14 Replies Latest reply: Apr 30, 2012 9:35 AM by photodrawken RSS

    Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?

    cboerens

      Hi,

       

      this is a typical beginners questions, so please bare with me if the answer is pretty obivous.

       

      I put a few pictures in idividual layers on a canvas and made a simple frame using stroke selection. Then I made the mistake to rescale the pictures, and obviously the frames got scaled as well. So now they are all of different thickness and I would like to correct that by using again stroke outline selection. The only problems is: I get a whole bunch of effects I don't understand:

       

       

      The following images showes the situation before I click o.k. and apply the settings to the right hand picture:

      Original.png

       

      After clicking o.k. I see that the frame became wider (o.k. so far) but that there is also a brighter line inside the brown border- why? And more over there appears to be a shadow border inside the image, about as thick as the frame - where does this come from?

       

       

      question.png

      Any help would be much appreciated,

       

      regards, Christoph

        • 1. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
          R_Kelly Community Member

          That's from resizing the image or layer.

           

          You probably won't notice that at normal magnifications (view%)

           

          You might first resize the image or layer and then add the stroke.

          • 2. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
            cboerens Community Member

            Thanks for the answer! The structure in the borders, as visible in the first image, is indeed most likley an effect of the previous scaling. However, the second image shows the result directly after applying stroke outline again. There is no scaling involved that could explain the effects the red arrows mark.

             

            Any more thoughts?

             

            Christoph

            • 3. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
              R_Kelly Community Member

              How did you make the selection for the stroke?

              Did you use Select>Modify>Border?

              • 4. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
                cboerens Community Member

                Well - no. I just clicked on the image with "Auto select layer" enabled. This does not give me the marching ants, just the kind of selection, which is a bit visible in the second picture of the original post. Under Select -> the "Modifiy" option is greyed out then.

                • 5. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
                  cboerens Community Member

                  Thanks for the help so far! I am trying to reproduce in order to better understand whats going on.

                   

                  1. Upper corner of a jpg image (500% view)

                  1.png

                   

                  2. Selected by simple mouse cluck. Then outine selection 8 pt inside

                   

                  2.png

                  3. Image size reduced to 60%

                  3.png

                  (so far everything as expected)

                   

                  4. Again select by simple mouse click, then outline seletion again 8 pt inside

                   

                  and .... result is perfect, as in image 2

                   

                   

                  I  don't get it,

                   

                  halve an hour ago, when I tried to reproduce I got the artifacts ... really !

                  • 6. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
                    R_Kelly Community Member

                    You might make your stroke on a new blank layer so it's easier to fix those problems.

                    For example, Ctrl click on the layer in the layers panel that you want to put a stroke on (this makes a selection of the pixels on the layer)

                    Then make a new layer and Edit>Stroke.

                     

                    You can then use the pencil tool or the eraser tool to fix the feather effect (for lack of a better word).

                     

                    You can resize both the layers at the same time by selecting them both before transform.

                     

                    The thing you see around the image that looks like a selection with handles is the Bounding Box (you see that when using the move tool)

                    • 7. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
                      cboerens Community Member

                      Thanks again for your patience and also the fundamental explanations.

                       

                      I followed your procedure above and applied the stroke to the selection on a new layer. The result look exactly like on the second image in this thread:

                       

                      5.png

                       

                      However now I can certainly make the image layer below invisible, then it lloks like this:

                       

                      6.png

                       

                      Could it be that any presettings with regard to brushes or feathering or whatever are wrong?

                       

                      I also followed the other point from you and made a selection with the marquee tool. When I then do edit -> Stoke, the result is different.

                       

                      7.png

                      regards, Christoph

                      • 8. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
                        hatstead CommunityMVP

                        cboerens,

                         

                        When i have several layers which are generated in the course of enhacing the picture file, I create a stamp visible layer at the top of the stack of layers. This combines all the layers without flattening, and, retains the layer structure below. To do this, open a blank layer at the top of the stack, and press CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+E on the keyboard.

