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Planning / building a new system. Part 1

LEGEND ,
Mar 27, 2012 Mar 27, 2012

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At some point in time, we all face that difficult decision. We know that our system is at the end of its lifecycle and needs to be replaced in the near future. But does it require a complete new system, or is it worthwhile to upgrade parts of the system, or is it better to wait for the new .... that was just announced?

We all have these thoughts from time to time, we have budget restraints, we have to 'sell' our ideas to the Financial Director, we have to get final approval and then, as a final step, we must implement them.

This gives you the link to a multi-part sequel about planning and building a complete new system. It is not a simple copy this build and paste it for your system builder, because it is based on my own ideas, budget limits, needs, and idiosyncrasies. It is full of uncertainties, decisions to be made, further investigations to be done, but the intention is to take you along on this journey to a new system, showing you the choices I had, the decisions I made and why.

See: Planning and Building a new system

I appreciate your feedback and help in this endeavour, which may not be finished before september 2012. I intend it to be a 6-7 part sequel with pictures of the build progress.

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Engaged ,
Mar 27, 2012 Mar 27, 2012

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Hi,

Harm

Very Interesting,

I will be building a new system in a few months time, and some of the parts you have choosen are really interesting.

Good Luck,

I look forward to your next Sequel

Baz

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 27, 2012 Mar 27, 2012

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Harm,

Since you mentioned you like the hot-swappable cages, have you considered the CaseLabs TX10-V, so that you could use the cages on the PSU side also?  I'm trying to decide between these two cases.  Height might put it out of consideration, but it sure would be nice to have the cages all up and down the PSU side also. 

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LEGEND ,
Mar 27, 2012 Mar 27, 2012

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You are correct that height was the only consideration not to choose the TX-10, for the simple reason that it would not fit under my desk.

My office just does not allow any other location than under my desk, in the corner:

Office.png

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New Here ,
Apr 23, 2012 Apr 23, 2012

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Harm, I am starting on a build very similar to yours - but with a lot less beef. I already have the 3930 CPU and the Asus P9X79 WS motherboard and my Noctua NH-D14 cooler, 600 GB Sata III Velociraptor HD and EVGA GTX 570 (Model 1579 with 2GB of RAM) should arrive this week.

I've started thinking thru the setup and in reading the MB manual, I find myself with so many choices that I don't know what to do. First, I think I need to settle on the the disk/RAID setup so I can do that once - when I set up the system instead of coming back to "fix it". 

I already have a 120GB SanDisk SATA III SSD (Extreme) and I also have a pair of 80GB old (Sata II) SSD's.

I had planned to use the 120 GB SSD for my boot disk, and the velociraptor to run videos/photoshop projects. Everything that is finished goes to my HTPC so I don't need a lot of storage, but I did plan to use an internal 1TB Green WD HD for backup - In addition to my external HP MediaSmart Server backups.

Now that I read about the WS motherboard's ability to use an SSD as cache for a larger HDD, I am wondering if I should use a SATA III SSD/Velociraptor HDD setup for my project fines and a small SATA II SSD for my OS. And would I want the largest stripe size possible for both RAIDs or a smaller size for the OS?? If I need a hardware RAID controller to do any of this, I probably would stay with the software alternatives.

To add to the confusion, I can still expand my HD options - I could get a 300GB velociraptor to go with the SATAIII SSD drive for the OS, and another 600 GBvelociraptor to pair up in RAID 0 for the projects.

My PSU is a Corsair modular HX620W which is probably light, but I will only use it on my "test bench" to get some power consumption data before I decide how big to go. I have 4 sticks of G Skill Ripjaws DDR3 1600, 4 GB each, which I will eventually either supplement with another 16GB or maybe replace totally with 64GB. And there is also an LG blu-ray burner and a USB wireless N adapter to pop into the USB port on the MB.

Fast booting is nice, but not worth spending money on - rendering is what eats up hours and what I want to beat down.  This is not a professional work station, just for my photography/video hobby, but I still never want to have another 16 hour render time. 

