16 Replies Latest reply: May 5, 2012 8:54 AM by Thieme Markus RSS

    Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4

    idsurfer1 Community Member

      Why does the clarity slider seem different to me in LR4 (4.1 RC actually)? IN LR3 I loved that thing. I would ramp it up quite a bit with many photos. It would give it a nice crisp look. Now it seems as if it just makes my shots look like they have too much contrast. Also, when using the clarity brush, many times it seems as if where I paint it on it actually lightens it up. I havce had to look as see if I had the exposure tool on instead.

       

      Also, I swear a "medium contrast" tone curve setting is different now as well. This was the default setting in LR3. Now default is linear. But if I apply a medium curve from the drop down, it looks over cooked? What the heck? Are these things just me? BTW I am working RAW files. Thanks

        • 1. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
          areohbee Community Member

          Linear in PV2012 is sames as Medium in PV2010 (tone curve).

           

          Also, the clarity algorithm is changed - in my opinion mostly for the better but definitely needs to be used more gingerly and/or in different circumstances.

          • 2. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
            JA430 Community Member

            In PV2010 with some photos I found that starting with a linear tone curve was helpful. Is there any way to duplicate that in PV2012 if you want to start with a totally flat curve? Sounds like flat is no longer flat. Also, what was the intention when they made the decision to make linear in PV2012 the equivalent of medium in PV2010?

            • 3. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
              Lee Jay Community Member

              Flat was never flat.

               

              If you want to use the old linear, put an image in PV2010, select linear, and convert it to PV2012.  The new tone curve is equal to the old linear.  You can save it if you like.

              • 4. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                areohbee Community Member

                I recommend using DNG Profile Editor to create camera calibration profile(s) with a reduced contrast "linear equivalent" tone curve. That way, you don't end up with a bunch of points already on the curve in Lightroom.

                 

                You can either create an equivalent curve by eye, or if you want it exact you can use numbers (it's a bit of a stunt, but I'll help if you choose to go that route).

                • 5. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                  JA430 Community Member

                  Thanks Lee Jay. That sounds like a good solution. Was there a reason why they got rid of the old linear and replaced with a higher contrast curve?

                  • 6. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                    JA430 Community Member

                    Thanks Rob. I will have a look at the DNG Profile editor. I am not familiar with it at this point and will probably need to take some time with it. Thanks for the offer to help me out should I try that route. In practice, do you find the enhanced contrast of the new linear objectionable?

                    • 7. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                      areohbee Community Member

                      If you want a PV2010 linear tone curve for PV2012, using the DNG Profile Editor (DPE):

                       

                      * convert any raw file to DNG (if not already DNG)

                      * load it into the DPE

                      * Edit things if you want, except for the tone curve.

                      * Save the recipe.

                      * Load it (dcpr file) into a text editor.

                      * Replace the tone curve with this:


                      <dngclr:ToneCurve rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:Edit0 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>0</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>0</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit0>

                      <dngclr:Edit1 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>17</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>26</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit1>

                      <dngclr:Edit2 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>34</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>44</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit2>

                      <dngclr:Edit3 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>51</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>60</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit3>

                      <dngclr:Edit4 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>68</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>74</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit4>

                      <dngclr:Edit5 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>85</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>89</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit5>

                      <dngclr:Edit6 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>102</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>105</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit6>

                      <dngclr:Edit7 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>119</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>120</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit7>

                      <dngclr:Edit8 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>136</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>135</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit8>

                      <dngclr:Edit9 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>153</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>151</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit9>

                      <dngclr:Edit10 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>170</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>167</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit10>

                      <dngclr:Edit11 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>187</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>183</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit11>

                      <dngclr:Edit12 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>204</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>200</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit12>

                      <dngclr:Edit13 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>221</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>218</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit13>

                      <dngclr:Edit14 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>238</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>236</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit14>

                      <dngclr:Edit15 rdf:parseType="Resource">

                      <dngclr:X>255</dngclr:X>

                      <dngclr:Y>255</dngclr:Y>

                      </dngclr:Edit15>

                      </dngclr:ToneCurve>

                      * Re-save the file in your text editor

                      * Re-load the changed recipe in DPE

                      * Export a profile with a tone curve equivalent to PV2010 linear.

