11 Replies Latest reply on Apr 16, 2012 1:30 PM by sinious

    starling framework for mobile content

    codeBeastAdobe Level 1

      Hi guys.

      Just been checking out the new framwwork to harness the power of the GPU via stage3D.

      Just wondering if any of you guys know of any great tutorials or are even free to "mock up" some stuff.

      Seem to be few people out there. I mean games wise NOT just your run of the mill programmer who doesn't actually know how to make games.

        • 1. Re: starling framework for mobile content
          sinious Most Valuable Participant

          If you know how to code an application there's not much difference in creating a game as a complex application. Some of the terminology and approaches might be different in very subtle ways but ultimately they're the same. It can still be done in a traditional MVC pattern.


          Once you understand that using the GPU means you're coding the work that some of the built-in flash classes used to do for you, the rest is pretty easy. There's not a lot built in to the API to let you use standard flash classes, like a MovieClip. If you want to animate something you need to learn how to use sprite sheets and manually create animations. There's plenty of utils (http://www.texturepacker.com/) to help you make sprite sheets. Here's a starling over video (http://gotoandlearn.com/play.php?id=147) that uses that util that shows you the basic process.


          While it takes a lot more code to do seemingly a lot less, starling does resemble the display list and a lot of the way flash already works to bridge the gap. The benefit is a huge performance increase on both desktop and mobile devices. But if you don't know how to make even a single app, you've got a lot more to learn than starling. Especially if you're considering targeting mobile devices.

          • 2. Re: starling framework for mobile content
            codeBeastAdobe Level 1


            Thank you very much. I had already seen those links and yes they are great.

            I have recently been chaecking out unity3d which looks amazing. Not sure if I am supposed to ask here but here goes

            1. Can I use unity 3d and export to flash or use my mini flashgames inside unity?


            Please ignore if this is not pertinent in this forum - BUT I can't see any games forums in here and MOST uses of flash seem to be for games


            btw - the code looks real easy to learn in unity so similar to actionscript. Also by being a games engine it looks real quick to mock up a game not like in AS3.

            • 3. Re: starling framework for mobile content
              sinious Most Valuable Participant

              Whatever path you feel most comfortable on as well as the framework supporting your ultimately goals is the right path.


              To answer, Starling, Away3D, Flare3D, Unity3D, etc all use Stage3D. There are 2 ways of using Stage3D.


              If you expect to use it on mobile devices then you'll be working on AIR for Mobile. Just hit up the AIR forum and you will see mobile is one of the forums. You will need AIR3.2 to utilize Stage3D. In this method you'll produce an IPA (iOS mobile app) or APK (Android app).


              Otherwise Flash Player also supports Stage3D. You don't need AIR to use it, just Flash Player 11.x (11.2 is currently out). You will produce the traditional SWF that goes on any website or can be played locally.


              It's important to keep in mind that mobile devices are resource strained. Stage3D runs on a layer BELOW the flash Stage, just as does StageVideo. Any children you add to the display list will appear OVER Stage3D. On a modern computer this isn't a huge deal, although mixing Stage3D with the display list hurts performance. On mobile it hurts it a lot. You should plan ahead to use either all display list or all Stage3D. Mix them as little as you can.

              • 4. Re: starling framework for mobile content
                codeBeastAdobe Level 1

                http://www.photonstorm.com/archives/2568/the-reality-of-developing-web-games-with-flash-ht ml5-and-unity


                If you check out this link title number 10. It warns of the issues with using stage3d. It won't work on MANY derivers older than 2009 - a little scary I think whereas unity will have no problem.

                Therefore it looks like stage3d via starling framework would be fine on mobile etc... but not the best idea for the browser.


                Yes, the idea to go with starling would be to use spritesheets as indicated in the above tuts by Lee Brimelow. The only bummer is having to code via starling for mobile and use the display list for browser.

                However, it doesn't look too bad for the tuts.


                • 5. Re: starling framework for mobile content
                  sinious Most Valuable Participant

                  Note they did push this back to 2008. And hey, that's 4 years ago. How old do you expect people who have smartphones to have and in the context, a person with a 4 year old smartphone is probably very used to things "not working".


