14 Replies Latest reply: Apr 17, 2012 10:00 AM by _durin_ RSS

    I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!

    stevefoobar2 Community Member

      Someone at Adobe is a complete fool!  You completely screwed up Audition since purchasing it from the original developers and now CS5.5 has removed many of the solid features people like myself have been using since Cool Edit 96!

       

      I am done with Adobe and won't purchase your products any longer.

        • 1. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
          Todd_Kopriva Adobe Employee

          Have you seen this thread about improvements in Audition CS6?

          http://forums.adobe.com/thread/988645

          It gives details about a lot of features re-implemented in the new version, plus much more.

          • 2. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
            stevefoobar2 Community Member

            That does look impressive but the fact that they would bother to mess with the software in previous versions so seemingly randomly and without regard to those that have been using it for 15 years is beyond me.

            • 3. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
              Bob Howes MVP

              Well, I think it's necessary to talk separately about Adobe generally and the small team of people who work on Audition.

               

              Adobe is a big company, far bigger than Syntrillium ever was.  With size comes inertia and inflexibility.  Where Syntrillium could release software "when it was ready", Adobe have "release cycles" and inflexible release dates.  Audition CS5.5 fell foul of these release dates.

               

              The reason I say I differentiate between Adobe and the Audition developers is that the developers were as open and up front about the limitations of CS5.5 before it came out.  The time had come for a bottom-up re-write of the software and there simply wasn't time to do the whole thing in a time scale that matched Adobe.  They've posted threads like this one:  http://forums.adobe.com/thread/838570?tstart=90 that explain how they got backed into the corner they found themselves in.  Because of the broad hints they dropped, I was careful to use the free trial facility on CS5.5--and, in the end, I stuck with AA3 for another year.

               

              By the same token, the developers have also given us a lot of advance knowledge of what we can expect in CS6 (more than I've ever seen before from Adobe) and, so far, it sounds good.  The deal breakers that caused me to stick with AA3 are all restored (though everyone has different priorities) and there are also some new features I'm itching to get my hands on as soon as I can download the trial.

               

              So, although I have no love for Adobe, I have respect for the small team of Audition developers (some from Syntrillium by the way) who have always been the good guys.  Looked at another way, I wonder if a small company like Syntrillium would have been able to invest the time, money and resources in keeping going with Cool Edit.  We'll never know.

               

              ....but from what I've read about CS6 I'm interested and certainly going to give it a go.

              • 4. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
                SteveG(AudioMasters) Community Member

                stevefoobar2 wrote:

                 

                That does look impressive but the fact that they would bother to mess with the software in previous versions so seemingly randomly and without regard to those that have been using it for 15 years is beyond me.

                Do you seriously think that Adobe would survive if they did things like that? You have to bear in mind that Audition is basically commercial software used in the past primarily by broadcasters - a situation that started fairly early on with Cool Edit, incidentally. I can absolutely promise you that there's nothing random at all about the way it's been developed, despite your concerns. The people that get listened to are the representatives of companies who will be purchasing seats, possibly running into four figures. So whilst we, as individuals, are listened to politely, the reality is that unless we suggest things that the broadcasters, etc also want or would find useful, they probably won't be included.

                 

                And nothing has permanently been 'removed', either; there is quite a list of things that weren't included in CS5.5, but that was because it was a new dual-platform app developed within a specific timescale. What was delivered was pretty solid, but if the developers tried to include the whole of what was in Audition 3, then it certainly wouldn't have been. The only real mistakes that were made were by the marketing dept, who didn't quite realise how noisy the backlash would be, caused by developing it like this (despite being warned...). But this has been discussed ad nausiem before - try reading around the forum a bit. To a large extent though, Adobe can afford to ignore all the ranting, because it's not coming from the major purchasers. So they keep this forum open so that people like you can make a huge fuss about it, and then hopefully calm down a bit.

                 

                And unlike a lot of other DAW manufacturers, Adobe let you keep multiple versions of Audition on one machine, so that you don't really have to lose out at all while they redevelop the app for the 21st Century - all the previous versions still work fine.

