36 Replies Latest reply: Jun 20, 2014 9:01 PM by therealdobro RSS

    MIDI, please

    therealdobro Community Member

      Feature request: MIDI, or Rewire support.  I reckon MIDI's more organic/integral to Audition development than Rewire support?  The ability to record in MIDI and then bounce the track down to wav would be a very useful step.  If it's not too much trouble, that is.  I have little idea of the big picture, after all.

        • 1. Re: MIDI, please
          Kost7 Community Member

          Yes, MIDI please. Creative Suite?.. Let us create music

          • 2. Re: MIDI, please
            therealdobro Community Member

            You know, I'm still uncertain what to request exactly in this situation.  l want to be able to record MIDI stuff in Audition, and if I could edit it, that would be splendid.  But the reason that I'm not sure whether to request MIDI or Rewire, is that I'm not sure how much development time each would take.  So, I think my request is like this: I want to be able to record and edit MIDI, but I don't want it to take so much development time that other important features get the axe.  See?  My guess is that IF the developers did it, they'd prefer to build MIDI right into Audition, make it an organic and integral part of the build.  But my guess is also that, considering how few Audition users actually need that functionality, that it would be more cost-effective to go the Rewire route.  That's why I'm asking for the functionality, any way they care to provide it.

            • 3. Re: MIDI, please
              Kost7 Community Member

              MIDI was very useful to me in Audition 3. I stopped using Cubase. So I am hoping now when most of the effects are back in CS6 the company will focus on MIDI and music creation.

               

                I will be happy with simple MIDI like Audition 3 has. Plus ability to right click and choose all notes and then drag them and move to new key on the piano roll. I use different drums and many times drums sets are mapped differently. I have to move kick part or snare often.  In Audition 3 I have to zoom out whole song and highlight kick part then to zoom in and drag to proper drum sound. It’s complicated.

               

                Metronome is back in CS6 and it’s great but some musicians prefer record tracks under real drum sound then metronome click. It’s more inspiring. I have always used basic drum beat for the recording and then later I paid attention to almost every drum note and bar.

               

               

              And to have tempo change is my highest dream.

               

              Audition CS has got to have Rewire for sure.

              • 4. Re: MIDI, please
                ryclark Community Member

                I believe that you can select different sounds for the Metronome including some drum sounds.

                • 5. Re: MIDI, please
                  Kost7 Community Member

                  Yes, but probably it will be more like separate clicking and not the kick, snare, hi hat playing altogether . And no extra kick per bar or crash every 4th bar .

                  • 6. Re: MIDI, please
                    Kost7 Community Member

                    therealdobro wrote:

                     

                      The ability to record in MIDI and then bounce the track down to wav would be a very useful step.

                    oh, yes. That is so awesome  that you can bounce midi to wav so easy in Au3

                    • 7. Re: MIDI, please
                      Kneelie1

                      For my work, I really need MIDI composition and plug-in support. For me, Audition without these features is like Dreamweaver lacking support for HTML and CSS.

                       

                      I see from this post: Audition CS 5.5 and the future of Audition - http://forums.adobe.com/thread/838570?tstart=0 that the development team is hard at work modernizing Auditions code base, implementing multithreading, increasing performance, and working to fully take advantage of modern hardware. =D There are features in the wings, and that gives me hope that Audition will fully support MIDI in the future.

                      • 8. Re: MIDI, please
                        therealdobro Community Member

                        Here's something I was reading in SOS yesterday:

                         

                        "I think it's inevitable that DAWS of all kinds will converge in functionality over time.  The evidence of that convergence is already plain to see in many cases.  However, in the early days of digital audio editing and workstations, the complexity of these new technologies meant that manufacturers tended to specialise in specific areas of functionality.

                         

                        "The original MIDI-based sequencers - such as Notator (now Logic), Cubase and their ilk - have all gradually added audio recording and editing tools, while the originally pure audio-editing systems - such as Sound Designer, SADiE, Sonic Solutions and Pro Tools - have gradually added MIDI facilities and plug-in support.  So the difference between systems is far less clear now than it once was.

                         

                        "However, the inertia of change has meant that some systems still retain strong specialisms and are favoured on that basis.  For example, CEDAR started as a largely off-line post-processing platform for audio restoration, but its current incarnation includes sophisticated audio recording and editing facilities to improve the conveninece of using it as an 'on-line' tool.

                         

                        Okay, two things.  First, Audition actually gets mentioned in the paragraph AFTER the last one I quoted above, but the thing is that SOS, Adobe, and many of its users seem to think of Audition primarily as one of those 'specialised in specific areas of functionality' softwares, and not really one of the 'converging in functionality' softwares.  Too bad for the likes of you and me.

