15 Replies Latest reply: May 4, 2012 3:46 PM by JSS1138 RSS

    CS5 and Cineform Converted Files

    Thomas Beach

      I have been having trouble trying to Import files into a new CS5 Project Panel.  The files in question are my original digitized (from Mini-DV) .mp4 video tapes.  The problem is that when I choose to Import and select the original digitized file, the progress bar at the lower right corner of the Premier Pro screen flashes by quickly to completion before disappearing, giving the impression that the file has imported.  However, the file (which shows up in the Project Panel) is not there at all.  There is just an alias of the imported file remaining.  There is also no progress bar as the file is indexed (I'm sorry, I forget the technical term) which led me to believe there was a problem.

       

      I know the person who originally digitized these tapes used Cineform conversion.  I believe the reason at the time was to better work with After Effects?  I really can't say, however.

       

      So my question is this:  Could the problem of not being able to Import these .mp4 files (a RAID drive inside my computer) into the Project Panel be because of the Cineform conversion done at the time?  If not, are there any other suggestions as to why these files wouldn't Import?  Everything I've found tells me that PP CS5 should be able to Import and edit .mp4 file types without any issues.

       

      I would appreciate any advice on this as I am left with no alternative but to rent a Sony deck and redigitize all of my tapes in order to solve what I hope is the problem.  Naturally, this deck rental will be quite expensive and I don't want to spend that money if in fact, there is another reason for the .mp4 file rejection and I might still be able to use those original digitized files.

       

      Thanks much.

       

      Tom

        • 1. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
          JSS1138 Community Member

          You have three terms that all contradict each other - DV, Cineform and MP4.  The files will be only one of those, but can't possibly be all three.

           

          So, if they have the .mp4 extension, they're neither Cineform nor DV files.  If order to be Cineform or DV files, they will have the .avi extension.

           

          If they came from MiniDV tape, there would have been little point in converting them to Cineform.

           

          So...my point here is that your reported data is very, very confusing, and likely not entirely accurate.  Which makes it difficult for us to help.

          • 2. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
            Thomas Beach Community Member

            I appreciate your response and pointing out the incorrect information I unknowingly passed along.  Yes, I have an entrie set of other files with the .avi extension.  Those have a Time Code window burn for the rough edit.  Now that I am ready to confrom my edit, I have been trying to import the original .mp4 extension files into a new project, which are the same tapes without the window burn TC.  These are the files which will not show up in my project panel when I use the Import command.  I know from the transfer logs that cineform-converted files were a part of the original digitizing process.  I presumed, incorrectly, that the .mp4 files were the files created via Cineform. 

             

            So to confirm, the .mp4 files (those without the window-burn TC) are the files I am trying to work with, but which will not import.  Any additional help now that we've cleared up my misinformation, would be very much appreciated.

             

            I have checked project settings and have tried various other codec selections.  But in all instances, the .mp4 files simply will not Import.

             

            Thanks

            • 3. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
              Harm Millaard CommunityMVP

              Things will improve markedly if you follow the normal capture route with mini-DV material.

              • 4. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
                John T Smith CommunityMVP

                >files in question are my original digitized (from Mini-DV)

                 

                The usual process with Mini-DV tape cameras is to connect via Firewire and then you simply transfer the ALREADY DIGITIAL data from tape to computer (Firewire is nothing but a glorified serial port for file transfers)

                 

                In any event, you now need to find out what is really inside the files you have that will not import

                 

                Read Bill Hunt on a file type as WRAPPER http://forums.adobe.com/thread/440037

                What is a CODEC... a Primer http://forums.adobe.com/thread/546811

                What CODEC is INSIDE that file? http://forums.adobe.com/thread/440037

                .

                Report back with the codec details of your file, use the programs below... a screen shot works well to SHOW people what you are doing

                .

                For PC http://www.headbands.com/gspot/ or http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en

                For Mac http://mediainspector.massanti.com/

                .

                http://blogs.adobe.com/premiereprotraining/2011/02/red-yellow-and-green-render-bars.html

                .

                If you have a red line over the timeline after importing a video and before adding any effects... your project is wrong for your video... read above about codecs

                .

                Once you know exactly what it is you are editing, report back with that information... and your project setting, and if there is a red line above the video in the timeline, which indicates a mismatch between video and project

                .

                H.264 will NOT work inside an AVI wrapper http://forums.adobe.com/thread/854115

                .

                More information needed for someone to help... click these links and provided the requested information

                -http://forums.adobe.com/message/4200840

                -http://forums.adobe.com/thread/416679

                .

                For CS5 and later, the easy way to insure that your video and your project match

                See 2nd post for picture of NEW ITEM process http://forums.adobe.com/thread/872666

                • 5. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
                  JSS1138 Community Member

                  the .mp4 files are the files I am trying to work with

                   

                  OK.

                   

                  Where exactly did those files come from?

                  • 6. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
                    Thomas Beach Community Member

                    I very much appreciate the efforts to help me with this problem.  I am going to read all of the linked material and re-post requested screen shot and info in order to properly follow up.  Thanks again.  I will be in touch soon.

