11 Replies Latest reply: Apr 18, 2012 11:45 AM by Shan-Dysigns RSS

    General Query About Freelance Designer Fees

    Shan-Dysigns Community Member

      http://grad.berkeley.edu/news/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/dollar-sign.jpg

      I've always wondered what other freelancers charge for various websites. I've read where noobs are getting away with charging $1000 for a very simple 4 page static website (which they admit to using templates) - which I always feel obligated to email the website owner to tell them they got screwed (especially when half the website doesn't work).

       

      The online reports I've read really are so scattered, they offer no insight. The websites I create are always built from scratch, everything is custom designed and coded (unless I use a 3rd party effect) - CSS, JavaScript, etc.

       

      Just for the hell of it, what would you (assuming you are an actual designer and not a template noob) charge for something like:

       

      6 page html website with mostly text and graphics (all graphic are supplied) - photo editing more than likely needed

      Copy editing more than likely

      E-Commerce cart linked to PayPal (I can custom build this without using any 3rd party software)

       

      That's about the meat of it. If you throw in your quote, let me know where you are from (state/country). I'm interested in what people charge world wide. I'd also like to hear any other words of advise about how much others charge. I know I've been under charging for years, but once you get into that hole, it's hard to jump out of it knowing you are still being fair.

        • 1. Re: General Query About Freelance Designer Fees
          Nancy O. CommunityMVP

          I think Patty Ayers said it best.

          http://webdevbiz.com/article.cfm?VarArtID=6

           

           

           

          Nancy O.

          Alt-Web Design & Publishing

          Web | Graphics | Print | Media  Specialists 

          http://alt-web.com/

          • 2. Re: General Query About Freelance Designer Fees
            Shan-Dysigns Community Member

            I appreciate the link, but she speaks of the same relativity as all the other articles. I realize one should evaluate their own skills. My question is basically to poll what others would charge based on my vague details.

            • 4. Re: General Query About Freelance Designer Fees
              Shan-Dysigns Community Member

              ::: sigh :::

               

              Let me try this again... I don't want to read more articles on this topic (I thought I made myself clear in my post). I want to know the price ranges other designers ON THIS FORUM would charge, or how they go about charging out their projects. Reports and figures are useless to me without having some form of communication with the actual designer...

              • 5. Re: General Query About Freelance Designer Fees
                cdeatherage Community Member

                ONetOnline.org is a government supported database describing skills and average salaries for just about every occupation you can think of. For example, if you search for "graphic designer," you get this summary page. At the very bottom, it tells you that nationally, on average, graphic designers currently earn $21.16/hour. It also allows you to compare median wages in any state vs. national averages. 2010 figures for Idaho, for example, show the median wage as $16.11/hr vs. $20.92/hr nationally. For California, it's $24.97 vs. the $20.92.

                 

                I realize this still does not give you a direct answer to your question, but by spending a little time searching through ONetOnline, you can research average hourly wages from across the U.S. and then create your own spreadsheet to calculate an estimate that may offer you an approximate answer. For example, 30 hours at the current $21.16/hr equals $634.80, but that may not be a realistic when you factor in expertise, widgets, overhead, etc., and all of the other variables that general articles on the subject discuss.

                 

                As Murray once responded to a similar question on this board, "Find out what the local plumber is charging."

                 

                Hope this helps.

                 

                Chris

                • 6. Re: General Query About Freelance Designer Fees
                  pziecina CommunityMVP

                  Hi

                   

                  No one can answer your question as there are a number of variables to consider, not least the quality of the work.

                   

                  It is O/k saying you are doing everything yourself, but if your efforts are not to the same standard of someone posting their charges here, then the comparison would not be valid. Also one must consider if you are costing in such things as holidays, sickness, software, hardware, etc. etc. etc. as these if factored in correctly can quadruple the charges, compared to what someone who is doing this as a 'hobby' just to earn a little extra money may charge.

                   

                  PZ

                  • 7. Re: General Query About Freelance Designer Fees
                    osgood_ CommunityMVP

                    Shan-Dysigns wrote:

                     

                    ::: sigh :::

                     

                    Let me try this again... I don't want to read more articles on this topic (I thought I made myself clear in my post). I want to know the price ranges other designers ON THIS FORUM would charge, or how they go about charging out their projects. Reports and figures are useless to me without having some form of communication with the actual designer...

                     

                    Personally I charge according to what I think the company/individual I'm designing the website can afford. I know its the wrong approach but if a small individual approaches me (and I've got time on my hands) then I'll take that into account and offer a better deal as opposed to a larger company who can afford more. Its better to get £500 for a weeks work than nothing. Of course if you're overflowing with requests to use your services you can charge what you like.

                    • 8. Re: General Query About Freelance Designer Fees
                      Rob Hecker2 CommunityMVP

                      No one has yet given you a figure of what they charge. I don't mind saying that my hourly rate is (usually) $65 and I know people who do similar work to me who make well over $100/hour. I consider my hourly rate low, but there are reasons I am willing to work for such a low rate. I generally have long-term relationships with clients, so there doesn't tend to be a lot of unbillable time attached to the hourly work and many clients who are keen on having me do the initial work (priced as a project) are not attached to having me do the follow-up work, so I have to be more competitive on the little things.

                       

                      Having given you a figure, I will say that PZ is exactly right that "there are a number of variables to consider" and I can promise you beyond any shadow of a doubt that knowing my rate may satisfy your curiosity, but otherwise can not possibly have any value for you.

                       

                      For one thing, the focus of my work is creating business logic with PHP/MySQL, not creating HTML layouts. I also have a background in specific industries that makes me uniquely valuable to clients in those industries. And the projects I work on can take a year or more to complete.

