18 Replies Latest reply: May 15, 2012 12:34 PM by Cornelia-I RSS

    Sorting/moving physical images question

    George in Seattle Community Member

      I am trying to automate the sorting and movement of older photos into my preferred directory arrangement of capture year/day shown here:

      2.jpg

       

      From directories of older directories that were imported before I started using year/day:

      3.jpg

       

      This would be very tedious to do manually.   My next idea is to re-import them with MOVE option, but I would lose all the editing.  Is there any way to re-import these while preserving the edit steps?

        • 1. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
          Ian Lyons ACP/MVPs

           

          This would be very tedious to do manually.   My next idea is to re-import them with MOVE option, but I would lose all the editing.  Is there any way to re-import these while preserving the edit steps?

           

          1. Select the files

          2. Choose Save Metadata to file from Metadata menu. This will save your edits as XMP sidecar or ino the metadata header of each file

          3. Remove the files from Lr catalog

          4. Reimport files

          • 2. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
            c.frans w Community Member

            I think the OP wants to preserve the History steps.

             

            Frans

            • 3. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
              dj_paige Community Member

              There is no way to preserve the edit steps when you export or write metadata

              • 4. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                Ian Lyons ACP/MVPs

                Other than the user them a comfy blanket most history steps in Lr are as useful a handlful of melting snow. The only edit adjustments of any value are those associated with current slider position.

                • 5. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                  George in Seattle Community Member

                  Ian Lyons wrote:

                   

                  Other than the user them a comfy blanket most history steps in Lr are as useful a handlful of melting snow. The only edit adjustments of any value are those associated with current slider position.

                  You are correct --I dont need the history steps as much as I want to have them organized.  The current settings will do.  Thanks!

                  • 6. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                    Jim Wilde Community Member

                    Be aware that as well as the edit history steps, the following bits of information are also not written to XMP so would be lost when you remove and re-import: collection membership, flags, virtual copies, stacks.

                    • 7. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                      Bob Gates Community Member

                      You could view all photos and filter by date, then move each date into your dated folders.

                      • 8. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                        Cornelia-I Community Member

                        Yes, that would be my preferred option, too.

                         

                        It proves something else, though:

                        You can achieve this by filtering rules.

                        So there is no need to have the folders organized like this.

                         

                        You could as well leave the images where they are and create the same structure as collections:

                        1 collection set per year,

                        Inside smart collections per date, you just have to define them.

                        As you have with the missing date folders for already imported images.

                         

                        Such a folder structure i.o. a collection structure is just convenient for future imports, as you can have LR autocreate them as destination folders during import.

                         

                        It is always amazing how much most people cling to folder structure (myself not excluded) when bigger buckets would do, as collection organization does it as well and is available from every module.

                        "Fingers off!" from file organizing on operating system- file browser level is valid anyhow.

                        So why do we stick to folders so much?

                         

                        Cornelia

                        • 9. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                          dj_paige Community Member

                          treborsetag wrote:

                           

                          You could view all photos and filter by date, then move each date into your dated folders.

                          What a great idea!

                           

                          Let's take this one step further. The original poster already, using this great idea, has the ability to find photos by date. So having folders by date is redundant. Not only that, having folders by date is redundant! (Oh, wait I just said that, I am being redundant). You don't need to spend a lot of time and effort to create folders by date, because you already have the ability to find your photos by date. You gain nothing by putting in all this effort. Lots of effort for no benefit ... I don't like the sound of that.

                           

                          In my mind, the best  course of action is to leave your photos where they are, and put your effort into using Lightroom's other tools (keywords, captions, title) to organize via the content of the photos. And of course, if you need to find the photos from Aug 8, 2010, you can do so without having done the work to make folders by date.

                          • 10. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                            dj_paige Community Member

                            Cornelia-I wrote:

                             

                            Yes, that would be my preferred option, too.

                             

                            It proves something else, though:

                            You can achieve this by filtering rules.

                            So there is no need to have the folders organized like this.

                            I agree, leave the folders alone.

                             

                             

                             

                            You could as well leave the images where they are and create the same structure as collections:

                            1 collection set per year,

                            Inside smart collections per date, you just have to define them.

                            As you have with the missing date folders for already imported images.

                             

                            Why? You already have the ability to find photos by calendar year, or year/month, or year/month/date in the filter bar, or in smart collections. What is the benefit of specifically creating collections for year, or for year/month, or year/month/date?

                             

                            Furthermore, I always argue against calendar based organizing. You have thousands (tens of thousands?) of photos. Do you really remember the year/month/date of all of those thousands (tens of thousands?) photos? Do you really remember what year you took that photo of the kids at the beach? Will you remember five years from now? Of course not.

                             

                            When it comes time to locate a photo, are you thinking of photos by content? Yes. You don't think to yourself, I want the photos from august 12, 2010. You think to yourself, I want the photos from our vacation to Boston. If you are going to spend effort organizing, organize by content. Organize by keywords, captions titles and other metadata.

                            • 11. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                              Cornelia-I Community Member

                              Too true.

                               

                              But the only convenience reason for having a collection structure is if you want to go to another module like print or slideshow from it.

                              Without you first have to do the library filter, select all results, then move on to the other module.

                               

                              I agree that such uses may be temporary, usually closer to capturing time when you are still creating the output to share with others.

                              So you can trash the collections aftwards.

                               

                              Giving good thought to how to make head or tail of your image heritage years from now, together with your archiving strategy, is the (digital asset management) reason for LR for non-professionals, in my opinion.

                               

                              Cornelia

                              • 12. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                                George in Seattle Community Member

                                treborsetag wrote:

                                 

                                You could view all photos and filter by date, then move each date into your dated folders.