There will be no software on this machine other than what is necessary for my hobby - I'll use Windows 7 Home Premium 64GB and Adobe Lightroom 4. I already have Production Premium CS5 and plan to download the trial for 5.5 - or 6.0 if it is still available as a trial. The ASus MB comes with Norton but I usually use AVG Anti-virus - I don't plan to be surfing the Web, only to dowload updates for drivers, etc.  I would even use my other machine for tutorials, etc. to keep this one as clean as possible.

I've never overclocked before, but this MB seems to make that process pretty straightforward.  I'm sure I will have a hundred other issues as I progress, e.g. should I use the Drive Xpert Mode (is Super Speed just RAID 0 for dummies??and does it only work on the same SATA  ports that will provide SSD caching??), should I use TurboV EVO or set up an underclocking profile and an overclocking profile for myself? Would I want to overclock the GPU?? Should I use MEMOK?? Would you recommend installing all of the Asus utilities or is that just bloatware?

And then there will be tuning Windows and setting all those Adobe preferences, how to take advantage of the two LAN ports, etc., etc., but I do have some sources to start with for those challenges.  It would be great to use your thread or your build site to package some of the best resources.

The case for all this gear is still undecided, probably a Silverstone Fortress FT-02. I've never had a viewing "door" before, but with all of the ASUS diagnostic lights, maybe that would be a good idea.

I'm ok to use anything that makes life simpler, but not at the expense of bogging down the system. I'd appreciate comments and advice from you and anyone else interested, especially if there are issues that I obviously have not thought of. I plan to try to run the PPBM5 (or 6) benchmarks and I'm game to try out various configurations or tests to see what works best.

This is the first time I've ever sought help with a build (except for my son, but family is different), so I hope I haven't asked for too much. If I have, it's really the HDD system that I need to come to grips with before I start putting  things together.

Thanks in advance,

Dorothy

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New Here ,
Apr 27, 2012 Apr 27, 2012

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Harm, I now realize there are other threads more relevant to my question, in fact, I think I have found the answers to most of my questions. When I finish my build I will try to run the PPBM5 benchmarks (or maybe the PPBM 6 runs if they are ready then). Thanks, sorry to have polluted your thread and good luck with your build,

Dorothy

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LEGEND ,
Apr 27, 2012 Apr 27, 2012

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Dorothy,

Sorry for not having answered before, Your post did not not give me sufficient handles to come up with a clear and concise answer as a reply. It was a bit too broad and raised too many issues/questions to answer in some simple phrases. Nevertheless, your doubts, questions and uncertainties about which way to turn are about the most frequent things one encounters when building a new system. That was the exact reason why I started this series, but my timetable may not match yours. If you have specific questions, please create your own topic and I will try to respond. But if I'm not there, there are many others with valuable input who can help you.

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New Here ,
Apr 27, 2012 Apr 27, 2012

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Hi Harm,

I am in a similar boat - my current i7-920 is good enough, but I would like to upgrade.

I saw the Adobe TV episode about the Premiere CS6 and Mercury Playback Engine.

http://tv.adobe.com/watch/cs6-creative-cloud-feature-tour-for-video/get-blazing-performance-and-rock...

It says that Premiere CS6 was designed to take advantage of the new Xeon E5-1600 and E5-2600 CPU's.

There doesn't seem to be a price premium for the new Xeon's.  The Xeon E5-1650 has the same specs as the i7-3930K and is a comparable price.

I am looking forward to seeing some PPBM6 results from the new Xeon's.

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New Here ,
May 02, 2012 May 02, 2012

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Hi Harm

Great info. I'm in a similar position of looking to upgrade to get the best out of CS6 (Premiere, AE etc) and was very interested in reading your thoughts about your future upgrade plans as I'm looking at similar specs. I am considering the Asus P9X79 and wondered what the difference would be between the Pro version and the WS you're proposing. I'm also finding great difficulty in sourcing the Samsung 1.35v 4gb memory sticks in the UK so I'm considering others and wondered if you could recommend memory (8 x 4gb) that would also work well with the X79 and a 3930k cpu.