                       

                      . . .what would you. . . charge for:

                      6 page html website with mostly text and graphics (all graphic are supplied) - photo editing more than likely needed, Copy editing more than likely, E-Commerce cart linked to PayPal

                       

                      what you are describing is the website of ten years ago. Virtually every potential client I talk to wants a CMS - a website they can manage themselves and to which they can add an unlimited number of pages. You might turn up your nose to WordPress and template noobs, but your potential clients are probably not interested in whether or not you are writing it all from scratch. If you are in the business of building websites that can be defined as "six page html website with mostly text and graphics" then I think you are operating at the lower end of the website industry. Pardon my bluntness, but you are trying to figure out where you fit in the industry. Right?

                       

                      I think such a website should cost $600 to $2000, with the exception of the ecommerce cart part, which is ambiguous. Do you mean an ecommerce cart that you have written yourself, or a free packaged plug-in? There are too many variables to consider there to estimate.

                       

                      I'll offer the following observation:

                       

                      The client probably doesn't question your ability to write HTML or create nice layouts, and for anything but the very smallest businesses, price is not what's going to make them sweat. They want to know that you operate as a serious business, will not waste THEIR time or money, and will stand behind your work. For this reason a client may decide to pay a studio that has four employees and a storefront three times more for a website than you, as a sole proprieter, could get them to pay. Your best way to compete with that is by cultivating a strong reputation based on satisfied former clients.

                      • 9. Re: General Query About Freelance Designer Fees
                        Lon Winters Community Member

                        What hasn't been mentioned in so many words, is what are the current market values of websites? Yes, as freelancers, we all base our fees on some hourly rate but basically charge what we and the client think it's "worth". And we also know how much that value has declined in the last decade. The agency I used to work for in the past charged about 8k or more for a basic site, now it's about 3k. I would charge no more than 1k for the same site. Some of their customers still pay the 3k, but they aren't doing too many these days.

                         

                        Many free lancers still do command more - they have a solid reputation and are in demand. They provide a consistent, quality product and support and many customers would rather pay a premium than take a chance with someone they don't know.

                         

                        Ive been guilty of lowering my price just to get the job, but this practice ultimately is a disservice to the development community. It has lead to customers expecting everything for nothing and will more likely try to take advantage even more. I don't know how many times I've heard "just do this one for cheap, you'll get a lot of business when this site goes up!" if any referrals are generated from those situations, they're from people who know how much was paid and expect the same.

                         

                        So if a noob gets a grand for a site that someone else would do for 500, more power to him or her. Maybe if we all left the cheapie sites to Website Tonight and Squarespace services, we'd all be a lot better off.

                        • 10. Re: General Query About Freelance Designer Fees
                          Shan-Dysigns Community Member

                          I'm going to try and not lose my temper on this, but there is always one in the crowd that sets me off... I hate it when a simple question turns into someone trying to teach.

                           

                          Rob Hecker2

                          what you are describing is the website of ten years ago. Virtually every potential client I talk to wants a CMS

                           

                          Thanks for the backhanded comment. Just because whatever clientele you run into may want CMS doesn't mean everyone else in the world does. Each time a potential client mentions wanting to update their own website, the more I ask about the time they have to commit to it and their basic knowledge of what may be involved (photo editing, etc), they quickly realize it's not worth their time to learn basic skills and therefore allow me to continue to update the website. I mean, web design isn't JUST about creating the thing and severing the client's need for your services anymore. If you just focus on CMS websites, then you are losing out on the updates. Just because YOU don't do something doesn't mean the fact others may do it means they are any less experienced.First of all, online e-commerce didn't really take off until the very late 90's / early 2000, so I don't know how my description would be desribed as something 10 years ago as if it was already so outdated in these current times.

                           

                          For one thing, the focus of my work is creating business logic with PHP/MySQL, not creating HTML layouts

                           

                          Well good for you. I'm more on the graphical/context side of small business websites. While your focus is different, there is no need to assume my experience is any less in what I do. If you build websites in which you know there will be no follow-up money coming in (for updates), then it makes no sense for you to lower your rates based on that. That's just financial suicide.

                           

                          You might turn up your nose to WordPress and template noobs

                           

                          No, I don't turn my nose up to template noobs. I wanted to focus answers from the people who custom build.

                           

                          If you are in the business of building websites that can be defined as "six page html website with mostly text and graphics" then I think you are operating at the lower end of the website industry. Pardon my bluntness, but you are trying to figure out where you fit in the industry. Right?

                           

                          Backhanded comment #2. It was a general description to give a visual of what kind of content this scenario website pertains to. Pardon my bluntness, but your comments are not only arrogant, but also you have totally misread my topic and taken it to a level of insults. I thought I explained quite well I knew I was asking such a vague question and was simply looking for ranges of figures (whether it be hourly or simply based on there being an e-commerce cart). I'm NOT looking for comparisons (as someone else suggested). I simply wanted to get a range (even if it was wildly vague and random), and most seemed to misread what I was trying to ask. Everyone else at least offered "some" insight - while all I read from you was insults. You should have edited your response to just include your $600-$2000 range - since that's the only non-insulting thing I could pull out.

                           

                          ______________________

                           

                          To everyone else, thanks for whatever insight you gave. I'm moving away from this thread before I lose my temper.

                          • 11. Re: General Query About Freelance Designer Fees
                            Shan-Dysigns Community Member

                            Lon Winters

                            Thank you. This is the kind of information/insight I was looking for (personal insight as to their own experiences). Like I said, random online reports and charts mean nothing to me - I wanted to hear personal stories of their thought process of how they would come up with a price range.

                             

                            Nancy O.

                            Interesting read, but since I can't ask her any follow-up questions, her report is just like everything else I have read.

                             

                            osgood_

                            I know what you are saying. Sometimes I adjust fees according to their personal budgets (if my workload can accommodate that is).