17 Replies Latest reply: Mar 29, 2012 11:23 AM by Nina_Storm RSS

    Font don’t print

    Nina_Storm Community Member

      We bought a font for a specific job, and from InDesign it prints without problems, but none of the default pdf options make a printable pdf.

      Our postscript printer will not print pages containing the font.

       

      The only way to make it print a pdf is a transparency flattening which makes all text outlines.

       

      Can you tell me if we need to do the outline flattener trick, or something easier is possible?

       

      Font specs attached.

       

      Best regards :-)

       

      SpudATTaffy.jpg

        • 1. Re: Font don’t print
          Daniel Flavin Community Member

          The summary indicates that embedding is allowed. Have you checked the Properties in Acrobat to verify that the font is embedded?

          • 2. Re: Font don’t print
            Nina_Storm Community Member

            Shouldn’t this be ok:

            embedded.jpg

            • 3. Re: Font don’t print
              Daniel Flavin Community Member

              Yup - and your print is incorrect?

              • 4. Re: Font don’t print
                Nina_Storm Community Member

                Neither our old postscript printer (about 5 years old Xerox) and our half year old (Agfa?) will print pages containing the font.

                 

                If the textbox is removed it prints fine.

                 

                The text has no effects or transparency applied.

                 

                If I create a transparency flattener preset which outlines all text it will print, but this solution might cause problems in the long run because of the workflow (…)

                • 5. Re: Font don’t print
                  Daniel Flavin Community Member

                  And the file prints correctly from InDesign...

                  Is Acrobat fully patched?

                   

                  If it prints properly from another system, I would look at Acrobats configuration.

                  If it fails on multiple stations, I would think this needs to be taken up with the font vendor.

                  Can you share the file (PM my, click my avatar at your discretion, to send a private message)

                  • 6. Re: Font don’t print
                    Nina_Storm Community Member

                    Thank you for your engagement - I send you an InDesign file which we have used as test and a PDFX/-4 pdf which we haven’t been able to print.

                     

                    4 different persons on different Mac workstations tried withour result.

                     

                    We have had problems updating the most recent Acrobat 9 update, I am not sure if it is done on any of the 4 workstations in question.

                     

                    • 7. Re: Font don’t print
                      Daniel Flavin Community Member

                      There seems to be a problem with either the font SpudAFTatty.ttf or Acrobat's handling of it.

                      InDesign properly printed the file, and properly handled a placed pdf containing the font.

                       

                      Acrobat 9.5.0 and Adobe Reader 8  failed to print the font at all. The first document used the SpudAFTatty font and SpudAFCrisp, in that order.

                      I created new documents with the SpudAFCrisp set before SpudAFTatty, SpudAFCrisp printed correctly, SpudAFTatty did not print and my Bizhub Pro 5500 with a Fiery RIP shot out an error log page.

                       

                      From Acrobat's Print Dialog, Advanced features, I deselected Convert TrueType to Type1. The file then printed correctly.

                       

                      I do not think there is reasonable expectation to relay this information to potential end users, service providers, and whomever with certainty; but that is the best fix I find.

                       

                      I think I recall Dov Issacs (?) mentioning an update to this feature in AA 10; it could have been a different obscure Advanced feature however.

                       

                      Edit - I hope there is no sensitive data in the screen shot, English is my only language.

                      PM Peter Spier or Bob Levine if this needs removal.

                       

                      [screen capture deleted by request]

                       

                      Message was edited by: Daniel Flavin

                      • 8. Re: Font don’t print
                        MW Design MVP

                        The letter H as used in the design itself has 12,621 nodes in it and in the above screen shot is used twice. The lowercase f has 6,004 points. The lowercase v has 3,500 nodes. And so on. Just those three letters have one heck of a lot of nodes.

                         

                        fwiw, I PDF'd a full specimen sheet from ID and it went through a Xerox and my ancient HP 4MV just fine using Acrobat Pro 9.

                         

                        Take care, Mike

                        • 9. Re: Font don’t print
                          Dov Isaacs Adobe Employee

                          In Acrobat 10, we removed the stupid Convert TrueType to Type 1 option simply because it made no sense. If you have a PostScript device that supports Type 42 fonts (i.e., TrueType fonts in a PostScript environment), there is no go reason to convert same to unhinted Type 1 fonts. The printer simply doesn't need such a conversion and whenever a conversion of this nature is required, there is always the chance of something going wrong ... which was apparently the case here.

                           

                          Quite frankly, there hasn't been a new PostScript printer sold in the last fourteen years or more that doesn't handle TrueType fonts natively. That's why we removed the option for Acrobat 10. If you are printing to an ancient PostScript Level 2 printer that doesn't support TrueType (although most PostScript Level 2 printers do support native TrueType including all the LaserJet 4M, 5M, and 6M products), we silently continue to do that conversion of TrueType fonts. In this particular case, if  you had such an ancient printer and this particular font (which by the way seems ridiculously complex if a single glyph has thousands of nodes in its definition), you would still see a failure.