                         

                        Second, Audition HAS in the past nudged itself toward being all things to all people, all the while maintaining that specialisation it's famous for.  In Version 3, it tried to embrace basic MIDI, but it didn't work so well for some users.  (eg me)  So if it's tried to include music-makers in its userbase in the past, maybe it will continue that direction in the future.

                         

                        So I see the situation as gloriously inconclusive and ambiguous.  I need MIDI.  The best situation for me would be for Audition to develop that functionality.  Second best would be for Audition to develop Rewire functionality so that I could run something like Reaper (which handles MIDI very nicely, thank you very much) inside Audition.  Third best would be for Audition to ignore the issue completely.

                         

                        The question seems to be whether enough of the developer's time can be devoted to this to get it working, after they've taken care of the main thrust of the program's development trajectory.  With Version 6, they've really come up with a strong, strong software in terms of its primary functionality.  So maybe there's development time available for stuff like MIDI or Rewire.  Maybe.  We'll know by Version 7, I think.  In the meantime, there's no alternative but to explore alternatives.

                        • 9. Re: MIDI, please
                          Kost7 Community Member

                          I really hope that it was just matter of new code engine writing and cross-platform and now when it's there they will restore ALL features from Au3, including MIDI and Rewire. 100 % of my midi use is drums (rock drumset sampler most of the time), then 50% keys and 5% some kind of synth. Basic midi option will do for me and for something serious one can always use Rewire or VSTi editing program of his liking (I think FL offers that) on Audition track. But I got to have drums in Audition. Because I like Audition and would like to continue to use it.


                          • 10. Re: MIDI, please
                            therealdobro Community Member

                            Hey, did you ever get MIDI working satisfactorily for you in Version 3?

                            • 11. Re: MIDI, please
                              Kost7 Community Member

                              Yes, I think I did. As I said most of time I need just drums. And I like them in Audition Sound Font player. Different snares and kicks sounds... it's cool

                              • 12. Re: MIDI, please
                                Temoff

                                Yes, MIDI please!

                                • 13. Re: MIDI, please
                                  Burnyno

                                  Yes Music Creation, we need MIDI in Audition thats for sure.

                                  • 14. Re: MIDI, please
                                    Spamhunter Community Member

                                    I just bought Creative Suite CS6 with Audition & have just realised... there's no MIDI functionality???!! They took it OUT? That's surely 99% of pro studios rendered incompatible with Adobe Audition, no?

                                    • 15. Re: MIDI, please
                                      therealdobro Community Member

                                      CS6 rocks.  It's better than  Audition 3, which was a good program (and which had a kind of MIDI functionality).  So, on the one hand, I'm disappointed that CS6 doesn't have MIDI, but on the other hand, I'm happy that CS6 is the best instance of the program since its inception.  So maybe, like me, you'd like to keep lobbying for the inclusion of MIDI (or Rewire functionality) in a subsequent version of the program?

                                      • 16. Re: MIDI, please
                                        Kost7 Community Member

                                        I've listened Jason Levine music on iTunes yesterday. I guess He probably used Audition to make it. And I wonder if it would be a help for him to have MIDI in CS6..... Anyway, it gives me hope that Audition will be not only about editing but creating music too. And MIDI is great tool to create especially in small setups.

                                        • 17. Re: MIDI, please
                                          Burnyno Community Member

                                          Yes Hope we gonna have MIDI in the next version of Audition

                                          • 18. Re: MIDI, please
                                            Lukas Pearse

                                            Midi Machine Control, MMC, would be even better than ReWire, in my opinion.  That way, I could sych Audition to whatever program I'm using for music (Logic, Digital Performer, Live, Pro Tools) and do audio edits in Audition.  Plus, I could use a VTR for video playback, which is what I really want, so that Audition doesn't get sluggish with huge video files.

                                             

                                            So, simple MMC would solve so many issues.

                                            • 19. Re: MIDI, please
                                              ngp311

                                              Well said.

                                               

                                              I guess it will have to be lucky ver. 7.

                                              • 20. Re: MIDI, please
                                                therealdobro Community Member

                                                I thought MMC was for controlling hardware devices that can be controlled using MMC.  Is that not right?  So how can you use it for synching Audition to other programs?  And why would that be superior to ReWire?

