23 Replies Latest reply: May 17, 2012 1:52 AM by Vienna_Sydney RSS

    Bridge CS5 Cache

    Vienna_Sydney Community Member

      I had assumed that if I compacted the cache, it would remove items that have been deleted. Having just removed about 100 pictures and then compacted the cache, I found that the deleted items are all still in the cache. Do I really have to manually deleted the cache to remove them, or is there another way?

       

      Bridge is configured to keep 100% Previews in Cache

        • 1. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
          Curt Y Community Member

          Are you also exporting cache to folders?  If so you have 2 cache files.  See this link http://helpx.adobe.com/bridge/kb/cache-bridge-cs4-cs5.html

           

           

          Compacting the cache removes obsolete database records and the JPEG files associated with those records.  Perhaps you have to reboot Bridge after deleting files for it to recognize change?

          • 2. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
            Omke Oudeman Community Member

            I had assumed that if I compacted the cache, it would remove items that have been deleted. Having just removed about 100 pictures and then compacted the cache, I found that the deleted items are all still in the cache. Do I really have to manually deleted the cache to remove them, or is there another way?

             

             

            Agreed that the logic of compact cache is not clear, nor what it does.

             

            Personal I don't bother anymore with compact for the same reason you describe. I see Bridge as a temporarily file manager and use Canto Cumulus for DAM to manage my archived files.

             

            If the size of the cache starts to bother me I just delete the complete cache file manually and start again with a new, fresh but empty cache file and do need to recache the lot but I have no problem with that.

             

            Depending on amount and file size this can take some time but it would rarely exceed an overnight job for normal users.

             

             

            Bridge is configured to keep 100% Previews in Cache

             

             

            That only means it stores the data from files you actually did enlarge to 100 %. This data is stored in the central cache file folder and called 'full'

             

            The other folders are '256' (thumbnail only), 1024 (HQ preview) and 'data' (the Bridge database).

             

            You seem to be able and quite Bridge, manual delete the folder called full and restart Bridge to create a new and empty 'full' folder. Personally I would prefer to delete the whole cache folder

            • 3. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
              Vienna_Sydney Community Member

              Curt Y wrote:

               

              Are you also exporting cache to folders?  If so you have 2 cache files.  See this link http://helpx.adobe.com/bridge/kb/cache-bridge-cs4-cs5.html

               

               

              Compacting the cache removes obsolete database records and the JPEG files associated with those records.  Perhaps you have to reboot Bridge after deleting files for it to recognize change?

              No, I am not exporting the cache and rebooting Bridge doesn't remove the obsolete items

              • 4. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                Vienna_Sydney Community Member

                That only means it stores the data from files you actually did enlarge to 100 %. This data is stored in the central cache file folder and called 'full'

                 

                The other folders are '256' (thumbnail only), 1024 (HQ preview) and 'data' (the Bridge database).

                 

                You seem to be able and quite Bridge, manual delete the folder called full and restart Bridge to create a new and empty 'full' folder. Personally I would prefer to delete the whole cache folder

                I don't think this is quite correct. The "full" folder only contains a few items from a few directories. Only 5 from a folder of 2000. I have experimented by clicking on files, expanding them to maximum size, but they were not added to the "full" folder.

                 

                I have on occasions deleted the cache, but rebuilding the cache with 80,000 items takes some time. This should not even be necessary

                • 5. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                  Omke Oudeman Community Member

                  I don't think this is quite correct. The "full" folder only contains a few items from a few directories. Only 5 from a folder of 2000. I have experimented by clicking on files, expanding them to maximum size, but they were not added to the "full" folder.

                   

                  Then there is something wrong with either your install or your system (or you on Mac or Windows)

                   

                  The moment I hit the magnifier the image starts to build the 100% preview (I have set quality to always HQ preview and only use 100 % on demand) the file is added to the full folder.

                   

                  e.g. a 21 MP Canon EOS 1Ds3 file converted to DNG does after normal cache results in 2 jpeg cache files ('filename'.dng.jpg) and after hitting magnifier for 100% in 3 files. With in mind different subjects provide smaller or larger jpeg here the file sizes for this particular file.

                  1 in the folder 254 (30 kb)

                  1 in the folder 1024 (1,9 MB)

                  1 in the folder full (6,1 MB)

                   

                   

                  I have on occasions deleted the cache, but rebuilding the cache with 80,000 items takes some time. This should not even be necessary

                   

                   

                  Although I'm a big fan of Bridge I keep repeating that using it for DAM on large amounts of files might not be the best idea. I stopped with this DAM use already in CS3 after discovering that Bridge predecessor 'File Browser' (PSCS1) cache files needed replaced by Bridge 1 that came with CS2 and again a new cache method for Bridge 2 in CS3. Bridge CS3 was also very unstable. CS4 had again a new cache as did CS5

                   

                  CS5 and CS6 seem to share the structure but I'm not sure it is wise to copy the CS5 cache to the CS6 folder and be ready for use.

