.
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11. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
Jon Geddes Mar 19, 2012 12:36 PM (in response to gregstephen)Do you have only highlight layers for the PSD of the menu? If there are any text or non-button-highlight layers, the menu will be rendered and transcoded by Encore.
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12. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
gregstephen Mar 19, 2012 1:20 PM (in response to Jon Geddes) -
13. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
Jon Geddes Mar 19, 2012 1:25 PM (in response to gregstephen)You might want to try rasterizing your highlight layer and delete the Calque 1 layers. Only the (=1) highlight layer should exist in each button group for your menu. If you need to expand the clickable area of the button, you can follow my tutorial here...
http://www.precomposed.com/blog/2011/11/changing-buttons-clickable-area/
Try those modifications to your PSD file and see if that resolves the re-transcoding of your menu.
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14. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
gregstephen Mar 19, 2012 3:02 PM (in response to Jon Geddes) -
15. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
Jon Geddes Mar 19, 2012 3:14 PM (in response to gregstephen)I wonder if it is because your 'Background' layer is not a real background. Try selecting your background layer, then at the top, go to 'Layer > New > Background from Layer'. See if that works.
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16. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
gregstephen Mar 20, 2012 7:49 AM (in response to Jon Geddes)No; I tried too (background)...When I let only highlight button Encore don't want that I transcode menu by the file panel.
But Encore transcoded it in menu folder!Strange,I created a new project,
I imported in presets the black HD menu, with no button, no layer, only background layer.
And Encore re-transcoded again.
I imported the transcoded motion menu that Encore did (maybe if it was my m2v).
But Encore did it again.
I encoded my HD .m2v to SD .m2v.
I opened a DVD project,
I imported my sd .m2v as motion menu with as menu in presets black sd menu.
I built and Encore didn't re-trancode it.
I'm lost...
And you, when you create a B--R project, what's happen?
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17. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
Jon Geddes Mar 20, 2012 9:44 AM (in response to gregstephen)You say the quality of the 25 mbps re-transcoded background looks bad? I've found that the quality looks pretty good at 25 mbps. Maybe it's caused by the double transcoding the background is going through. Have you imported a full quality Quicktime Animation codec or Uncompressed video and see how it looks when Encore transcodes? Also, have you tried changing the default transcode settings for the project?
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18. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
gregstephen Mar 20, 2012 10:07 AM (in response to Jon Geddes)Sure 25 VBR on my 30 CBR, it's not better.
It's a complexe animation AE (with light and shadow).
The problem is not a normal compression (Encore didn't see the compression - see the attached picture on the top).
When I change the compression in setting nothing change, always VBR 25Mb.
I think the setting of transcoding is for not legal video.
And Encore create them in transcode folder.
I don't think that I can change the compression of animation menu.
I think it's two different thing. -
19. Re: Blu-ray - Why are H.264 motion menues re-transcoded to MPEG2?
gregstephen Mar 20, 2012 2:43 PM (in response to gregstephen)OK I understood.
I imported directly my AE comp as motion menu (dynamic link).Encore doesn't ask to me to transcode my compo, because I put it as motion menu.
So Encore transcoded my motion menu in menu folder in 25 VBR.
When you put a video to a motion menu no matter if it's legal or not.There is no transcoding (transcode folder).
But every motion menu will be transcoded in 25 VBR.
Thanks Jon.







