5 Replies Latest reply on Apr 17, 2012 2:26 PM by Daniel Flavin

    Crop Marks Inaccurate and do not match document size.

    Jack Ball

      8.5 x 11 acrobat file.

      There is no scaling.

      When printed to HP5500, or Xerox 7500, the crop marks measure 10.6 x 8.22.

      This dimension changes depending on what STYLE of crop marks are selected in the ADVANCED section of the print dialog box.

      This happens with Acrobat 7Pro and with Acrobat 9Pro.

      This must be an issue with this file because it is repeatable on 2 different printers and with 2 versions of acrobat.


      How does acrobat decide where to put the crop marks?

      The DOCUMENT BOXES are:

      Crop = 8.5x11

      TrimBox = 7.99x10.34

      BleedBox = 7.99x10.34

      ArtBox = 7.99x10.34



      So how may I output this file on an 12 x 18 sheet and have accurate crop marks print at 8.5 x 11?

        • 1. Re: Crop Marks Inaccurate and do not match document size.
          Daniel Flavin Level 4

          Acrobat's Crop marks should be positioned to the Trim Defination. This is a case where different uses of the term Crop do not seem sensible.

          Off the top of my head, I cannot quickly set up a file with those bleed/art/trim dimensions to test, ...

          ok, i get the same results with those definitions.  Crop Pages > Change Page Size > Fixed Page Size > Letter

          Retains the original Trim - 30 minutes later.

          From the Preflight Panel > Create a Fixup (Top Right)

          Study my example

          AA New Fixup - Trim.JPG

          • 2. Re: Crop Marks Inaccurate and do not match document size.
            Jack Ball Level 1

            Another file today

            All document boxes show 8.5x11. page diaplays at 8.5x11.


            Cropmarks print approx 1/2 down into the copy. L&R appear OK. I manually set all document boxes to zero, all sizes changed to 9.5x12. Cropmarks print at 9.5x12. So somewhere sometime someone cropped this document and Acrobat is not placing cropmarks at the new trimmed size.


            I looked at your example however I have no subcategory titled "PAGES"

            From which version are your screen shots?

            There must be a preflight script that can catch this or change this. Perhaps with PitStop?

            If we need to manually do this to every page of every file supplied it would kill our production.

            Once a page is cropped why do the cropmarks not output to the cropped location? The cropped size is correct but the position is wrong.

            • 3. Re: Crop Marks Inaccurate and do not match document size.
              Daniel Flavin Level 4

              My screens are from AA 9 Professional.

              Shown in my shot, and in your dialog, is the Find Dialog which may get you to the Set Pages Geometry Box catagory.


              As I wrote previously, and I'll admit it is mis-leading, Acrobat places the Crop Marks to the Trim definition. (Crop marks has become the standard term for Trim marks. In a lifetime in the industry no one has said "Trim Marks" in a pressroom or near the cutter. But you do not crop paper, you trim it. (Ok, we have never said "trim the paper" either))


              I would be curious to understand how you are receiving files where the crop is not the same as trim. I was able to replicate it, but had to force it through Acrobat's Crop Pages > Change Page Size, but files exported from InDesign, Corel, Illy, what not, do not have this mis-match. Are you processing these files through a script, watched folder? In your original post, I would have thought the proper trim would not be 8.5 x 11, but the smaller dimension defined in the Trim.


              You're workflow seems to be gang running to save click costs, but I'm not certain about the actual trim.

              • 4. Re: Crop Marks Inaccurate and do not match document size.
                Jack Ball Level 1

                I think whoever is generating the files is exporting or printing to pdf with a 1" oversize page setup. 8.5x11=9.5x12

                Then someone else is cropping the file. How is the cropping done? We don't know. Using acrobat's crop tool? Using Pit Stop's crop tool? Another third party plug-in?

                These files are actually only at a preflight stage. The order entry people need to see what it is and how to write it up for construction (business forms). They then see that crops marks are trimming into copy and alarm flags go off. The pdf is eventually placed into an indd template with the the called for construction. (perfs, stubs, punches, numbering etc.)

                We rarely have positioning problems when we select "crop to trim" when importing.

                Now the problem is if I set the document boxes to zero as I mentioned, the order entry people have the same but opposite problem. Inaccurate marks 1" LARGER than they are supposed to be.


                The original post was 8.5 x 11 document but the art box,, the actual stuff on the page was 7.99x10.34. In that case I think the artist was being lazy and wanted to take an 8.5 x 11 and add bleed to it. The intent would have been to stretch distort the 7.99x10.34 to 8.5 x 11 when placing the pdf in indd. But none of this explaing why, when printing a pdf from acrobat, the marks we get on the paper (in some cases), do not match what we see on the screen or are not in the correct place. Where is acrobat getting the information to create these marks?

                • 5. Re: Crop Marks Inaccurate and do not match document size.
                  Daniel Flavin Level 4

                  One thing we agree on, when placeing a file into InDesign, Trim is almost always accurate to what I expect. (File > Place - Show Import Options - Crop to > Trim)


                  What we are not in aggreement on is where Acrobat is placing the crops when using Advanced > Trim Marks. The trim marks are retaining the trim defined before the Crop attribute was defined at a larger size.


                  So far, I don't believe you have crop marks into copy area. It sounds like your order entry is seeing a dimension larger than the intended final product if Place to Trim within InDesign is correct..

                  Call the persons submittting the files; there's no end to the ways old habits can mess up current advancements.