                   

                  Also the way chosen for caching is not very suitable for Digital Asset Management to my opinion. The cache file grows to fast to huge proportions (see example above, with 1 21 MP DNG file viewed at 100% the total result is 8 MB data, nearly half the size of its original...)

                   

                  Searching in Bridge is very slow and the quick search only meant for the folder pointed in the content window.

                   

                  So after having used both iView Media Pro and Extensis Portfolio as DAM for my archive with keepers (around 60.000 at the moment) I still was not happy and ended up with the single user version of Canto Cumulus.

                   

                  Canto is very fast in building the cache (only 1 or 2 hours for this amount of files), lightning fast in searching and the total amount of the cache file for this 60.000 files archive is less then 3 GB.

                   

                  Having used CS6 beta for the past months and about 20.000 files cached this already resulted in a cache file of 25 GB...

                   

                  Also Bridge is not meant to use over a network, especially multiple users can be very tricky (different libraries on user levels) and we should keep in mind that Bridge still comes for free with PS or other CS suite applications and a real DAM is not free

                  • 6. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                    Yammer Community Member

                    Bridge only builds 100% previews if selected from the toolbar, and/or if you zoom the full-screen image.

                    I too have noticed that deleted images sometimes remain in the cache after a compaction. I put this down to one of two possibilities: (1) the cache was orphaned after moving/deleting images outside Bridge; (2) a bug in Bridge's database handling (my favourite, for other reasons).

                    • 7. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                      Vienna_Sydney Community Member

                      Searching in Bridge is very slow and the quick search only meant for the folder pointed in the content window.

                       

                      So after having used both iView Media Pro and Extensis Portfolio as DAM for my archive with keepers (around 60.000 at the moment) I still was not happy and ended up with the single user version of Canto Cumulus.

                       

                      Canto is very fast in building the cache (only 1 or 2 hours for this amount of files), lightning fast in searching and the total amount of the cache file for this 60.000 files archive is less then 3 GB.

                       

                      Having used CS6 beta for the past months and about 20.000 files cached this already resulted in a cache file of 25 GB...

                       

                      Also Bridge is not meant to use over a network, especially multiple users can be very tricky (different libraries on user levels) and we should keep in mind that Bridge still comes for free with PS or other CS suite applications and a real DAM is not free

                      I do realise that searching is slow, but I use Bridge as part of the work flow. It has become an invaluable part for me for many years. I have also made LR4 part of my workflow, but these 2 programs don't really compliment each other. However, this is not part of this thread

                      • 8. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                        Vienna_Sydney Community Member

                        Yammer P wrote:

                         

                        Bridge only builds 100% previews if selected from the toolbar, and/or if you zoom the full-screen image.

                        I too have noticed that deleted images sometimes remain in the cache after a compaction. I put this down to one of two possibilities: (1) the cache was orphaned after moving/deleting images outside Bridge; (2) a bug in Bridge's database handling (my favourite, for other reasons).

                        You are correct, this is selected from the toolbar, I had selected "Always High Quality", so the previews were only built when zooming in. If I just space click to preview the image full screen (all my files are), no full preview is created.

                         

                        I almost never delete files out of Bridge, so this can't be a problem. Perhaps I don't have any other choice, but to delete the relative cache folder and rebuild it if deleting a large amount of files.

                        • 9. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                          Vienna_Sydney Community Member

                          I have made some more tests and have the following results:

                           

                          Had Bridge and LR4 open (the same folder).

                          Deleted a file out of LR, the file was instantly removed from Bridge and also from the cache!.

                          Closed Bridge and deleted another file from LR.

                          Opened Bridge, the file was gone, but was still there in cache.

                          Compacting cache did not remove the files from the cache.

                          Deleted a file from within Bridge.

                          The file was still in the cache.

                          Again, compacting the cache did not remove it

                          • 10. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                            Omke Oudeman Community Member

                            You are correct, this is selected from the toolbar, I had selected "Always High Quality", so the previews were only built when zooming in. If I just space click to preview the image full screen (all my files are), no full preview is created.

                             

                            A full screen preview is not the same as 100 % preview. 100 % shows about the actual size of the pixels and a full screen preview just fills the screen.

                             

                            Having used space bar for full screen and clicking with your mouse generates the 100 % preview. You can also use the scroll wheel for further magnification, the enlarged percentage is shown on screen or under the preview itself.

                             

                            For optimal full screen you should have checked the option to 'generate monitor-size previews' in the Bridge Prefs advanced section.

