15 Replies Latest reply: Jul 25, 2013 6:45 PM by Deveg RSS

    Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link

    lasvideo Community Member

      Im really hoping that there will be the ability to dynamic link from PrP to SG on a clip by clip basis. Most people I know dont work on projects that ever experiences  "Final Lock". Exporting timelines may work great for features, but it sucks for commercial and corporate projects. The ability to DL between PrP and AE would allow me to use SG. Without that ability I will never use SG. Lots of folks I am in contact with echo this sentiment. Heres hoping 

        • 1. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
          lasvideo Community Member

          Typo fix...

           

          The ability to DL between PrP and SG would allow me to use SG. Without that ability I will never use it. Lots of folks I am in contact with echo this sentiment. Heres hoping 

          • 2. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
            Todd_Kopriva Adobe Employee

            There is not a Dynamic Link connection between SpeedGrade and Premiere Pro in the CS6 version. For now, you use the Send To SpeedGrade command in Premiere Pro to create a .ircp file and a sequence of DPX files that are used by SpeedGrade.

             

            It's a good feature request, though, and one that we've heard a lot already.

             

            You can add your vote by making a feature request here:

            http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

            • 3. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
              lasvideo Community Member

              You know me Todd, that request is already in.

              • 4. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
                Picturequest Community Member

                What about, having Premiere able to layer the LUT rendered in SG?

                • 5. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
                  Patrick J. Palmer Adobe Employee

                  Picturequest wrote:

                   

                  What about, having Premiere able to layer the LUT rendered in SG?

                  This is something we got implemented with After Effects and Photoshop CS6. While this is fantastic for previewing a look (= general mood), it doesn't allow for applying a mask or multiple masks, and it also doesn't allow to express a number of the fx filters in SpeedGrade that would require geometry (such as fxBloom, Gaussian Blur). Also, the denoise and the blur function in the secondaries can't be expressed in a LUT. All these limitations are due to the nature of a LUT.

                   

                  The .Look format that SpeedGrade is using contains all the parameters (even in human readable form), so if you indeed go ahead with an official request, LUT is cool, .Look is great

                   

                  Pat

                  • 6. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
                    Karel Bata Community Member

                    You can add your vote by making a feature request here:

                    http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                     

                    Except I don't see Speedgrade on that list...

                     

                    So, yes, one of Adobe's strengths - dynamic linking. Please let's see that in Speedgrade please.

                     

                    And have it work with stereo pairs!

                    • 7. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
                      Patrick J. Palmer Adobe Employee

                      Hi Karel,

                       

                      SpeedGrade works well with stereo pairs - it even automatically loads stereo frame sequences or movie files. Here's some more info in a video tutorial on Adobe TV:

                      http://tv.adobe.com/watch/cs6-creative-cloud-feature-tour-for-video/stereoscopic-workflows -in-speedgrade-cs6/

                       

                      Cheers,

                      Pat

                       

                      Karel Bata wrote:

                       

                      You can add your vote by making a feature request here:

                      http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                       

                      Except I don't see Speedgrade on that list...

                       

                      So, yes, one of Adobe's strengths - dynamic linking. Please let's see that in Speedgrade please.

                       

                      And have it work with stereo pairs!

                      • 8. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
                        Karel Bata Community Member

                        Oh I know that Patrick. I'm very familiar with Speedgrade. Was pleased to hear of its purchase, and looking forward to further integration.

                         

                        I meant having Dynamic Link work with stereo pairs. Quite a challenge I imagine.

                        • 9. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
                          Patrick J. Palmer Adobe Employee

                          aaah, I see! Then we better get you a way of adding to the wish list officially.

                          And I'd agree: you're presenting us with a nice challenge here

                           

                          Pat

                          • 10. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
                            JSS1138 Community Member

                            people I know dont work on projects that ever experiences  "Final Lock".

                             

                            This brings up a fair question.  What is the recommended work flow when client changes are requested?  Clearly, the reedit will occur in PP.  But how do we keep all the work we've already done in SG the first time 'round and apply that to the new edit?  Without Dynamic Link, what is the work flow in such a scenario?  Are we really forced to reexport from PP and redo all our CC and grading?

                            • 11. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
                              Patrick J. Palmer Adobe Employee

                              Jim Simon wrote:

                               

                              people I know dont work on projects that ever experiences  "Final Lock".