                                That was going to be the next option, but reimporting them worked well because the vast majority most of them were pre-lightroom and had no history.

                                • 13. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                                  George in Seattle Community Member

                                  Cornelia-I wrote:

                                   

                                  It is always amazing how much most people cling to folder structure (myself not excluded) when bigger buckets would do, as collection organization does it as well and is available from every module.

                                  "Fingers off!" from file organizing on operating system- file browser level is valid anyhow.

                                  So why do we stick to folders so much?

                                   

                                  Cornelia

                                   

                                  I have a couple reasons for physically arranging them by year/day:  By far it is the most efficient way for me to look them up. When someone requests a photo, it is usually only by a verbal image description, and the date of an event. The fastest way for me to locate it is by capture date.  This particular directory arrangement limits the number of  directories to 365/year containing roughly the same manageable number of  files (average about 250) per day.  I simply expand the year on the left in gallery mode, click the date and locate the photo.  I can quickly use my own eyeballs on this average number of daily files.  This is much faster than trying to set up a search on a date, or for keywords that may or may not have existed then.  The way I use it, the natural sort order should be by year/date.  It is also the way I want to see them in Bridge on the rare occasions I use that.  And LR can do this automatically for new imports so it is not like I have to expend any effort to arrange them, going forward.

                                   

                                  If the total size grows too large for one backup media, I would want them archived by year.  This was a concern a few years ago but not so much now.  Drive capacity appears to be increasing faster than I can shoot pictures.

                                   

                                  And in the end, folders are certain to transcend any product to form a starting point in the event Lightroom ever becomes unviable as an option.  I had bad experience with mp3 management and iTunes a while back which causes me to be mindful of physical arrangement.

                                  • 14. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                                    Ian Lyons ACP/MVPs

                                    George,

                                     

                                    Did my original answer provide a satifactory solution. If not, then it would useful for the future to understand why.

                                     

                                    Thanks

                                    • 15. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                                      Ian Lyons ACP/MVPs

                                      For some follk (I include myself) find a workflow based on storing files in a folder by date is perfectly satifactory. Others prefer to use Collections and Smart Collections. Te second group tend to use workflow based around Peter Krogh's bucket system. The latter approach is dependent on metadata for it to work effeciently whereas the former doesn't. Once metadata is added to a file then there is precious little advantage to the bucket system inside Lr. Sure we may have a lot more folders, but they can be ignored if user uses collection/smart collections in the same way as folk using bucket system would use them.

                                      • 16. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                                        George in Seattle Community Member

                                        Ian Lyons wrote:

                                         

                                        George,

                                         

                                        Did my original answer provide a satifactory solution. If not, then it would useful for the future to understand why.

                                         

                                        Thanks

                                         

                                        Yes.  That worked well on the first batch, and I plan to use it on the others.  There only additional step/consideration was whether or not to import with 2012 process. I opted for 2010.   Thanks!

                                        • 17. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                                          George in Seattle Community Member

                                          Ian Lyons wrote:

                                           

                                          For some follk (I include myself) find a workflow based on storing files in a folder by date is perfectly satifactory. Others prefer to use Collections and Smart Collections. Te second group tend to use workflow based around Peter Krogh's bucket system. The latter approach is dependent on metadata for it to work effeciently whereas the former doesn't. Once metadata is added to a file then there is precious little advantage to the bucket system inside Lr. Sure we may have a lot more folders, but they can be ignored if user uses collection/smart collections in the same way as folk using bucket system would use them.

                                           

                                          I like to use a combination of both.  The physical date arrangement is an easy way to look up photos, and I just dont like having 10s of thousands of physical files in the same directory.  I also have a substantial number of scanned TIFs with no metadata which I want in some kind of order.  The other advantage to a physical arrangement is that "rejected" means what it implies, and allows you to physically delete the file.  And the same goes for using the delete key --you cannot physically delete a file from a collection.  If you have 100 photos in a collection you want to delete, you have to mess around a bit to do it.  If I ever have any spare time, I am usually scanning for and deleting files that I did not have time to delete at the time.

                                           

                                          I use metadata mostly for current projects-in-progress.  For example if an event lasts several days, I will create one or more smart collections covering that date range.  I will sometimes use camera, lens, and other such things to further divide up the work. I also keep  dumb collections for such things as published images, sold photos, etc.

                                           

                                          I use color and star ratings a LOT because they are one-touch assignments during editing.  I use keywords the least because they are too dificult to assign when editing, and to manage in general.

                                          • 18. Re: Sorting/moving physical images question
                                            Cornelia-I Community Member

                                            George in Seattle wrote:

                                             

                                            ...  The other advantage to a physical arrangement is that "rejected" means what it implies, and allows you to physically delete the file.  And the same goes for using the delete key --you cannot physically delete a file from a collection.  If you have 100 photos in a collection you want to delete, you have to mess around a bit to do it.  If I ever have any spare time, I am usually scanning for and deleting files that I did not have time to delete at the time.

                                            Hi George,

                                            So you might be happy that flags have now become global with LR4.

                                            Inside a collection just the Delete-Key has a different function, but the menu-command Photo-Delete Rejected Photos always works, even if you are still inside a collection. Keyboard shortcut is ctrl+backspace.

                                             

                                            George in Seattle wrote:

                                            I use color and star ratings a LOT because they are one-touch assignments during editing.  I use keywords the least because they are too dificult to assign when editing, and to manage in general.

                                            Yes, that is my gripe with keywords also: while doing develop work I get the idea for keywording, but then have to go back to Library and assign them. For star and colour ratings the keyboard shortcut just works, also in Develop.

                                             

                                            Regarding organisation I will also keep my buckets shoot-based and use collections on top/across them.

                                             

                                            Cornelia