                • 5. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
                  stevefoobar2 Community Member

                  Steve and Bob, very interesting and valid replies.  Yes, I realize that it's mostly used (or perhaps was used) by commercial broadcasters and scientists actually but I think that's changed substantially over the years and may no longer be a valid claim.  I wasn't aware of all the "disclaimers" and hints and such dropped by the development team so you can imagine my shock when I learned of this after using it since Cool Edit 96.  No doubt a lot is lost when a small company like Syntrillium gets swallowed by a company like Adobe.  Based on your inputs, I'll wait to see what happens in CS6.  In the mean time, I certainly have my Cool Edit Pro 1.5 which I believe may have been the last Syntrillium release and it works in Windows 7. 

                  • 6. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
                    SteveG(AudioMasters) Community Member

                    stevefoobar2 wrote:

                     

                    Steve and Bob, very interesting and valid replies.  Yes, I realize that it's mostly used (or perhaps was used) by commercial broadcasters and scientists actually but I think that's changed substantially over the years and may no longer be a valid claim. 

                    Not much scientific use other than for file manipulation (speaking from personal experience), but very much it's used by broadcasters currently. And no it hasn't substantially changed its usage pattern at all. If anything, I suspect that type of activity has increased - it's also used in film and video production quite extensively (even in stuff you may have come across..). Home users constitute a very small percentage of the usership.

                     

                    No doubt a lot is lost when a small company like Syntrillium gets swallowed by a company like Adobe. 

                    Syntrillium didn't get 'swallowed' at all. The simple fact of the matter was that they couldn't afford to go on developing the product in their own right - so MD Bob cast around to see who was interested in perhaps developing the major assets - which included Cool Edit, and the development team (including David Johnston). And Adobe bought the lot, and moved those who wanted to go, to Seattle. And that was quite a few of them. And they didn't just give them jobs - they pretty much kept them together as a team, and added some resources. Adobe as a company may be guilty of a lot of things, but screwing over Syntrillium isn't one of them.

                    • 7. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
                      Teetow1 Community Member

                      stevefoobar2 wrote:

                       

                      I certainly have my Cool Edit Pro 1.5 which I believe may have been the last Syntrillium release and it works in Windows 7. 

                      With all due respect, then what is this thread about? If you're happy with CEP 1.5, but unhappy with Audition 1.0, 2.0, 3.0, 3.0.1, CS5.5 or the upcoming CS6, clearly you found the tool you needed a long time ago. I can only congratulate you, it took me bleedin' ages.

                       

                      Mind you -- I do understand where you're coming from. I've been in your situation many times throughout my career. Making audio for games requires a highly asset-centric workflow, something most DAW:s handle exceptionally poorly (looking at you, Cubase). In my head, I've started a thread like this in the forum of most major audio software companies on the planet. The reason I don't actually post them, however, is that I recognize that not every product can be bent to my will. I'm but one sliver of a remarkably diverse user base, and if there's anything I've learned it's that there exist no silver bullets. Instead, I try to be flexible, and make sure to have as many tools in my shed as I can fit, so that I can always string a couple of them together to get the job done.

                       

                      ...Which brings me to the reason I think you should keep Audition on your radar: Usability. While CEP had this wonderfully nerdy flavor, it also didn't exactly represent the epitome of smooth, intuitive workflow. In fact, one of the reasons I chose Soundforge over CEP back in the late 90's was the speed at which you could implement your ideas. Like I mentioned above, this is a somewhat unique demand of a sound designer, as opposed to mixing, restoration or analytics which are more precise and thoughtful.

                       

                      Adobe, however, has usability straight bang at the core of its DNA. As a long-time user of Illustrator, Photoshop, Premiere, After Effects -- hell, even Indesign -- it's been a pleasure to feel Audition slowly entering that ecosystem of UI:s that don't require you to think -- you just do. If there's anything I trust Adobe with, it's to create a product that's truly usable, regardless of its feature set.

                       

                      So, my sincere advice to you is to never abandon a tool that works for you, but rather to constantly provoke yourself by trying out new ways of doing familiar things. The more you do that, the less you'll remain dependent on things being implemented just-so, the more creative you'll become, and the more diverse your toolkit will be. Who knows, you might even end up liking the direction Adobe is taking, just like I did.

