Have you manually gone to Windows Update and ensured you have even the non-critical updates? (This can get you some important drivers that aren't otherwise available.)
You have two hard drives. How is your second hard drive configured? Have you ensured that it is set up in your computer's BIOS as well as its operating system? If you haven't got your drive set up in your BIOS, you will experience poor data transfer performance.
Have you ensured that both drives are formatted NTFS and not FAT32 (as they come from the factory)?
Have you cleared off your temp files, defragged and tuned-up your computer? This is particularly important on a new computer, since configuring the operating system makes a mess of your drives. My favorite free, one-button Deep Care tune-up program is Advanced System Care from http://www.iobit.com/advancedsystemcareper.html
On that hardware, this program should fly like a jet! Something clearly is configured wrongly on your system.
I have all the Windows 7 updates, including SP1. Both hard drives are configured correctly. Drive F is used for storage of personal files and documents only. Premiere Elements 10 runs from the C drive. Both are NTFS. I use CCleaner on a semi regular basis to clean up temp files, unused registry entries etc. I also use Driver Sweeper when installing new drivers to make sure the old ones are cleaned off completely.
I have no issues with other software and the previous version of Premiere I used was version 4 which didn't work so well in Windows 7 but at least the GUI was fine. I belive the issues I'm having are as a result of running a 64 bit OS despite installing the 64 bit version of PrE10.
>Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
I have Win7 64bit Pro so don't have the details, but I have read that Ultimate has "extra" stuff that is used in a "managed, network" situation that may, with default settings, slow down some operations... you might Google for that as an idea... I think the Aero feature?
With that rig, he shouldn't have to turn off Aero.
What happens if you start a project file on your C drive and work with media only on it? Does your performance improve? (This will test to see if it's the configuration of the second drive that's the problem.)
>With that rig, he shouldn't have to turn off Aero
True... but with Windows, odd things do sometimes happen
For instance... this morning I logged into a forum, and Internet Explorer popped up a warning about a "bad" site security certificate
I restarted, and the warning went away... so, it just MAY be that "something" in Win7 Ultimate is causing the problem
A very good point, John!
In the world of computers, you can't assume anything.
Best thing I can do is show you http://youtu.be/8C7GbqXir8o
Kept this simple so I'm just showing you how slow the track bar is to refresh while scrolling it up and down. The slower I scroll the more it has trails. You can also see the shuttle flickering as it moves along the timeline as it plays. This is just with some black video. It gets mush worse when proper video clips are on the tracks and moving them around, resizing, zooming etc. This is all prior to adding any media regardless of which drive it's on. But I only work with C drive for projects. Like I said before, F drive is for personal documents only and is not accessed while making a project.
Turning off Aero does imrpove the refresh rate but only very slightly. With Aero off scrolling the tracks up and down slowly, as in the above video is better until you scroll it faster then it has trails. The shuttle doesn't flicker either. So yes turning Aero off is an improvement but not exactly ideal. Remains to be seen what a full on project session will be like with Aero off. I'll have to let you know.
I used Fraps to record this but the video was too large so converted it to WMV to keep the size down. Suffers somewhat in quality but you can still see what's going on. Also, something I didn't quite catch in the above video are small white blocks and lines which appear on the track bar when moving clips and trimming etc, like they leave bits of themselves behind. Eventually clears but this is quite an obvious description of a screen refresh problem.
Fraps won't record Premiere after turning off Aero, the output video is blank.
If the video is WMV or FRAPS, then that's at the root of the problem. Neither is a very efficient codec for this program.
Premiere Elements is designed to work with camcorder video, and it works excellently with miniDV, AVCHD, HDV, Flip and even DSLR video. Non-camcorder video sources will dog the program like nobody's business, as you're seeing.
More on Screen Capture
Jing by Techsmith http://forums.adobe.com/message/3692768
No, you misunderstand I'm not putting capture video in a project. I just made the video so you can see the GUI refresh problem in Premiere. As I've already stated this problem is the software itself and nothing to do with ANY media added to the project. I only used Fraps to show you what I was talking about - I'm not actually adding captured video to a project!
I'm not sure what you're looking for then, Soopy. You pretty much dismiss any suggestion we offer.