                  For the browser you're talking desktop (or android). For the desktop Starling is pointless, just use the normal display list. Any computer will laugh at a properly coded flash piece in AS3. As for android devices with their flash players, that's entirely different. Using starling for android flash makes a lot of sense.


                  Depends on what your audience is really. Learning to use Stage3D is a good idea overall. It's here to stay, is much faster than anything else and in the future will be a HUGE part of developing in flash. Just look at the timeline of gigaflops per second between GPU and CPU and you'll see why learning to harness the power of the GPU is very much in your interests.

                  • 6. Re: starling framework for mobile content
                    codeBeastAdobe Level 1

                    Hey Sinious - looks like you know what you are talking about. I'm researching via companies and forums and coming up with a lot of information. Can I ask you quickly - are you in the gaming industry? We are going to start an online gaming company via strategic head hunting - hired guns who already know how to prgm virtual worlds etc... We have a massive client base. We are an English teaching company based in Spain and should are about to gain some major contracts around the whole of Spain. We develop flash mini activities and we are looking to "jump" into facebook development with viral marketing etc... This is a sharp learning curve but people and pros are being really responsive.

                    Sounds like you would be a great consultant. Please advise... If not, just ignore the mail - I get all sorts of answers from "we are a pro studio and interested" to "don't waste my time." We have amazing stuff btw in the way of graphics... I look like an amateur but remember I'm the CEO not the CTO. I need to look better than the CTO hence my forum posts...

                    • 7. Re: starling framework for mobile content
                      sinious Most Valuable Participant

                      I do not program games, sorry. I use these engines specifically to speed up my content on devices. I work for global companies like Siemens who expect everything created for them show strong brand and function perfectly. Thus I've always been on the forefront of what runs best.


                      I wish I could say I can help but this technology is very new for mobile. We're talking a long development cycle with a release ONLY in the last month or so. Expect vast changes and hiccups to what they have but also expect it to mature. Stage3D for the browser isn't all that old yet either although it's a lot more mature than devices and people often liken smartphones to computers when they are basically solar powered calculators in a real comparison. That means you really need to code using best practices and understand the tech you're using to get the best results. Stage3D is too new to really "consult" on for devices. Surely you will find absolutely no "college" courses on it, it's brand new.


                      Being a gamer since the Commodore64 makes me "in" the gaming industry since I had to program the games by hand from a book that came with it just to play haha, but I'm not a game programmer. Just a standard programmer, jack of all apps rather than master of any.


                      Good luck with your venture.

                      • 8. Re: starling framework for mobile content
                        codeBeastAdobe Level 1

                        Great to hear. btw - The stage3d thing was only one part of what I am looking into. It's NOTHING to do with our core business, I was only investigating for mobiles.

                        Our main business is on pcs via facebook like farmville etc... It sounds like your exactly the right person to speak to. You do NOT have to develop games - we have people for that. We are looking for consultancy for technical advice.

                        a. Flash optimization for bandwidth etc...

                        b. Providing solutions for "bottlenecks" with too much pho requests to server etc...

                        c. And more...


                        If you are in that field then great and if not you probably no some yet-to-be future "King Pins" that you could "throw my way"


                        btw - My father is Austrian - so I am English-Austrian (my mother is spanish but I can't be half of each - hey let's make me a third of each. You sound like you may be German or Austrian or at least Scandanavian...


                        If I can code a game in flash AS3 or unity3d then YOU can in 2 days of training - you won't believe what you can create with these frameworks... chcek out their site - Siemens - sounds good BUT omg that must be boring - no insult intended but I bet you would loe to make games.

                        My brother codes in c# for Lloyds bank and wishes he was "dead" well at least something different. IMAGES make you feel you are really making something NOT just code that has no graphical interface - it's not natural.

                        Hey - I put these mails and thoughts out there and people are respondning well. We hope to be number one at least in the spanish market.


                        • 9. Re: starling framework for mobile content
                          sinious Most Valuable Participant

                          Haha Siemens has a ton of industries. We mostly create content for their PLM and Healthcare divisions which believe it or not is actually pretty fun. It's all about creating huge tradeshow kiosks, ipad apps for salesmen to walk around describing products with in 3d, etc. Ultimately they call it 'work' because it's not supposed to be fun .