                       

                      Note: The tone/point curve in Lightroom will not have any points on it that way.

                       

                      PS - This procedure assumes you will be using the "Base Profile" for "Base Tone Curve" in order to achieve equivalence with PV2010 linear in PV2012 (for the same Cam-cal profile(s)). If what you want is a truly linear tone curve, select "Linear" as "Base Tone Curve".

                       

                      Rob

                      • 8. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                        areohbee Community Member

                        JA430 wrote:

                         

                        In practice, do you find the enhanced contrast of the new linear objectionable?

                        I don't care about it at all, to be honest.

                         

                        One can always use the contrast slider and/or tone curve to create the desired contrast regardless of the starting point, and I have my own camera calibration profiles for different things anyway, so "linear" to me just means "not yet modified...".

                         

                        If it's any consolation, I think Adobe should have provided a "legacy linear" tone curve preset, to match the linear in PV2010, thus avoiding the need to use DPE to accomplish what some were used to doing natively in previous Lightroom version. But in the interest of making lemonade from lemons, consider trying to see this as an opportunity to become familiar with DPE .

                        • 9. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                          -Agfaclack- Community Member

                          Rob Cole wrote:

                           

                          Also, the clarity algorithm is changed - in my opinion mostly for the better but definitely needs to be used more gingerly and/or in different circumstances.

                           

                          after using it for a while and close inspection i thinks it´s a double sided sword.

                          for some images it works good for others it´s horrible.

                           

                          i know it´s now twice as strong... but i speak about color/brigthness changes.

                           

                          imo it should be reworked / improved.

                          • 10. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                            areohbee Community Member

                            -Agfaclack- wrote:

                             

                            after using it for a while and close inspection i thinks it´s a double sided sword.

                            for some images it works good for others it´s horrible.

                            No argument.

                             

                             

                            -Agfaclack- wrote:

                             

                            ...but i speak about color/brigthness changes.

                             

                            imo it should be reworked / improved.

                            How would you describe these proposed improvements?

                             

                             

                            R

                            • 11. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                              -Agfaclack- Community Member

                              Rob Cole wrote:

                               

                              How would you describe these proposed improvements?

                               

                               

                               

                              im to lazy to search the other thread about it.... i hope you don´t mind.

                               

                              but in short: NO color changes, NO brightness changes.

                              just the best of both worlds: no halos (that is good with the new clarity) ... but also no color shifts and brigthness changes.

                               

                              i found that the new clarity slider often effects the whole image to much, not just only the midtone contrast.

                              • 12. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                                areohbee Community Member

                                Fair enough - thanks.

                                R

                                • 13. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                                  idsurfer1 Community Member

                                  I agree very  much with what Agfaclack says about the clarity slider. Thanks for everyone's comments.

                                  • 14. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                                    JA430 Community Member

                                    Thanks Rob. That makes good sense. Guess I just got in the habit of turning to the linear tone curve as a way of attempting to start from a more neutral point as far as contrast was concerned.

                                    • 15. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                                      areohbee Community Member

                                      You're welcome.

                                       

                                      JA430 wrote:

                                       

                                      Guess I just got in the habit of turning to the linear tone curve as a way of attempting to start from a more neutral point as far as contrast was concerned.

                                       

                                      Understood. - and you are not alone...

                                      • 16. Re: Clarity slider and tone curve in LR4
                                        Thieme Markus Community Member

                                        Comment on

                                         

                                        Also, when using the clarity brush, many times it seems as if where I paint it on it actually lightens it up

                                         

                                         

                                        I expierenced a lighting up caused by brushing the clarity when brushing the clarity in PV2010 and then converting it to PV2012: When adjusting the clarity slider in the brushed and P'V converted image, the clarity slider inevitably resulted in a brightening (or darkening) of the brushed area.

                                         

                                        The problem however disappeared when deleting the brush, brushing the same area again and adjusting the clarity slider only then!

                                         

                                        @Adobe: Can you please check the situation. Would be ready to provide you with more details. Just contact me if needed.