If you have an issue with the software, you should be contacting Adobe. We're just users helping users here. We don't have anything to do with the way the software itself is designed or functions.
I don't know how much clearer I can explain the problem. I haven't dismissed your suggestions, all you've done is failed to understand what my thread was about! The whole point of this thread was to highlight an issue I have with Premiere Elements 10 GUI not refreshing fast enough for a smooth, flicker free operation from the start, before adding media to the project. I made a video of using Premiere to show you how when scrolling the track bar up and down it leaves trails, moving black video clips around leave bits of themselves on the track bar all because the program doesn't refresh fast enough and wanted to know why - just how clearer can this be?
This is Adobe's forum right? I assumed I might be able to get some help from someone who has a similar problem. I guess this was a waste of time.
>help from someone who has a similar problem
That may be the problem... nobody who has responded HAS the same problem, and a fix, so the only answers you have received are all based on what "should" work
Since the answers you have received do not work, you would SEEM to have a problem that may not be fixed by the other users here
I have the same problem as you. I also have the same hardware stack as you except I have 16GB of RAM. I was expecting this product to run snappy on my system. Definitely not the case. Sounds like Steve was reverting to the typical support answers....."Make sure your system is up to date". I would agree with that except my system is up to date. Aero seems to be having conflicts with Adobe's GUI.
Well, it's a little unfair to say I'm reverting to a typical support answer, Jamm. For one thing, I'm not a support guy. I'm a guy who's been successfully using every version of this program since 2003 and just wants to help people new to the program out. For another, the true typical support answer is that you need to reboot your system.
The real point is that I'm running version 10 on a dual core 2.6 ghz Windows 7 system with 4 gigs of RAM -- a fraction of what you guys have -- and I'm not having any of the problems you're having. So the challenge for you (and us) is to figure out how several times more power means much slower performance.
I'm open to ideas. But, since I can't sit down and troubleshoot your systems myself, you need to try some things yourselves.
Or not. It's up to you. I'm just here offering suggestions.
Agreed Steve. Unfair. I did not mean to snipe you. I thought you were Adobe's first line of support. I'm just pretty frustrated. I've been working with and building computers for the majority of my life. I have edited video on multiple platforms with significantly better performance. I was running the CS5 demo with zero issues on my Core 2 system. Since I have moved to the i7 I purchased elements because it was inexpensive and seemed to have the same basic core features as CS5. Not only have I been let down with the performance, the workflow of the GUI is ridiculous.
1. I have not figured out how to simply export a video without having to go through the entire "Share" dialogue.
2. Every single time you change a codec setting you are required to save it as a new preset.
3. The box where you check "Share WorkAreaBar Only" doesn't remain checked as you move in and out of the advanced settings.
This is not directed at you. This is directed at Adobe. This is straight up capitalism in software. In order to remove the annoying restrictions that slow down the work flow, you must purchase the expensive software. Something I can't afford.
These are all great suggestions for Adobe's feature request page:
You'll certainly be more likely to get Adobe's attention there than here.
Meantime, the other side of capitalism is that we all vote with our wallets. With so many great, affordable options out there, the best way to tell Adobe that you don't like the direction they're going is to buy one of the others' products. Adobe may be the gold standard among pro products -- but there's certainly no reason to stick with Elements software if a product by Sony, Ulead, Pinnacle, Corbis, etc., better fits your workflow.
That is an interesting spin. I agree the vote is with the wallet however I voted on experience with other Adobe products. Elements may be good for your workflow however there are some very shady things going on with this piece of software. I would urge all users of this software to understand what they bought. Yes you will be able to edit videos with Adobe's powerful professional engine, but this software is intentionally limited and spiked with intrusive software that provides Adobe info about your system and how it is used. Have you ever noticed the Adobe Auto-Analyzer that soaks up up to 75% of your CPU even when it is not open? Have you noticed how in order to shut off the auto-analyzer feature you have to provide personal information?
Elements is Adobe Premiere wrapped in a very limiting GUI with intrusive and potentially unethical personal information collection techniques.
I'd take my vote back if I could.