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New Here ,
May 02, 2012 May 02, 2012

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I've looked at Harm's thoughts on the various components and have decided (probably) to upgrade within the next couple of weeks. My current system is

Windows 7 Professional

Antec 1200 case

Asus P6 X58 mb

Intel i7 930 2.8

GTX 480

24gb memory

Corsair 850w silver psu

Highpoint Rocket Raid 4322 Raid controller

4 x 1tb Samsung F3 internal Raid 0

4 x 1TB Samsung F3 external Raid 0

1 x 1TB Samsung F3 os disc

Matrox MXO2 le

I intend to swap out the mb, cpu, gpu and memory and put in the following

Asus P9 X79 Pro mb

GTX 680 gpu

Intel i7 3930k cpu

Corsair vengence green 8 x 4gb (1.35v) memory

My intention is to use CS6 with Premiere Pro and AE nad hope that this confirguration will work well

Any suggestions regarding the compatability or any other possible issues with this potential setup would be welcome

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New Here ,
May 02, 2012 May 02, 2012

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icy100, I am in the process of starting up my build very similar to yours.  But I used the workstation version of the Asus P9X79.  It is a K***A** Board, but I did have to RMA the first one I received and it IS LARGER THAN A STANDARD ATX board - CEB form factor 12x10.5. I couldn't fit it into a coolermaster Scout for example, so I ordered a Silverstone F02. You may have to stick with the Pro version if you want to use the Antec 1200. I wanted the WS for the twin LAN ports and the firewire which I need.  It also has a port for a wireless adapter stick ($5.00 refurbished) which is a really easy install.

You need to think about your CPU cooler.  I used the Noctua NH D14-SE2011 and it just barely clears my GSkill ripjaws memory sticks - it seems to be more than adequate cooling. I had read that folks had to Dremel off the heat spreaders on some Vengance sticks.  I believe the Asus website and the Notua website will give you the combined requirements for a case and for memory that will physically fit. Also the Noctua cooler is very high so you need to check the clearance in your case. If it won't fit, you may have to go with liquid cooling - with its attendant radiator/fan fitting issues.

I did get a 1000 w psu, but you are likely fine with the 850.

If I had 24 gb of existing COMPATIBLE memory, I would start with that rather than buy an 8x4 set, the WS mobo has memory configurations for 1, 2, 4, 6, and 8 sticks. Then if 24 GB isn't enough and you need to go to 32 you could then buy a 4x8 set and then eventually add another 4x8 to get to 64 (although I have read that sometimes adding an unmatched set just doesn't work, so that's somewhat of a gamble).

Good luck, if you need anything measured, just let me know, it's all together on my dining room table so easy to do now.  My case comes tomorrow, so I'll start packing it in next week.

Dorothy

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LEGEND ,
May 02, 2012 May 02, 2012

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DeePeeBee wrote:

If I had 24 gb of existing COMPATIBLE memory, I would start with that rather than buy an 8x4 set, the WS mobo has memory configurations for 1, 2, 4, 6, and 8 sticks. Then if 24 GB isn't enough and you need to go to 32 you could then buy a 4x8 set and then eventually add another 4x8 to get to 64 (although I have read that sometimes adding an unmatched set just doesn't work, so that's somewhat of a gamble).

Dorothy,

The only problem with that is that the memory controller bandwidth will be reduced if you're not using RAM in sets of four on this platform. For example, if you're using six sticks, what the LGA 2011 memory controller does is map part of the installed memory as quad-channel and the remainder as single-channel. So, with 6x4, only 16GB will be mapped as full quad-channel while the remaining 8GB will be mapped as single-channel. (Obviously, using that system with only one or two sticks will result in the memory controller be constrained to single- or dual-channel mode, respectively.)

Also, the LGA 2011 platform does not officially support a three-stick memory configuration because the memory controller does not have a triple-channel mode. Only single, dual or quad channel configurations are supported.

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New Here ,
May 04, 2012 May 04, 2012

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Dorothy, many thanks for your input. I've now ordered all the components but I've changed out the Corsair memory for the G.Skill Ripsaws (8*4gb). Everything should be with me by next week so the build starts then. If I come across any problems I'll give you a shout for guidance.