                             

                             

                            I almost never delete files out of Bridge, so this can't be a problem. Perhaps I don't have any other choice, but to delete the relative cache folder and rebuild it if deleting a large amount of files.

                             

                             

                            Bridge and Lightroom are very different in approach. Lightroom uses a library set up (by default hidden in a Library folder) and also stores previews and different size versions inhere.

                             

                            Bridge is only a file browser and reflects the contents of your disk.

                             

                            If you for what ever reason delete a file using lightroom or OS or other application Bridge will not show it anymore because it does no longer exist.

                             

                            As said before, the logic would be that files that have been deleted also delete from cache. This might be a bit harder when you don't use Bridge to delete (how will Bridge know the file is deleted, might be hard to write in software) but when having used Bridge itself to delete the cache should also be deleted.

                             

                            However there seems very little to none logic in Bridge Cache. And to be honest, the cache format used for the Filebrowser with CS1 is the only one that ever worked flawlessly for me, including exported cache files.

                             

                            The cache for Bridge has given me many troubles from the start, with CS3 (Bridge 2) as worst ever...

                            • 11. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                              Vienna_Sydney Community Member

                              Actually, all versions of Bridge had given me problems in the past, including CS5. The problems disappeared when I unselected "Automatically Export Cache To Folders When Possible". Up until then, I got blurry photos at various times, having to purge the cache for the selected items. It was an absolute pain......

                              • 12. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                                Omke Oudeman Community Member

                                The problems disappeared when I unselected "Automatically Export Cache To Folders When Possible".

                                 

                                This seems to be a bothersome setting, for the past 3 cycles I have not been able to use this option because the second time I alter or add files to a folder with exported cache already written to the message pops up that there was a problem writing to the .CacheT. file due to a disk error.

                                 

                                A long standing bug that does happen only for a few people and still has no solution.

                                 

                                As said, Bridge is a nice (very nice) workflow for all action up to the state of archiving files, after that I have a very steady workflow for DAM with Canto Cumulus, that on its turn is not so good in tasks where Bridge exceeds in ..

                                • 13. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                                  MikeKPhoto Community Member

                                  Adding to this thread is a general question of cahe management. I looked at my instance of Bridge Cache and had well over 200 GB of Cache files. Inspecting shows images/previews, I had client images I had archived off many, many moths ago; and highly doubtful I would ever access them again. So how do foilks here manage their cache? I know disk space is relatively cheap, but to hold onto stuff that I doubt would be used again, makes sense to me to get rid of.

                                   

                                  I am thinking a cache management tool, or options where you can move out or delete cache entries without having to resort to a brute force purge cache or the time consuming exercise of hand deleting stuff from the cache.

                                   

                                  Thoughts, suggestions?

                                   

                                  MK

                                  • 14. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                                    Omke Oudeman Community Member

                                    Thoughts, suggestions?

                                     

                                    Enough thoughts but when it comes to suggestions it is not that easy. Bridge Cache has always been getting you in trouble and the cache size is one of them.

                                     

                                    It is not that space is an issue but I think such a big cache file might also slow down the reading of existing folders when reopened.

                                     

                                    Anyway, as said for suggestions you should know something about the technical part of software development for ability of ideas and also be aware of the huge task it is that eats up many hours and resources.

                                     

                                    I'm just a photographer and a user so don't count me in on the technical part. Their are advantages in current cache (nice and good previews) but very much disadvantages like slow when in comes to reading a new folder in a new window, especially folders with large amount of large files. Caching building previews is getting faster but still for many not fast enough. Resaving files again and again when adding metadata, renaming and keywording is a big task when needing a lot of different keywords (you have to wait for recaching of altered files before going to next task.

                                     

                                     

                                    However my solution for cache problems over the years has been not to use Bridge as DAM for my archive to rely on (Use Canto Cumulus for that) but just every now and then dump the cache file manually and start with an empty but fresh cache file.

                                     

                                    I usually work with a few main folders (some with several thousands of files, most of the series in stacks for better oversight). Folders divided in to do, in progress and finished for transition to client and archive. So recaching is not that big a task for me and will normally be done in just a few hours overnight.

                                    • 15. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                                      Curt Y Community Member

                                      I use embedded thumbs so the cache size is minimal.  But this option does not work for everyone.

                                       

                                      Every so often I compact the cache and and see the file size shrink considerbably.  For the number of files I have this takes about 10 min.

                                       

                                      If you use the big gun and purge all the central cache you are left with the task of reindexing everything.  This can take awhile.  I think the best way for autopilot is to do a search starting at the top of the folder tree and check the box "include non-indexed files".

                                       

                                      You should see the screens "indexing xxx folder" as it marches through your files.  If you start search at night then it can run and hopefully be done by morning. 