                      • 8. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
                        stevefoobar2 Community Member

                        Very interesting and thoughtful comments.  I agree with some (if not most) of what you are saying actually.  I do indeed have multiple applications I "can" use if I want to (in my case SoundForge for editing and Sonar for music mixing/engineering) however, my preferred "non-musical" software application is still Audition and I suppose I'm almost sentimental about it after having used it since Cool Edit 96, hence my initial extreme reaction (which I've cooled down from since posting fortunately). 

                         

                        Interesting that you mention Audition vs. SoundForge.  Since I started with Audition (Cool Edit 96) and then later tried SoundForge, I never actually liked the user interface and much prefered Audition up until Adobe bought Syntrillium.  I'm still not so sure I like what they have done with it to be quite honest, so I guess to each his own.

                         

                        Having said all this, I still may trial CS6 when it's realeased to give it another try as long as they restore most of the original features.  Even I will admit that there are many obscure features that I never use but I'm sure someone on the planet does. 

                        • 9. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
                          therealdobro Community Member

                          I still use CEP 2 sometimes to open sessions that I did back in the day and which I haven't bothered to convert yet.  Aside from the nostalgia factor, the only thing that I like better is the appearance.  Compared to Audition, it's real purdy.  (With the new Audition stuff, if you turn the brightness setting down to or near zero, you get a sort of 'FL Studio chic' look that's liveable with.). As for how it actually works (I record, mix, and burn CDs - I'm not doing radio work) give me Audition any day - it does so many things better.  Your experience may be different of course, but if you check out the demo with an open mind, you might be surprised.  It's different of course, and you have to get used to that, but so many of those differences aren't simply differences - they're improvements.

                          • 10. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
                            Teetow1 Community Member

                            stevefoobar2 wrote:

                             

                            Interesting that you mention Audition vs. SoundForge.  Since I started with Audition (Cool Edit 96) and then later tried SoundForge, I never actually liked the user interface and much prefered Audition up until Adobe bought Syntrillium.  I'm still not so sure I like what they have done with it to be quite honest, so I guess to each his own.

                            Indeed. One thing I would point out, however, is that it's very easy to become entrenched in a specific UI that you've "mapped out" -- meaning, you can quickly get to frequently-used functionality, regardless of how cumbersome it is -- which in turn will make you somewhat resistant to change. It's a condition I'm sure most professionals are guilty of, and -- I suspect -- the reason you see so many religious clashes a'la Maya vs. Max, ProTools vs. Nuendo, VIM vs. Emacs.

                             

                            The point I was making above was that you can, to a certain extent, innoculate yourself against this problem by making yourself fluent in ALL the applications, which will not only give you the toolbox I spoke of, but also lessen any frustration you might feel when having to work in a UI other than your preferred one.

                             

                            In short, the preferred method is to not have a preferred method.

                            • 11. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
                              SteveG(AudioMasters) Community Member

                              stevefoobar2 wrote:

                               

                              Even I will admit that there are many obscure features that I never use but I'm sure someone on the planet does. 

                              That has indeed been an issue for the developers. There have been features not included in some past versions because it was commonly believed that almost nobody used them - until the protests started rolling in upon their non-inclusion...

                              • 12. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
                                therealdobro Community Member

                                Bruce Williams' excellent tutorials that covered Audition 3 showed me tons of stuff I'd either never have come across, or never figured out how to use otherwise.  I wonder if he found that experience worthwhile and worth repeating in the case of Audition 6.  That's the level I'm at - I need tutorials.

                                • 13. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
                                  stevefoobar2 Community Member

                                  Can you elaborate on who Bruce Williams is and where his tutorials can be found?

                                  • 14. Re: I am done with Adobe!  They messed with the best audio application on the planet...Audition!
                                    _durin_ Adobe Employee

                                    Bruce Williams produced a podcast series called Building the Pod, that covered tools in Audition 3 and other applications.  Bruce's podcasts can be found at http://www.audio2u.com/buildingthepod.htm

                                     

                                    Larry Jordan just released a commercial tutorial series for Audition CS6 available at http://www.larryjordan.biz/app_bin/Store/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=87&products_id=283