                     

                    Jim, the files were generated from Mini-DV tapes which were camera-transfered to HD.  As I mentioned, there were two sets of files created, one with a window-burn TC (.avi) and the others non-window-burned TC (.mp4).  I was told at the time by the guy who did the transfers to edit with the smaller .avi files and then when ready to conform the edit, to use the .mp4 files.  I had no difficulties in editing the .avi files.  I am only having trouble with the .mp4 files, both of which resided on the same HD which I of course had to transfer over to my internal HD Raid.  THey have remained there since.

                     

                    One of the issues I have in learning how to use CS5 is in the fact that Adobe has chosen not to make a printed user manual availabe for purchase.  While I have tried, my eyes are simply not up to the task of reading hundreds and hundreds of pages online.  And the purchased Adobe CS5 Classroom in a Book is of very limited usefulness.  So anything you can direct me to to purchase to read in print form would be appreciated.  And spending thousands of dollars on certified training programs in Chicago just isn't in the cards.

                     

                    Again, my thanks.  I will get back to you all with requested information just as soon as I can.

                     

                    Tom

                    • 7. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
                      John T Smith CommunityMVP

                      >guy who did the transfers

                       

                      What you describe would seem to indicate that this "guy" did not know what he was doing

                       

                      Mini DV tapes are already in a digital format, and there is NO increase in quality in transferring to anything other than DV AVI

                       

                      Your DV AVI files "should" be about 13gig per hour of video... if they are smaller, your "guy" did something to the files after the transfer to reduce the file size and quality

                       

                      Is there any way to go back to the original tapes and have a "guy" who knows what he is doing transfer the files over firewire?

                       

                      Yours is the first message I can remember reading, going back to the OLD Premiere 6 days, where someone has transferred Mini DV to something other than DV AVI

                      • 8. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
                        JSS1138 Community Member

                        the files were generated from Mini-DV tapes

                         

                        Ok, good.

                         

                        Next question.  Was the original media shot at DV resolution (standard definition) or in HDV (high definition)?

                        • 9. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
                          Thomas Beach Community Member

                          That would make sense as I have had no problems with the .avi file types during my rough editing.  However, as I had mentioned, those files all had a window-burn TC on them, making them useless for my conformed/final edit.  That was what led me back to the .mpeg files (no TC burn).  So from what you're saying John, I will most likely have to do a reimporting of from the original camera Mini-DV tapes to my computer as .avi files without the TC burn in order to get back to where I belong?

                           

                          To address your post, I checked both file types:  .avi files are roughly 12.3GB per hour.  But the .mpeg files are actually less, averaging between 8GB and 11.0GB per hour.  I presume this discrepancy relates possibly to your reference that he did something to the files after the transfer?

                           

                          I have included a couple of screen shots after downloading and using GSpot as you requested.

                           

                          This first image is the GSpot window for the .mpeg file (the problem files)

                           

                          Capture #1.PNG

                          This screen shot is of an .avi file (window-burn TC non-problem file)

                           

                          Capture 3 .PNG

                          I won't defend the "guy" in question as he presented himself as something of an expert on the post side of production.  Clearly that is not the case.  But having said that, I am obviously even lesser so.

                           

                          I don't know what you might gain from the screen shots.  But I look forward to your thoughts after looking at them.

                           

                          Thanks

                          • 10. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
                            Thomas Beach Community Member

                            Jim, the media was HDV.  The resolutions were between 1080i (Canon) 720P (JVC) and 1080p (Sony).  What I mean by that is that we were forced to use three different cameras over the length of the shoot.

                            • 11. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
                              JSS1138 Community Member

                              OK.

                               

                              None of those cameras (assuming alll tape based HDV models) will generate MP4 files.  Which means the MP4 versions you have are conversions.  You're best bet is to get your hands on the original captured media, which will all have an .m2v extension.

                              • 12. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
                                Ann Bens CommunityMVP

                                which will all have an .m2v extension .

                                 

                                Premiere captures hdv files as .mpeg and hdv-split/Vegas as m2t.

                                • 13. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
                                  JSS1138 Community Member

                                  Than you for the correction.

                                  • 14. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
                                    Thomas Beach Community Member

                                    I have been able to confirm that the original captured media is .mpeg (no TC window burn) and .avi (TC window burn). There are duplicates of each tape, one in each format. I need to apologize.  I don't know where I got .mpeg4 from as I previously referrenced.  They appear to be simply .mpeg files.

                                     

                                    I also ran another check trying to import these .mpeg files and while the files showed up in my Porject Panel, some of them when played were out-of-synch with audio.  Also, while the Source Monitor showed the video properly sized, the Program Monitor had enlarged the same video (Fit selected).  So am I on the right track to making the original .mpeg files work? 

                                     

                                    Also, what if anything were you able to glean from the GSpot panel pictures I supplied?  My initial concern is that the .mpeg files showed absolutely nothing.  Does this mean I am short a needed codec?  Would the audio synch issue be related to what Bill wrote about in his article?

                                     

                                    If these .mpeg files are standard type files for Premiere Pro, could the issue be the codec I am choosing or should be choosing?  Given the GSpot results (nothing listed), is there a suggestion as to which direction I should go next to make these existing .mpeg files work in my project?

                                     

                                    Thanks

                                    • 15. Re: CS5 and Cineform Converted Files
                                      JSS1138 Community Member

                                      what if anything were you able to glean from the GSpot panel pictures I supplied?

                                       

                                      That whoever told you to edit with the AVI proxies was off their rocker.  Life would have been much simpler had you just used the original MPEG for editing.