                                                • 21. Re: MIDI, please
                                                  Lukas Pearse Community Member

                                                  MMC is useful for synchronizing with other DAWs. It is just as much for hardware as is MIDI itself, meaning that although that that was the origins, it remains useful this far down the line.   The problem with ReWire is that it requires a master-slave relationship, and there are often limitations in the slave application, while a MMC sync allows for independence and then inter-app audio or midi via Soundflower or IAC or midi ox or whatever.  This is how one syncs Pro Tools and Logic or DP or Ableton, and it would be great to add Audition to this party. 

                                                  • 22. Re: MIDI, please
                                                    Lukas Pearse Community Member

                                                    This would be super useful for being able to work on a sound edit in Audition whe composing music in Logic or Ableton or DP and be able to tedt them together without having to deeply connect the projects like ReWire requires.

                                                    • 23. Re: MIDI, please
                                                      therealdobro Community Member

                                                      Because I've never used (or hardly heard of it) I'm still unclear about it.  For instance, these days I'm using Reaper for all my MIDI recording and editing.  How could MMC enable Reaper and Audition to talk to each other in a way that would streamline my workflow?  At present, I have to do a mixdown of what I'm doing in Audition, ship it over to Reaper, record/edit my MIDI parts in Reaper, render the MIDI file to a wav file, open the wav file in Audition and proceed from there.  Could MMC streamline this in some way?

                                                      • 24. Re: MIDI, please
                                                        Lukas Pearse Community Member

                                                        It would be helpful so that one could hear the Audition mix IN-PROGRESS along with a score in progress without having to bounce out either.  This would be great for both folks like myself who do both but also when I do either music or sound and work with another composer or mixer.  This would make it simple to make changes in one app in response to work in the other without having to export yet.

                                                        • 25. Re: MIDI, please
                                                          therealdobro Community Member

                                                          Yeah, that sounds useful, if I understand it correctly.  This bears investigation.

                                                          • 26. Re: MIDI, please
                                                            SteveG(AudioMasters) Community Member

                                                            Lukas Pearse wrote:

                                                             

                                                            Midi Machine Control, MMC, would be even better than ReWire, in my opinion.  That way, I could sych Audition to whatever program I'm using for music (Logic, Digital Performer, Live, Pro Tools) and do audio edits in Audition.  Plus, I could use a VTR for video playback, which is what I really want, so that Audition doesn't get sluggish with huge video files.

                                                             

                                                            So, simple MMC would solve so many issues.

                                                            You've got your acronyms mixed up. You're talking about MTC, not MMC.

                                                             

                                                            MMC is essentially in Audition anyway - it's how you can use an external control surface with it. What you are referring to is MIDI Time Code. Essentially, this went out with the ark - far too many problems with it, because of sync starting issues. It was a way of getting Audition (well Cool Edit, really) to sync with external hardware,  but needed an external interface to make it work. Yes, it was what was used to sync external VTRs, but almost nobody wants to do that these days - everything's 'in the box'. And that's where Rewire is far more useful - essentially MTC without the hardware, or syncing issues. When MTC was dropped, there were a few calls for its return, but they were pretty muted, and died away.

                                                            • 27. Re: MIDI, please
                                                              Lukas Pearse Community Member

                                                              No, with all due respect, I do not mean Midi Time Code. MTC is too inaccurate to be very useful, while MMC controls transport functions and can keep devices synchronized.   Yes, as I said earlier, it's origins are with controlling hardware like tape machines, but it can also be used to synchronize DAWs and  if they are on different computers, then it requires an interface. 

                                                               

                                                              These may be long gone in Cool Edit land, but in the rest of the pro audio world, they are reasonably well serviced, and used in studios that actually have audio equipment. Obviously, these are probably not well known in entirely in-the-box circles. 

                                                               

                                                              It is precisely because Audition almost has it implemented fully, as it is how the control surface support works, that it would be helpful to have it fully available. 

                                                               

                                                              Rewire is fine, great even, and I would be happy if Audition had it, but it would only work in certain configurations with other applications. For example, Logic only can be a Rewire master, and Ableton cannot use MaxForLive under ReWire, and there can be limitations using external plug-ins on whatever DAW is the slave. 

                                                               

                                                              It would be simpler and more open-ended to use MMC which effectively links the transport controls. 

                                                               

                                                              Really, I just want the ability to synchronize playback with other DAWs that have other strengths so I can use Audition for it's excellent audio editing and leave music creation to something else. 

                                                              • 28. Re: MIDI, please
                                                                SteveG(AudioMasters) Community Member

                                                                Lukas Pearse wrote:

                                                                 

                                                                These may be long gone in Cool Edit land, but in the rest of the pro audio world, they are reasonably well serviced, and used in studios that actually have audio equipment. Obviously, these are probably not well known in entirely in-the-box circles.  