Well I'm still tweaking this that and the other, trying to find an explanation and hopefully a fix. Pretty certain...actually I'm 100% certain this is 64 bit issue. I say that because it turns out my Dad has similar problems in Photoshop Elements 9, also on 64 bit Windows 7 but on a much lower spec'd laptop.
I have a thread over at Elements Village now. I have other issues in PrE10. Rendered project not staying rendered when saving, exiting and reloading for example.
I've got the same problem.
AMD Phenom X4 955 3.2 Ghz
Windows 7 - 64 Bit
16 Gb Patriot PC 12800 RAM
My install of windows is to a solid state drive, whereas all of my editing and even my install of Elements is on a separate 7200 RPM hard drive.
Quicktime is installed (however a fresh install of premiere elements just opening an empty new project shouldn't be relying on Quicktime)
The video card is an nVidia GTX 560 TI 1280 Mb RAM with the most current drivers available from the nVidia site.
All performance of this machine on every piece of software I use is stellar and I would guesstimate that I'm over the minimum specs by a sufficient amount that this should run like a dream.
When using Elements 10, the timeline is laggy. This is before any content has been entered. If the performance is this bad with no content, I can't see it being workable with 3-4 mixed video clips, some flash animations, mp3s and titles. Problem occurs with or without Aero enabled (not that it should matter).
It is plausable that the issue is the 64 bit install being garbage, but as much fun as dual booting a 32 bit install is, I'll have to pass on that one.
The Adobe Premiere Pro CS5 trial works just fine which is... unfortunate. Steve, you didn't mention, are you running 32 bit windows 7?
Windows 7 64-bit.
Welcome to the forum.
It IS looking like some Win7-64 installations ARE running unnaturally slow, as far as the GUI redraw is concerned, as there are quite a few users reporting the same problem.
Your post contains about all of the info, that I can think of, that could affect the this. Thank you for all of that up front. It is greatly appreciated.
Now, though AMD CPU's do not furnish the same performance, as Intel CPU's, with regard to Adobe programs, if the PrPro CS 5.5 trial is running smoothly for you, then that should probably be ruled out (though I do find it a bit odd, that most users with the slow GUI issue have them?).
I would look over the second part of this ARTICLE (looks like you have taken care of the first part, but look over it, in case something else was missed). The second part focuses on tuning up one's system and their OS. Especially see Black Viper's Win7-64 OS tune-up tips. Please let us know if any of those tune-up tips improve the performance.
I am also with you on dual-boot systems. That should not be necessary. I used to do that, but it was when I was beta testing new OS's, and I discontinued doing that many years ago.
As a side-note, when the sluggish GUI issue is solved, I see two things that might cause issues, in actually editing Projects:
The "mixed footage" statement is a bit of a red-flag, as PrE does not do well, with mixed sources - some mixtures can be much more problematic, than others. Note: within limits, PrPro CS 5.5/6 will handle mixed sources better, than will PrE, and especially with a CUDA-capable GPU and hardware MPE.
MP3's, while a supported format, can also cause issues. See this ARTICLE for more info. Some work just fine, but others can be problematic.
Good luck, and please report if any of the OS tune-up tips improve the GUI performance.
I checked through the article and didn't run into anything that should be having an effect. I'm running a 24Gb page file and the install of windows is fresh so it's not a space issue. Defragmenting the hard drive has limited value with the size of hard drives being so large these days. It's almost like Premiere doesn't know what to do with advanced hardware. AMD and Intel keep running circles around each other in performance with each generation of CPU so it shouldn't be a compatability conflict there as I would have expected to post this on the box if it was going to be a problem.
When I was trying to do some editing with the actual video sources, I did of course run into the red line issue I've seen you guys mention before. But that just means Premiere has a hard time previewing the image natively. If you render the work area, the red goes away as Adobe has baked the video screens into the project. The render process is a bit slower than Pro but I expected that and with a Quad Core processor and 16Gb of RAM it's still very quick.
Unfortunately Premiere Pro is out of my price range. I'll have to hit up Adobe support first to have at least tried that angle before I try to go the refund route. I was disappointed to hear the support is from India. While I appreciate they may be great techs (and have dealt with a select few who were) the language barrier is irritating to say the least.
