16 Replies Latest reply: Apr 20, 2012 11:21 AM by Stan Jones RSS

    How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?

    Lotek-notek

      Hello,

       

      I have created a series of small films in Final Cut Pro X, they have been exported as seperate audio and video tracks, ac3 audio and mpeg video from the presets in FCPX.

       

      I want to use Encore CS5 to create DVDs out of them and I have used it before but only know the basics. The problem is that after I import all the media files, that I want on the first DVD, as assets and put them on the timeline it adds up to 7.23 GB, even though the time is just under 2 hours. I know that that might be pushing it a little bit in regards to the amount of time that I can fit on a regular 4.7 GB DVD, but it should't take up that much space. I removed a bunch of files from the timeline to see what I could fit and only got just under 1 hour. I can see that it is possible to decrease the file sizes, for instance by going to 'file'-'edit quality presets' and doing stuff there, but 'm not sure of the best way to do that.

       

      In other posts I have seen mentions of encore compressing files to fit automatically, but what i want is a way to fit all the video files, not the audio i guess, to a dvd with minimum quality loss. does anyone know the best way to do this?

       

      the only thing i can think off is either to use more DVDs than I feel that I should have to, or to burn a 7.23 GB image and then shrink that using soomething like DVD shrink, but that seems unecessary.

       

      So I have a feeling that there is a smart way to do this and would appreciate any help.

       

      Thanks. Nik

        • 1. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
          Stan Jones MVP

          You exported from FCPX with too high a datarate. The "automatic" setting in Encore is not really to recompress (yes, you can, but with a quality loss), but to take an uncompressed file and fit it to the disk.

           

          Either go back to FCPX and calculate the correct compression, or bring an uncompressed/minimally compressed file into Encore. I'm not sure what the common type would be for Mac.

           

          You may simply have too much material for the disk.

          • 2. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
            Lotek-notek Community Member

            Hello, ok i discovered the possibility for an automatic setting under the transcode settings which makes it fit (mark video file and choose: file- transcode settings or right click-transcode settings). I will burn the dvd as I want it with that and see if the quality loss is acceptable.

             

            Thanks.

            • 3. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
              John T Smith MVP

              >ac3 audio and mpeg video from the presets in FCPX

               

              As Stan said, the Encore automatic setting is not really designed to work with already compressed files... you have files that have been compressed once, and now you are compressing again

               

              If you need to do this again, export out of your editing software as whatever MOV format is used for SD material, and then let Encore work with that file

               

              Over in the Windows world, I export AVCHD to Widescreen DV AVI and give the AVI to Encore for automatic transcoding... works very well for me

               

              http://forums.adobe.com/thread/652694

              • 4. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
                Stan Jones MVP

                I will burn the dvd as I want it with that and see if the quality loss is acceptable.

                That is a good test, and will give you an idea what this workflow will produce. John has given you an option for improving the quality.

                • 5. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
                  Lotek-notek Community Member

                  Hi, yes I really do not know why I got such big files when compressing my material the first time. Do you recommend compressing into .mov without seperate audio file?

                   

                  I guess that something went wrong in FCPX and Compressor 4 though why I cannot understand.

                   

                  I thought avi wasn't a good export format? anyways, thanks for the help.

                  • 6. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
                    Stan Jones MVP

                    I really do not know why I got such big files when compressing my material the first time. Do you recommend compressing into .mov without seperate audio file?

                    If you are used to doing one hour programs and used similar quality/datarate settings for this program that is just under 2 hours, the files are not that big; your program is just longer.

                     

                    If your video is 110 minutes, a bitrate calculator would indicate a target bitrate of about 5.1 to 5.2. Given your filesize, you may have maxed the DVD rate (or used a bluray rate?).

                     

                    The larger file size may make your re-compressed option better quality than most recompression scenarios..

                    • 7. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
                      John T Smith MVP

                      You are on a Mac, I am on Windows... I can only describe what works for ME, on Windows (link in my last message)

                       

                      I will GUESS that you need to export to "something" in a MOV format that is the same as DV AVI under Windows

                       

                      An SD (Standard Definition) file that you may then import into Encore for automatic encoding

                       

                      I have no idea how you would do that with FCPX... only that double compressing files is not a good work flow

                      • 8. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
                        Lotek-notek Community Member

                        hello,

                         

                        Firstly: John, if I export as a .mov and then import to Encore and transcode there will that mean that the file will be shrunk with minimum quality loss? because the .mov file i get using a simple movie export is massive.