                                                                They aren't well known these days because in relative terms, there are hardly any of them... which probably explains why it was dropped as a discrete option.

                                                                 

                                                                It is precisely because Audition almost has it implemented fully, as it is how the control surface support works, that it would be helpful to have it fully available.  

                                                                Well, Audition supports the original Mackie control protocol - so if you can find a box that can interface with that, you might get somewhere.

                                                                • 29. Re: MIDI, please
                                                                  Lukas Pearse Community Member

                                                                  Hardly any of them in prosumer bedroom setup, sure.  This is a professional feature, worthy of professional software, stuff that might not be of use to people working by themselves, but very useful for people working as part of a team. 

                                                                   

                                                                  It hasn't been dropped by Avid, Apple, MOTU or Stienberg. Hardly an unknown list of pro audio software companies. 

                                                                   

                                                                  And the point is that MMC would let people working in different DAW's collaborate by synchronizing their part of a project with their collegues' without having to bounce, do as to allow for making adjustments faster.

                                                                   

                                                                  A Mackie control surface cannot connect to multiple DAWs at the same time, as the implentation is potentially different.

                                                                   

                                                                  But MMC is standardized synchronization of transport controls, is quite accurate, and would be a useful feature in professional collaborative situations.

                                                                  • 30. Re: MIDI, please
                                                                    SteveG(AudioMasters) Community Member

                                                                    I'm not saying that it shouldn't happen, or shouldn't be there - but even in pro circles, there is a massive move towards software-only solutions, so it will become progressively less of an issue. The developers research all this stuff pretty closely with major customers, and if there was a real demand, they'd implement it.

                                                                     

                                                                    Incidentally, when I do location recordings, there's absolutely no software involved at all - I simply don't trust it. But I don't have sync problems either - because post does happen in the box.

                                                                    • 31. Re: MIDI, please
                                                                      Lukas Pearse Community Member

                                                                      This has nothing whatsoever to do with in-the-box vs hardware. 

                                                                       

                                                                      This is about synchronizing playback between two DAWs.  Both of which are software. 

                                                                      • 32. Re: MIDI, please
                                                                        Earl Kurburski Community Member

                                                                        one more post for MIDI!

                                                                         

                                                                        I can't afford the space to house a B3, Grand Piano and the 12 major synths I use in my recordings.  All are on my hard drive along with Countless drum sets.  And I don't even need an external to store it all. 

                                                                         

                                                                        Quite frankly, I don't know why, when I have Pro Tools, SonarX3, and yes Reaper, why would I want to have Audition on the computer?  These programs handle live audio just as well as Audition, and if they don't you can add professional plugins that do.

                                                                        • 33. Re: MIDI, please
                                                                          MusoCity

                                                                          Well all the above is pretty overwhelming for midi. I don't know how good the Adobe developers   "Research" is, as look at the content amount in the whole Audition forum (5,636) compared to the REAPER forum with 40,275 just in one subject alone. Is it the research or is it just all too hard for the programers to bother ?

                                                                          A deer with no eyes I would say.

                                                                           

                                                                          Audition

                                                                           

                                                                          REAPER  http://forum.cockos.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20

                                                                          • 34. Re: MIDI, please
                                                                            therealdobro Community Member

                                                                            Explain the connection you see between the number of forum entries and the need for Audition to have MIDI.  I fail to see it. 

                                                                            • 35. Re: MIDI, please
                                                                              CTStump#1

                                                                              Being a User from 3.01 that never upgraded I have to come in against this request if it comes close to what MIDI is in 3.01 which seems to be what is implied with some posts here and in other threads.

                                                                               

                                                                              At best it is totally unreliable and buggy as all getup which in all respects no one who uses DAW would want. The only thing Audition really shines at is Audio forensics and the focus should probably stay that way for the foreseeable future in the context of the Creative Cloud.

                                                                               

                                                                              For MIDI anything you are best off looking at a dedicated DAW and it may be a little unfair to demand support in Audition for something that at this point requires unnecessary resources to be wasted on a feature which would not work as intended as well as other DAW solutions already out there already.

                                                                              • 36. Re: MIDI, please
                                                                                therealdobro Community Member

                                                                                That's how I feel about it too.  Adobe's been dragging their feet on the MIDI issue for about forever.  I suspect it's pretty low on the list of priorities.  I'd still rather do my MIDI in Audition than outside of it, however.  What about you?