                               

                              This brings up a fair question.  What is the recommended work flow when client changes are requested?  Clearly, the reedit will occur in PP.  But how do we keep all the work we've already done in SG the first time 'round and apply that to the new edit?  Without Dynamic Link, what is the work flow in such a scenario?  Are we really forced to reexport from PP and redo all our CC and grading?

                               

                              Hi Jim,

                               

                              there's no perfect answer to this, but let me try to give you a couple of ideas:

                              • SpeedGrade CS6 has some very basic editing features (trim, delete, dissolve, insert black). While I typically wouldn't recommend using SpeedGrade for editing, it has been used in the past sucesfully to apply minor changes (something simple like replacing a title sequence, changing speed or some elements of credits, shortening one particular shot).
                              • If you only need to replace some shots, I'd probably send them to SpeedGrade separately, grade them, render them, insert them in PPro.
                              • If you need something like a different version for other distribution channels (like a horrible 4:3 for the next Lufthansa presentation of your beautiful 2.35:1 footage), that can be done in SpeedGrade itself by using the Pan & Scan track
                              • If you want to work with EDLs and keep the project "hot" for as long as possible, it might be interesting to look into the reconfrom option (this isn't documented yet as it was added rather late in the game - I hope to record a tutorial rather soon). Basically: this will work if you restrict your grading work to the initial layer stack presented in SpeedGrade. You can then use multiple Conforms in one SpeedGrade project and let the application identify which shots are the same from Conform to Confrom (and automatically apply grades based on Reel ID / shot info from the EDL).

                              I am sure other users out there have other ideas, but these are some concepts I have seen being used with good results in the past.

                               

                              Cheers,

                              Pat

                              • 12. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
                                Jeffrey Brink

                                Yea this is a huge issue.  How do we get back to Premiere? I saw this: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77013-Speedgrade-Raw-amp-DPX-Workflow-CS-6  on reduser but exporting to DPX back to Premiere? You'd lose your edits as you would if you rendered uncompressed into a single file - and the latter seems like a huge file to have as an intermediate before your final export.

                                 

                                Premiere should act as the "hub" and every other product a "branch" that you send something to, fix it, and send it back to Premiere for your final render.

                                 

                                I'm also interested in how the conforming works.  So I shouldn't be "sending to speedgrade" from Premiere? And instead I should be exporting an EDL then if I have changes, trying to conform that EDL to the updated EDL? Thanks.

                                • 13. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
                                  lasvideo Community Member

                                  I am convinced that  dynamic link between PrP and SG is the answer a lot of folks ( that have work flows similar to me ) are looking for.

                                  • 14. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
                                    Chris Smith x0h00 Community Member

                                     

                                    Premiere should act as the "hub" and every other product a "branch" that you send something to, fix it, and send it back to Premiere for your final render.

                                     

                                     

                                    I could not agree with this more.  This is what will make this whole thing work for me.  I know it has been mentioned more than a few times that Speed Grade should be last in your render chain.  That doesn't make sense to me coming from commercials.  Where it's *usually* offlined in an Avid, sent to the transfer house to do final color selects, this is reconformed *usually* on a flame/smoke then outputted from there.  However Flames and Smokes have a better timeline than After Effects (if you think of it as your Flame proxy), so it would make sense in the Adobe workflow for everything to go back to Premiere to add bars and tone, go to tape, final outputs, versions, etc AFTER going to Sg for color then AFTER Ae for effects and cleanup.  So, like Jeffery stated, Premiere should be the hub and everything else mirrors the edit but adds it's own contributions.

                                    • 15. Re: Premiere to Speegrade dynamic link
                                      Deveg Community Member

                                      Dynamically linking clip by clip would be a pain in the butt. what Adobe needs to do Is implement round tripping. What would be amazing is if you could send your .prproj sequence to speedgrade, apply looks to clips, and then speedgrade automatically updating premier with the new .look Information. Therefore all of the changes done in speed grade would be instantly reflected in premier. This is my dream. It should not feel like I'm using two applications made by two different companies. The workflow is no different than using Adobe Premiere with black magic resolve and that's ridiculous. Actually blackmagic has more ways to conform timelines than just EDL.