                         

                        below follows my findings and more questions. I suppose I should maybe be moving over to a FCPX & Compressor 4 forum. I think I need to do some studies on Bitrate here.

                         

                        I tried the option of automatic transcoding in Encore to fit all files on a DVD and the results weren't terrible, in fact they are almost good enough, but not quite. it's sequences with fast movement that really are affected. So Stan, not much difference.

                         

                        the problem is that the footage i am working with is pretty poor quality to start with. I am working with a bunch of Super 8 family films that have been scanned on to DVDs.

                         

                        In FCPX a film that is 32 Min Pal SD 25p surround sound keeps coming out way to big. Below are some examples:

                        -When I export directly from FCPX as a movie (.mov) with the simple export settings and 'keep current settings' the file ends up being a massive 11.16 GB! With all other setting options the file is also expected to be very big ranging from something like 2.3 GB to 23GB.

                        -When I send it to Compressor 4 and choose the 'SD video sharing' option for uploading online it ends up at 1 GB. These are the settings and summary:

                        Name: SD Video Sharing

                        Description: SD for upload to web sharing sites such as YouTube and Vimeo

                        File Extension: mov

                        Estimated size: 783.36 MB/hour of source

                        Audio Encoder

                            AAC, Stereo (L R), 48.000 kHz

                        Video Encoder

                            Width and Height: Up to 640 x 360

                            Pixel aspect ratio: Default

                            Crop: None

                            Padding: None

                            Frame rate: (100% of source)

                            Frame Controls: Automatically selected: Off

                            Codec Type: H.264

                            Multi-pass: On, frame reorder: On

                            Pixel depth: 24

                            Spatial quality: 75

                            Min. Spatial quality: 25

                            Temporal quality: 50

                            Min. temporal quality: 25

                            Average data rate: 1.741 (Mbps)

                        -When I export the film under the standard DVD export settings I get two files and sizes, one for audio (.ac3) 108.4 mb and one for video .m2v 1.89 GB. The general video setting summary follows:

                         

                        Name: MPEG-2 for DVD

                        Description: MPEG-2 elementary stream for DVD Authoring

                        File Extension: m2v

                        Estimated size: 1.89 GB

                        Type: MPEG-2 video elementary stream

                            Usage:SD DVD

                        Video Encoder

                            Width and Height: Automatic

                                Selected: 720 x 576

                            Pixel aspect ratio: PAL CCIR 601

                            Crop: None

                            Padding: None

                            Frame rate: (100% of source)

                                Selected: 25

                            Frame Controls: Automatically selected: Off

                            Start timecode from source

                            Aspect ratio: Automatic

                                Selected 4:3

                            Field dominance: Automatic:

                                 Selected Progressive

                            Average bit rate automatic,

                                selected: 7.826087 (Mbps)

                            1 Pass VBR enabled

                                Maximum bit rate: 9 (Mbps)

                            High quality

                            Best motion estimation

                            Closed GOP Size: 12, Structure: IBBP

                            DVD Studio Pro meta-data enabled

                        well thanks for the help both of you. it seems that outputting way too big files might be one of the many annoying bugs of FCPX.

                        • 9. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
                          Lotek-notek Community Member

                          Ok, one last question. What's a good bitrate calculator?

                           

                          thanks again for everything.

