10 Replies Latest reply: May 3, 2012 11:03 AM by Steve836 RSS

    NTSC equivalent PAL comp settings

    Steve836

      Hi,

       

      I've created a number of NTSC short films in AE CS4. Burned onto DVD using Encore, they play fine. Now, I want to create PAL versions. I think I've worked out the equivalent comp settings to use but I'm not sure. Please can you look over the settings below and let me know if you can foresee any problems in the PAL settings and, if so, offer alternatives. Thanks.

       

      For NTSC I use these comp settings (this is NOT for rendering; please see below for that.)

      Preset - NTSC D1 Widescreen Square Pixel

      Width - 872

      Height - 486

      Pixel aspect ratio - Square pixels

      Frame rate - 29.97

       

      If I want to create PAL versions of these films, what settings should I use for the individual comps, please?

      Is it these?

      Preset - PAL D1/DV Widescreen Square Pixel

      1050

      576

      Pixel aspect - Square Pixel

      Frame rate - 25

       

      The PAL width seems very big, but then that's the default when you choose that PAL preset, so I'm guessing it's right.

       

      RENDERING

      I add all the above NTSC comps to one final comp, which is rendered to m2v using these settings

      Preset - NTSC DV Widescreen

      Width - 720

      Height - 480

      Pixel aspect ratio - D1/DV NTSC Widescreen (1.21)

      Frame rate - 29.97

       

      If I want to render the PAL comps, what are the equivalent settings, please?

      Will they be:

      PAL D1/DV Widescreen

      720

      576

      D1/DV PAL Widescreen (1.46)

      25 frame rate

       

      Thanks for any help,

      Steve

        • 1. Re: NTSC equivalent PAL comp settings
          Dave LaRonde Community Member

          Do you even need to do this?  Every PAL DVD player I know about plays NTSC DVDs just fine.

           

          Do you have any footage in your NTSC comp with a frame rate?  Video?  Image Sequence? 

           

          If yes, you'll need frame rate conversion software Like Re:Vision Twixtor (pricey), and use it on duplicates of the footage.  You can't simply conform the existing footage to 25fps because you'll slow it down and make it longer.    Failing that, you'll have to settle for weird jerky motion from your footage.

           

          If no, or if the goofy motion won't bother you, just nest your NTSC comp in a comp created using the  PAL DV Widescreen preset.  You should be fine in Encore.

          • 2. Re: NTSC equivalent PAL comp settings
            Steve836 Community Member

            Hi Dave,

             

            Thanks for helping out.

             

            No, there are no frame rate issues. Everything was created in AE.

             

            I've heard PAL players will play NTSC, but do all PAL players play NTSC and, if not, what percentage don't? I'd be interested in any stats that anyone has.

             

            The problem is that this DVD is for a small commercial project that will sell predominantly in the US and UK, but potentially anywhere in the world through my website, so it has to play any and all PAL players. Any problems, and I'll get disgruntled emails, refund requests and a bad reputation.

             

            So I could take all the NTSC comps using the settings above, nest them in a PAL comp, again using the settings above that I've listed under RENDER, and everything should be fine? Is it really that simple?

             

            Thanks,

            Steve

            • 3. Re: NTSC equivalent PAL comp settings
              Dave LaRonde Community Member

              No frame rate issues?  You're in luck: this is easier than you think:

               

              Make a comp using the PAL DV Widescreen comp preset.

              Nest the NTSC comp in it.

              Scale the nested comp to fit in the PAL DV Widescreen comp: Cmd-Opt-f Mac, not sure for Win.

              Add the comp to the render queue.

              Adjust Rener Settings and Output Module as necessary.

              Hit the Render button.

               

              That's it.  Seriously.  No other hoops to jump through.

              • 4. Re: NTSC equivalent PAL comp settings
                Mylenium CommunityMVP

                I've heard PAL players will play NTSC, but do all PAL players play NTSC

                 

                All of them do, but some only handle the luma, meaning you only get a greyscale output. More a problem with what chipsets some of them use in combination with how the TV set handles this. Modern LCDs with the DVD player connected via HDMI will usually work fine, if the signal needs to be fed into an older TV via FBAS/ Scart it may show the described behavior. No way to be 100% sure, so if it's not a problem to create separate versions, consider doing it.

                 

                Mylenium

                • 5. Re: NTSC equivalent PAL comp settings
                  Steve836 Community Member

                  Hi Dave,

                   

                  Thanks for the extra info.

                   

                  Just one thing - when you said "image sequences" I was thinking "moving images". I do have still images (photographs) in my comps (with various effects applied in AE) - will that have frame rate implications or not, please?

                   

                  Thanks,

                  Steve

                  • 6. Re: NTSC equivalent PAL comp settings
                    Steve836 Community Member

                    Hi Mylenium,

                     

                    Thanks, that's interesting. A useful point I can add to the FAQ on my site. If the conversion plays out as Dave suggests it may, then creating PAL versions is definitely the easiest solution to avoid longer-term issues.

                     

                    Thanks,

                    Steve

                    • 7. Re: NTSC equivalent PAL comp settings
                      Dave LaRonde Community Member

                      "Image Sequence" is an extremely common term in AE-Land and elsewhere.  I mean REALLY common, as in, "How come you don't know something this basic?" common.

                       

                      One of the best examples of an image sequence would be sequential animation cels from a Disney cartoon.  Viewed separately, they're a series of pictures of Mickey, and he appears to be in slightly different positions from picture to picture.  Projected at 24 fps, Mickey's dancing.

                      • 8. Re: NTSC equivalent PAL comp settings
                        Steve836 Community Member

                        HI Dave,

                         

                        Thanks for the clarification.

                         

                        Unfortunately, I don't live in AE-Land - I've only got a visitor's permit!

                         

                        My images are usually on screen for at least 2 seconds. However, I do have the a couple of montages that flash images up for only 6 frames at a time (at 29.97 frames per sec). Could those pose any problems in the PAL comp or are we good to go?

                         

                        Thanks for your patience with this "tourist"!

                         

                        Steve

                        • 9. Re: NTSC equivalent PAL comp settings
                          Dave LaRonde Community Member

                          Steve836 wrote:

                           

                          Thanks for your patience with this "tourist"!

                           

                           

                          Yeah, well, don't drink the water here without popping one of those purifying tablets in your canteen.

                           

                          2-second images are no problem in the easy method.  Nor are 6-frame images... oh, some may be a frame longer or shorter than you originally intended, but if you can live with that you're good to go. 

                           

                          The alternative to the easy method would be to copy every layer of the 29.97 comp into an identically-sized 25fps comp and tweaking everything, then nesting it in a PAL DV Widescreen comp, scaling to fit & rendering.

                          • 10. Re: NTSC equivalent PAL comp settings
                            Steve836 Community Member

                            Excellent.

                             

                            Thanks for all your help, Dave.

                             

                            P.S. Don't suppose you know if I can do anything similar with Premiere CS4, by any chance, please? I've some PAL camcorder footage (MTS), already edited in Premiere, that I need to convert to NTSC. (No alternative NTSC footage available.) Any chance you know how that could be nested or is the best way to convert to use something like Atlantis or AviSynth? Forum member Neil Wilkes was kind enough to suggest I convert the PAL MTS to 720x480 24p with Adobe Media Encoder, which I'll try at the weekend, but any other suggestions will be most welcome. (Lucky I stocked up on purification tablets, hey?)