The performance issue with Intel vs AMD is not straight-line performance, but performance with Adobe programs. They are written to take full advantage of an Intel CPU, though still run quite well on an AMD, just not as well as on an Intel chip. Still, that should not even be noticed, and especially at an initial stage with a Project. One might see it, if the Project was very large and intricate. I do not believe that it would be an issue here - though I could be wrong. PrPro CS 5.5/6 show improved performance on an Intel CPU, than on an AMD, with very similar specs. To see those differences, you can look at the performance database from the PPBM benchmark site - sort by CPU and interpolate the performance between similar Intels and AMD's. Still, those performance attributes should be seen only when using PrPro's editing functions, and not with GUI redraw.
As for the red line, lets discuss that a bit, as it CAN be important, though should NOT manifest itself with the display of the GUI, which is what we are basically talking about here - only with playback in the Program Monitor. Initially, when a Clip is placed onto the Timeline, a red line indicates that there is a mis-match between the Project's Preset, and the properties of the Clip(s). That should be addressed at the New Project stage. One should NOT have a red line initially, and that CAN create issues, and not just playback problems.
Then, if one has no red lines, or green lines (after a Render of the Timeline), and they add/adjust any Effect, add any sort of overlay, such as a PiP, a Transition, or overlay Title, a red line will appear. That indicates that for the smoothest possible playback in the Program Monitor, one would want to Render the Timeline, or that part of it, with the red line. Note: that affects playback in the Program Monitor only, and NOT GUI redraw. Also, if one adds a Still Image to the Timeline, there WILL be a red line above it, as PrE basically needs to "create" video from the Still Image. Again, that is ONLY for playback in the Program Monitor, and NOT GUI redraw.
You are correct that with large, mostly empty HDD's, defragmentation is not as important, as with smaller, mostly used up HDD's. However, it should not be dismissed entirely - it is just not quite as important, as it once was. There are performance benefits when working with defragmented files (less seek time), and also performance benefits from having files on the outside areas of the platters (again, less seek time). However, that file placement performance gain will be somewhat minimal, and should not be affecting GUI redraw much, if at all. Even with large, partially used HDD's, defragmentation should not be overlooked.
Also, with a 64-bit OS, and plenty of physical RAM, the Page File is less important, than it was with 32-bit OS and the max, usable 4GB of RAM. In addition, having the Page File statically managed, is less important, as a 64-bit OS w/ plenty of RAM, has many more resources at its disposal, so the dynamically managed Page File's CPU cycels are far less important. As the Page File is used less often, having it statically managed Page File, placed on the outer areas of a HDD, are also less important, than with a 32-bit OS and 4GB RAM.
I wish that I had some other thoughts to share in this matter, and will be watching for others' observations, and tests, with rapt attention, as I feel that I will soon learn something.
Good luck to all,
>red line issue
Is your red line there immediately after importing, and before doing any work?
If yes, your project does not match your video
>timeline is laggy. This is before any content has been entered
I completely do not understand... if you don't have anything on the timeline, how can it lag?
Thus the concern John. The people in this thread are basically having issues with performance while editing video, so being techy type individuals we've all reduced the involved steps the the lowest possible. And we've discovered that the performance problem we're experiencing is not related to the video content being used.
What we've done is opened a brand new project (I've tried 7 different presets just to be extra sure). No content loaded, no videos, no sound. You can resize the Premiere window such that the default timeline has a scroll bar vertically and of course the horizontal zoom is always present to be used as well. When you scroll vertically or zoom with the timeline the user notices significant artifacting and poor performance. One of the users posted a youtube video of the problem (The video is accurate for what I see on my screen and was done to show the symptoms) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C7GbqXir8o&feature=youtu.be
So ultimately it is a problem inherent within Premiere possibly conflicting with computer hardware of some kind that we've been unable to narrow down. At this point we've eliminated the content from causing the problem my showing that the problem occurs before any content is loaded. (in my case FRAPS which I know is not supported "officially") We've also eliminated low computer specs from the problem with multiple high powered machines being in use.
As GUI redraw issues are usually associated with the video driver, you have pretty much ruled that out, as you have the latest nVidia driver (not sure about the others now?), so something else must be coming into play, but I cannot imagine what that would be.