                          I live in the USA, RI to be specific. Smallest state. I started the first LAN gaming center here. That's how much I used to be into gaming. However when I had to play games the whole day because that's what my business was it actually ruined games for me overall. Once anything becomes "work", I don't think it ever really remains fun. That's just me though.


                          Your optimization of bandwidth will probably lie in making sure you're using a binary transfer, if you're not already. Adobe has a binary protocol to optimize packet transfers drastically already so if you're not already doing that, look into that.


                          And sure, I'd love to make games. Ultimately a program is a program, whether it involves a boring brochureware interface or an exciting 3d game. It's all just programming. You can hit me up in private message if you want to tell me about what you're doing.

                          • 10. Re: starling framework for mobile content
                            codeBeastAdobe Level 1

                            Finding it hard to send a private hence this post: will investigate tomorrow: Cheers


                            Hi Sinious. Just been reading through some of your posts and yeah - you are on the edge of all the new stuff. Important in this fast moving industry.

                            Let me jot down some quick points and some time in the near future we may get the ball rolling

                            1. Client base: Should be a few hundred thousand users

                            2. Business model: English teaching via: bricks and mortar + online interactive multimedia

                            3. Multimedia: Facebook apps + virtual world + mobile apps (android and ios)

                            4. Prefered technology: Flash + unity3d (via facebook sdk)

                            5. Artists: The best

                            6. Studios (I have the collaboration of what I think are world class studios - they love the pitch and would like to collaborate - IMAGE is everything - from concept design to end product)

                            7. Contracts (credibility): I have the numer one "player" in the world. That credibility is opening doors - a little too fast - hence the rush for technicians. That is the teaching world of course not the games world. PLUS we have the main "player" (excuse my abuse of the term but I like to use it) - in Spain on board too.

                            8. Money: These "players" know who they are and their importance and ABUSE financial terms BUT they give massive credibility to a company hence the interest from other companies.


                            Today is a bad day to write up a spec - just trying to give you some idea of what we are about to achieve and get you interested.


                            We NEED consultnacy REAL BAD

                            We have been researching other companies and the tech is awesome. Via facebook - one of the companies in the top 10 in Spain has been recruiting

                            1. Backend: server specialist

                            2. php senior coder

                            3. flash developer

                            4. flash artist: most stuff is bitmap (texture packer etc...)


                            They have 40 in their team and only develop 3 MAIN games at the moment - I have seen so many flaws in their game BUT it's in the top 20 facebook apops in the world -WOW. 3 million euros this year and growing. Get the market and ie: DUP of 17 million people will see your new game immediately.


                            We are going to get that client base through the collaboprations of the two major spanish institutions so we need to have the technology to be able to take it on. Marketing will be vial through facebook invites etc...


                            Is it exciting - f*** yeah!!! Never seen this in 30 years in business. I am also amazed at the lack of professionalism of most companies. The USA do it AMAZINGLY I can't get over what they do - Jesus - you must be taught this stuff at school or something.


                            There is a company in Barcelona that have produced 3 million turnover in 3 years - am I impressed - NO. I know my market.


                            You don't need to send me a detailed mail fo rthe moment because I haven't sent you specific details yet of your possible involvemnet but I know you will love this.


                            OK - leave it fo there. When I get some free time (selling every day at the moment) - I will send you a detailed overview and you can decide whether to get involved or not.


                            ps: A couple of things - I have other dweveloipers who create for pro companies for the XBox and PS3 - angry birds versions ie: physics engines BUT better etc... written from scratch - a studio that develops for disney and the like - I mean I'm dealing with pros - this is all about getting together an elite team to create the BEST user experiences. Each and everybody must be the best in their field.


                            btw - do you know anything about

                            a. Multiplayer: smartfox etc...

                            b. server side technology

                            c. php

                            d. unity3d (you learn it in 2 days apparently - unity scripting, javascript, c#


                            We will speak in a week or so - I will show you a showcase of games etc...


                            Cheers (btw - do I call you Sinious or have you got a "real" name -. I don't mind - I am Gerry or codeBeast )


                            • 11. Re: starling framework for mobile content
                              sinious Most Valuable Participant

                              I sent you a private message. Look for it in the button bar where your user name is displayed. It should say you have a private message.