                          • 10. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
                            John T Smith MVP

                            >the .mov file i get using a simple movie export is massive

                             

                            Again... this is based on Windows... a DV AVI file is about 13Gig per hour of video

                             

                            That 13Gig for one hour will "easily" be compressed to fit on a 4.7Gig DVD by using the automatic setting in Encore

                             

                            Depending on the amount of movement in the video, you MAY be able to get as much as two hours on a single layer DVD with "OK" quality

                             

                            Fast movement (a soccer game) will require a higher bit rate, and more space, than a video of a "talking head" doing a presentation in front of a group

                             

                            Set your Encore parameters to use 2-pass VBR if you need to squeeze the last possible bit out of the transcoding process

                             

                            >the problem is that the footage i am working with is pretty poor quality to start with. I am working with a bunch of Super 8 family films that have been scanned on to DVDs

                             

                            Oh... if your original film was put on DVD in a compressed format, not DV AVI, you really have no choice in what you do

                             

                            If it was me... knowing that DV AVI at 13Gig per hour is a better edit source than any compressed format... I would take a USB hard drive to the company that did the conversion and have them "read" the S8 tapes into a better format, on to the USB hard drive

                             

                            If that is not an option, you may need to put less video on each DVD so you are not double compressing

                            • 11. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
                              Lotek-notek Community Member

                              ok, one more thing. in compressor I can decrease the average bitrate to 3.6 mbps and hopefully get the right size on my files to fit just under 2 hours onto a regular DVD. but if it makes no difference if i use sepearet audio and video track, and I can use .mov files in Encore, then it seems that I can maybe just use the SD Video Sharing presettings I showed above. with that a 32 minute clip ended up at about 1 GB which seems right.

                              • 12. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
                                Stan Jones MVP

                                If getting better quality dupes of the film is not possible, I would go back to the DVD of them and try editing the vobs in Premiere - since it allows that now. Just a short clip with motion; you don't really need to edit. Export as MPEG2-DVD with a CBR of 8. Bring into Encore and see what it looks like. That is probably the best you are going to see. Then decide how to proceed.

                                • 13. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
                                  Stan Jones MVP

                                  ok, one more thing. in compressor I can decrease the average bitrate to 3.6 mbps and hopefully get the right size on my files to fit just under 2 hours onto a regular DVD.

                                  My calculation was that you shoujld be able to get it up around 5 and hvae it fit. (See below for calculator info.) Your best option may be to export a file that fits.

                                   

                                  I can maybe just use the SD Video Sharing presettings I showed above. with that a 32 minute clip ended up at about 1 GB which seems right.

                                  The SD sharing option was to bring a very high datarate version into Encore that Encore can transcode. The datarate for that was actually low? What does that look like if you play it?

                                   

                                  Some bitrate calculators:

                                   

                                  http://home.comcast.net/~c.linke/bitbudget/

                                  http://dvd-hq.info/bitrate_calculator.php

                                  http://www.videohelp.com/calc.htm

                                  • 14. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
                                    Lotek-notek Community Member

                                    hello Stan and John, thanks for the quick replies and the good answers.

                                     

                                    I'm close to a dealine so I have to work with what I have here. I have to go out now and will return tomorrow, but as for now my plan is 3 fold:

                                    -I've changed the settings in compressor and i am making smaller mpeg files by dropping the bitrate as low as 3.6, but will try also at 5. Will see if I get good enough files to work with there.

                                    -I have a bunch of small .mov files because I have been uploading regularly to youtube to be able to share project with client. I am using them in Encore to see how that works out.

                                    -I'll export from FCPX as .mov and bring those big files into Encore for automatic transcoding to check the results.

                                     

                                    I am increasinlgy convinced that my initial conversion of the DVDs I am working with wasn't that great, but then their quality wasn't that great either.

                                     

                                    I will report my findings.

                                     

                                    take care.

                                    • 15. Re: How do I best compress a multi file project in Encore CS5 to fit a standard DVD?
                                      Lotek-notek Community Member

                                      Hi, i am choosing the option to decrease the average bitrate to 3.6, maximum bitrate 7.9, 1 pass vbr best, best motion estimation setting (all in compressor 4). with that I end up with about 1 GB when I add the .ac3 sound file for a 32 minute film. considering that i want just under two hours on a dvd I think that this is the best way to get the best quality and best size. however, this means recompressing 45 film clips that last between 32 minutes and 30 seconds, and i thought i had this done. got some fun times ahead looking at progress bars.

                                       

                                      adding the small .mov files to encore meant too much quality loss. creating big .mov files for automatic encoding in encore means lots of space, long transcoding times i think, and not much increase in quality.

                                       

                                      thanks for all the help again.