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New Here ,
May 04, 2012 May 04, 2012

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Icy, I'm going to give some unasked for guidance - I see you have a RAID controller card, but it looks like you might also be using the Intel onboard RAID controller for a second raid. If that's the case, then - when you get everything working, be sure you set the SATA controller in your Bios to "RAID" and then, WHEN THE WINDOWS INSTALL SHOWS THE LITTLE BOX AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SCREEN THAT SAYS "Load Drivers" STOP!~!! and be sure to load the Intel Rapid Storage drivers that you can put onto a thumb drive from the Asus webpage for your mobo.  I was so anxious to get Windows loaded that I flew right past that last point - even tho I knew about it and even tho I had actually written it down on my startup cheat sheet. Now I'm going to have to reinstall windows after I went thru the updates and some of the tweaking.

If the presence of the Raid controller card obviates the need for the Intel drivers, then just ignore my advice - IO really am a newbie about RAIDS. But I figured you won't mind being forewarned even if you don't need the warning.

Which cooler did you settle on - if it's a liquid cooler, I'd be interested to see your CPU temps - I haven't stressed mine yet or tried to overclock it, and its staying around 34C.

Dorothy

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New Here ,
May 04, 2012 May 04, 2012

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Dorothy, thanks for the 'heads up' advice on the RAID. I decided on the Noctua cooler as you suggested as it seems to be a very good selection for the 3930k cpu. I'll let you know how I get on with the build once everything arrives and I get the change to build and test it.

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LEGEND ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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Just to let you know that the build has really started. First pictures of the case and drive cages have appeared, as well as the tab up to now. Have a look at the original page http://ppbm6.com/Planning.html and go to the panel 'Case' for more details. So, effectively we have now moved into part 2.

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Community Beginner ,
May 17, 2012 May 17, 2012

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Harm,...you should check out the specs on the upcoming Asrock Extreme 11 motherboard, before making your purchase.  Had a company rep confirm to me yesterday that they are close, and it should be ready for shipping in early June.  Crazy number of SATA ports and USB headers, and lots more PCI lanes available that a normal X79 board. 

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LEGEND ,
May 17, 2012 May 17, 2012

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Man oh man I like this rumored board already!

"As far as storage is concerned, ASRock decided that the usual SATA connectivity provided by the Intel X79 PCH is not enough for its flagship motherboard, so it installed a third-party LSI SAS2308 controller.  This adds eight SAS 6Gbps, or eight SATA III, ports to the board thus raising the number of storage devices that can be connected to the X79 Extreme 11 to 14 (10 of these will be able to work at 6Gbps speeds)."

I had been unsucessfully hunting for a motherboard with onboard 4 SATA 6 Gb/s ports that could be used for a four Disk RAID 10 setup but this does it one better with 8 ports WOW!. 

Message was edited by: Bill Gehrke

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Community Beginner ,
May 17, 2012 May 17, 2012

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Yeah, it looks to be pretty incredible.  Lets hope it actually makes it to market.  I'm holding off on purchasing a board right now to see if this one pans out. 

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Guide ,
May 18, 2012 May 18, 2012

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Wow Harm, what a case!!!

Thanks for sharing the saga of your planning and build as it comes together.

Regarding the photo taken of your new case next to "Harm's Beast", it sure makes the "Beast" look pretty wimpy (I know that it is NOT though).

Do you have a name planned for your new system yet - I guess it could be Beast II, Mega Beast, PPBM6 Eater, Beyond the Beast, etc.?

Regards,

Jim

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LEGEND ,
May 18, 2012 May 18, 2012

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Jim,

That case is indeed impressive. I will update and add pictures as the build progresses and components come in. All the cages are now installed, so I have 4 hot swap 2.5" and 15 hot swap 3.5" slots available, plus the other 16 3.5" slots on the PSU side. Just wondering where to get the funding for this massive amount of storage. The CFO (my wife) is not overly enthousiastic to say the least.

As to the name, Bill was the one who came up with the name 'Harm's Beast' back in the early PPBM5 days. Maybe he has another moniker for this machine, but my initial thought was 'Harm's Monster'.

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LEGEND ,
May 18, 2012 May 18, 2012

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'Harm's Monster' it is indeed

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Guide ,
May 19, 2012 May 19, 2012

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Excellent Bill!

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LEGEND ,
May 21, 2012 May 21, 2012

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Magnum17.png

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Explorer ,
May 21, 2012 May 21, 2012

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Christus, wat een monster, geweldig! (crist, what a monster, great!)

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