As for FRAPS, when you get the GUI issue(s) sorted out, if you have not seen it, there are some tips in this ARTICLE, that might be useful. It starts out with mainly tips and comments on Camtasia footage (lot of good tips from Jeff Bellune, who uses that program, along with PrPro), but there are some links directly related to FRAPS footage down-thread. Also, when you DO get to editing, if you have any FRAPS-specific tips, that others can benefit from, and especially with PrE, please share those.
Here's a few things that are not the cause of the slow GUI:
- Multi threaded CPU's
I tried setting the Affinity of the running process of PrE10 to single thread, no change.
- Desktop resolution
Changing your desktop resolution doesn't help, just makes it harder to use the program.
- Large Address Aware
PrE10 is already set to use more than 2Gb of memory
- Nvidia Control Panel
Does not make a difference on changing any of the 3D settings.
And what might be the cause:
- Windows Aero
Disabling it does make a difference, though not by much.
- Motherboard Display Chipset
Updating mobo drivers may help, though probably not.
Perhaps the slow refresh is simply the result of slow communcation from the GPU to the monitor.
Though if this was the case it would be noticable in other applications and games.
One of your "possibilities," Monitor, might be well worth checking out. Some Photoshop users have had degraded performance, when the monitor's refresh rate was not set to the ideal for that/those monitor(s).
I would also explore OpenGL settings too. While those usually do not have much effect with PrE, they certainly do with Photoshop, so it might be worth a look.
Good luck, and thank you for reporting.
Intel Core i7-2600K
Windows 7 Pro 64bit
Asus Sabertooth P67 Rev.1 MB
Ram, 8Gig Corsair
WD 150 GB, 10000 rpm drive for OS
WD 1.00TB for data
WD 2.00TB for Video only, all NTFS
AMD Radeon 6800 series disply card with the latest drivers.
Creative SB Audigy 2 ZS sound card.
Antec 1000 Wat PS.
All media is from Sony Mini DV Camcorder, DV-AVI
And yet I have the same problem, sluggish jerky timeline.
Same project in Adobe Premier Element 7 is fine.
I expected the 10 to be more efficent. And you know that Adobe leaves the support to this forum it seems. Pitty.
The first question is always, Do you have the same problem if you're editing your miniDV project with both your project file and your media on your C drive. (Try it as an experiment.) Use your miniDV footage only in this experiment.
If your sluggishness goes away, you know it has to do with how your drives are configured.
If not -- something very odd is going on. If you can't even edit miniDV without issues, then my Pentium 4 XP is beating your Windows 7 i7 monster, and I don't know how the program can be blamed for that.
Thanks Steve. I have always respected your opinion and guidance. I will try that and let you know.
I tried a new test project on my C:\ drive with capture from a Sony Mini DV tape camcorder, only 15 clips with no effects, transitions, etc... but the timeline remains jerky, slow and with delayed response. The hard drives are SATA, 6gb/s and in the Bios are set to AHCI mode. Makes me think that PreE10 does not play well with Win 7 64bit.
As I mentioned before, the same project in Pre 7 has no such problem. May be Adobe would look into this! One can hope.
When I lived in LA, we used to joke that, because of the way traffic flows, the earlier you leave for work the later you'll be.
Maybe it's some weird thing like that. The faster your computer, the slower the program runs.
Sorry for your challenges, Mike.
I have the same problem. Wish there was a fix.
Try moving out of LA.
As you see on this thread, I was one of the first ones to complain about this problem and I followed Mr. Grisetti's and others recommendations but my proble with slow GUI in Pre-10 was not resolved. I had reverted back to Pre-7 which worked fine then I decided to take a chance and shell out more cash and buy the Pre-11. The problem is solved in Pre-11 and I think the Adobe was aware of the issues with Pre-10 and corrected it in Pre-11 since Adobe never issues update for its consumer software but I have had updates and patches for CS-6 several times. Try the trial version of the Premiere Element 11 and see for yourself. By the way I purchased Steve Grisetti's book on Pre-11 and I can say one should not be without it. It contains tips and instructions that Adobe never tells you!!
Good editing and regards
Hey, thanks for the plug, Mike! Glad you're enjoying the book!