                                       

                                      If you have a lot of files and even overnight it may still take too long.  So see where it is at in the morning, stop search, and then next night start on that folder.  Have never tried this as don't have that many files, but seems like it should work.

                                      • 16. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                                        Vienna_Sydney Community Member

                                        Over the years I found that it wasn't the size of the cache that slowed everything, but the amount of files in each individual folder. Before the latest PC upgrade, I had to limit my CR2 files folders to about 1200 pictures. Splitting the folders helped an enormous amount.

                                         

                                        One could always move files that are never looked at to external storage, such as external USB drives

                                        • 17. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                                          Curt Y Community Member

                                          Don't know if there is some magic number, but I too try to limit the number of pictures in a folder to 1200 - 1500. 

                                          • 18. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                                            Yammer Community Member

                                            I have a multi-tier system, with a single shoot at the top. It works for me, but it's heavy on folders...

                                             

                                            DSLR>2012>05-14 Place 1

                                            DSLR>2012>05-14 Place 2

                                            DSLR>2012>05-15 Place 3

                                             

                                            Most of my shoots contain 20–200 images. I find that I can sometimes break them up if there's too many, and they are easier to manage. Also, that cursed thumbnail/preview regeneration is quicker with smaller folders.

                                            • 19. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                                              Vienna_Sydney Community Member

                                              One thing that has helped using Bridge was the installation of a caching SSD for the main HDD. Now Bridge opens lightning fast and once thumbnails are generated, switching folders is a dream. There are no delays whatsoever. This refers to a PC

                                              • 20. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                                                Omke Oudeman Community Member

                                                One thing that has helped using Bridge was the installation of a caching SSD for the main HDD. Now Bridge opens lightning fast and once thumbnails are generated, switching folders is a dream. There are no delays whatsoever. This refers to a PC

                                                 

                                                 

                                                That's very interesting, maybe it will be the same on a Mac?

                                                 

                                                But more curious for performance after having used it a while, in my experience Bridge always starts fast and will slow down after using it intensively

                                                 

                                                Could you keep us posted?

                                                • 21. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                                                  Vienna_Sydney Community Member

                                                  But more curious for performance after having used it a while, in my experience Bridge always starts fast and will slow down after using it intensively

                                                   

                                                  Could you keep us posted?

                                                   

                                                  Perhaps you have configured Bridge to start Bridge at log-on, which I had disabled. The software for the caching disk I use is only suitable for Windows 7.

                                                   

                                                  Have been testing it now for 2 weeks. Before that, tested it on an older PC, with a smaller cache SSD, which performed beyond my expectations. This was tested over 4 weeks, with Bridge, PS CS5 and LR4. I am not sure if I allowed to mention brand names in this forum, but all brands perform similar

                                                  • 22. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                                                    Omke Oudeman Community Member

                                                    Perhaps you have configured Bridge to start Bridge at log-on, which I had disabled. The software for the caching disk I use is only suitable for Windows 7.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    Yes I have Bridge starting at log in but that never has been a problem on a Mac to my knowledge. Only the odd thing is that the default setting in Bridge Prefs leaves the application hidden. So I have bypassed that setting and use my System prefs to start a few applications on start up.

                                                     

                                                    And I also have set my machine to start up every day on the same time, after having started all the applications it runs a maintenance script. So when I enter my office I can start working almost immediately

                                                     

                                                    Having Bridge active and showing instead of active and hidden makes a big difference. Having it hidden on start up it needs to read cache and filter panel first and this takes away the advantage of time because that process takes about as long as starting Bridge manual...

                                                    • 23. Re: Bridge CS5 Cache
                                                      Vienna_Sydney Community Member

                                                      Yes I have Bridge starting at log in but that never has been a problem on a Mac to my knowledge. Only the odd thing is that the default setting in Bridge Prefs leaves the application hidden. So I have bypassed that setting and use my System prefs to start a few applications on start up.

                                                       

                                                       

                                                       

                                                      I should have been more specific. I meant that your Bridge starts faster, as it most likely starts at log-on. I turned mine off when using CS4, as it kept on rearranging my icons every time. It was suggested then that I turn auto-start off, which, as it turned out, was the culprit. I am not sure if this was fixed in CS5, as I never tried it again.

                                                       

                                                      The time mine takes to read cache and filter panel is almost negligible. When I had a larger amount of items in a directory, it used to take a long time every time I went back and fourth between directories. It used to drive me almost nuts, as sometimes it would take three times as long to read the cache the second time, as the first time.

                                                       

                                                      All this is now in the past, using the cache SSD, no lags at all moving between folders. Bridge starts in 3 seconds, including cache, filter and metadata panels - in a directory with 1200 Canon CR2 large raw files