                         

                        Now, to add a stroke, go to Select>all (or CTRL+A), open a blank layer above the stamp visible layer, go to Edit>stroke and position it inside.

                         

                        If you want to change the color of the stroke, you can delete the layer with the stroke, and do it over. However, you can also open a color fill adjustment layer above the layer with the stroke, select your color, and clip the adjustment layer to the stroke layer (Layer>create clipping mask).

                         

                        If you would like to learn how to create a nice frame, rather than a plain stroke, please advise ---something like this:

                         

                        P4290004 copy.jpg

                        • 9. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
                          photodrawken Community Member

                          When you get the undesired effect, post a screenshot of your Layers Palette.

                           

                          Ken

                          • 10. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
                            cboerens Community Member

                            Hi Ken,

                            please find the screenshot below:

                             

                            8.png

                             

                            Christoph

                            • 11. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
                              cboerens Community Member

                              @hatstead,

                              thanks for the suggestions, first time I  heared about a stamp layer ... faszinating. I am not sure if this will help me with my problem on a singel layer, but I will look into this ...

                               

                              Christoph

                              • 12. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
                                photodrawken Community Member

                                OK, there's nothing unusual about your layers.

                                 

                                I think that what you're seeing are the artifacts created by repeatedly resizing the image (and its stroked outline).  When I reduced the size of an image (without a stroked outline) that's in a larger canvas, I see a semi-transparent edge around the image of about 1 pixel in width (zoomed in to 2,000% to see it clearly).

                                 

                                Here's what I suggest for your workflow:

                                1. Do all the editing to the images you will be using on the image files themselves.
                                2. In your final document, use File...Place to bring each final image in on its own layer as a Smart Object.
                                3. Re-size and place the Smart Objects as required.  Using Smart Ojbects means that if you later resize the images, they will have less pixelization because the new size is obtained by using the original image and not the previously resized image.
                                4. Create a new blank layer above each image to hold the outline.
                                5. Ctrl+click on an image thumbnail in the Layers Palette to get a selection of all the non-transparent pixels.
                                6. Activate the appropriate blank layer and use Edit...Stroke to apply the outline.

                                 

                                After the fact, if you decide to change the sizes of the images, delete the layers holding the outlines and proceed from step #3.

                                 

                                Added:

                                Keeping the outlines on their own layers makes it ridiculously easy to change the colour and style of the outlines by clipping a Hue/Saturation adjustment layer to the outline's layer, or applying a layer style to that outline's layer, etc.

                                 

                                Ken

                                 

                                Message was edited by: photodrawken to add comment.

                                • 13. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
                                  cboerens Community Member

                                  Hi Ken,

                                   

                                  thanks for the tips:

                                   

                                  1. Do all the editing to the images you will be using on the image files themselves. 
                                    • O.K, I do everything in Lightroom before I switch over, which (other than PSE) I am pretty familiar with
                                  2. In your final document, use File...Place to bring each final image in on its own layer as a Smart Object. 
                                    • o.k. I think there is even an LR plug-in, that will do that directly
                                  3. ... 6. Understood

                                   

                                   

                                   

                                  This sounds very logical. I am a bit afraid that I may acidentially resize only the image, not the border layer, but that something I  guess is worth the advantages (from what I read grouping layers in not available in PSE)

                                   

                                  My original questions is still open, because even if there are artifacts from resizing present in a picture, I would expect that a new stroke just overwrites all pixels below, but this became an accademical question, when I use the better workflow in the future.

                                   

                                  best regards,

                                   

                                  Christoph

                                  • 14. Re: Stroke outline selection creates inner shadow - why?
                                    photodrawken Community Member

                                    Hi Christoph,

                                    cboerens wrote:

                                     

                                    I am a bit afraid that I may acidentially resize only the image, not the border layer

                                    That's OK.  The point is to have the the image and its border as separate layers so you never need to resize the border -- if you resize the image, delete the old border layer (or delete the contents of the border layer) and do the border again.

                                     

                                    Ken