                           

                                   - Dov

                          • 10. Re: Font don’t print
                            MW Design MVP

                            I went ahead and bought the font just to see how complex it was. Exporting the letters I mentioned above as EPS files and taking them into Illustrator, they could have been simplified easily. The node count was from Illy's Path Simplify window. Depending on the character there was between a 50% to 65% node reduction before any particular glyph began to  loose noticeable detail.

                             

                            The font author could have had a much cleaner, albeit still complex, font with little extra effort during his digitizing of the design.

                             

                            Take care, Mike

                            • 11. Re: Font don’t print
                              Nina_Storm Community Member

                              Thank you all for helping, for now I will go using Daniels tip "Uncheck converting".

                               

                              I appreciate all of your very clever contributions.

                               

                              :-) Nina Storm

                              • 12. Re: Font don’t print
                                Nina_Storm Community Member

                                I have an additional question about this font, and others having similar specs.

                                 

                                Open Type (True type flavored) - what does that mean?

                                 

                                I think it means a kind of converted True Type, not created as an Open type font. But I don't know, do you?

                                 

                                Nina Storm

                                • 13. Re: Font don’t print
                                  BobLevine UGM-MVPs

                                  Incorrect. It’s every bit an opentype font.

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  About the only way to tell the difference is by the file extension. TTF for TrueType “flavor” vs the standard OTF.

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  Bob

                                  • 14. Re: Font don’t print
                                    Daniel Flavin Community Member

                                    Bob - I read an excellent article within the last 90 days on OT vs TT, it may have been a blog.

                                    Did I get that source link form these forumns or ID Secrets...don't suppose you know which article it was...

                                     

                                    The Myths of Open Type I think

                                     

                                    Message was edited by: Daniel Flavin

                                    • 15. Re: Font don’t print
                                      [Jongware] MVP

                                      Nina, it has nothing to do with conversion of any kind.

                                       

                                      "OpenType" is a wrapper name for two different sets of font outlines -- two that have been competing for years, now finally unified into a single type. Well, sort of, anyway ... (Imagine a single file format that "unifies" Illustrator and InDesign documents -- and the very first byte inside that file tells you if it "is" an InDesign document or Illustrator drawing. It's something like that. But user software should not be able to tell whether it got one type of font outlines or another, so from that point of view there "is" no difference.)

                                       

                                      Between TrueType and Type 1 OpenType files there are lots of minor differences (internally, TrueType requires more data tables than Type 1 -- but, again, nothing you'd usually notice as a user), and one pretty major difference.

                                       

                                      In a Type 1 font (a.k.a. "CFF", for "Compact Font Format") all characters are internally described by a simplified version of PostScript. In ye olden days, it meant that for every single character that got drawn, your trusty old PostScript printer simply reset a few values -- scale, transformations -- and "ran" the tiny PostScript program describing that single character. When it was done, the PS printer restored what values it changed and continued with the rest of the PostScript commands it encountered.

                                       

                                      A TrueType font, on the other hand, does not really define "line here, curve there", but is more like a very small computer program which return a set of lines to be filled as "output". The major advantage over PS fonts was that this little program could be instructed to "round" values towards actual pixel coordinates, meaning that on a very small size, each of the defined points for lines and curves could 'snap' to the nearest pixel. That meant those fonts could be optimized for screen usage; on the other hand, when printing, this rounding is so infinitesimally small that it's virtually unnoticeable on a 600 dpi printer.

                                       

                                      A similar "screen hinting" mechanism is also part of the CFF specifications, by the way, so for a well designed and hinted font you ought not to see any visual difference on screen.

                                       

                                      There is a technical aspect involved as well; PostScript fonts use 3nd order Bezier curves (cubic), TrueType fonts use 2nd order Bezier curves (quadratics). Cubic Beziers can be converted to quadratics without any loss of precision, but not the other way around. Much like you can draw a rectangle out of triangles, but not the reverse

                                      Usually there is no visible loss of quality after such a conversion (unless someone killed or mangled the different types of hinting, of course).

                                       

                                      As Dov says, for any modern 21st century system, conversion should never be necessary. In the past, TrueType fonts had a bad reputation -- but current viewpoint on that is that was just because there were lots of sub-quality amateur TrueType fonts; most serious font foundries created their fonts as Type 1. It's a fair guess that was because the professional output devices of that time were in fact powered by PostScript. Which was, incidentally, the very foundation of Adobe's success.

                                      • 16. Re: Font don’t print
                                        [Jongware] MVP

                                        Daniel, you must mean Ralf Hermann's OpenType myths explained.

                                        • 17. Re: Font don’t print
                                          Nina_Storm Community Member

                                          Jongware, I love and appreciate your explanations - making heavy content a fairy tale is a gift or great ability :-)