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Where is ProRes Export Setting?

Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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I own FCP 7 and do not see where i can set up a Prores sequence NOR export out to 10bit uncompressed (animation)....basically my deliverable is Prores....but do not find anywhere Prores settings.

Do I need to import them from some place within my FCP app?

Below are snapshots of my available sequence settings....Screen Shot 2012-05-15 at 12.57.46 PM.png

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Enthusiast , May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

Select Quicktime in the export dialog.   Ignore the preset.  Now go to the Video Codec in the Video Tab and choose Animation, Prores, etc.... it's all there.

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Enthusiast ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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Select Quicktime in the export dialog.   Ignore the preset.  Now go to the Video Codec in the Video Tab and choose Animation, Prores, etc.... it's all there.

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Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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Here are my setting options within Sequence:Screen Shot 2012-05-15 at 12.57.46 PM.pngScreen Shot 2012-05-15 at 12.58.28 PM.png

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Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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NOW....at Export Settings.....i have no option for Prores or uncompressed 10bit nothing....even with QT selected---see frame grabs:

Screen Shot 2012-05-15 at 1.21.14 PM.pngScreen Shot 2012-05-15 at 1.21.27 PM.png

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Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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OOPS---my bad...was TOTALLY unaware that i had to choose video codec down below....thought it woud be simple up top...see attached for my screw up....sorry!Screen Shot 2012-05-15 at 1.26.20 PM.png

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Enthusiast ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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OK - so looks like you figured out the codecs while I was doing a screen capture

For the main sequence, either drag a clip to the new sequence icon and have it create a sequence for you, or simply create a sequence that matches your frame rate, progressive / interlaced and size (e.g. 1920x1080).  After that it doesn't seem to matter much.  It all plays well.  Once you've got the settings right you can save your own preset and use that from there on if you want.

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Enthusiast ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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Also, once you've chosen your export codec (see your screen grab) you can also set an export preset so that you don't have to do this over and over, it will just become one of the Quicktime options without having to select a coded lower down.

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Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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Thanks Exact: Obviosly i am a moron in this area....

Maybe you can tell me what is best method since i have hundreds of options...in past in FCP...i would have just set up a proper sequence as i recall....but in premier so many options:

First:

i exported my original project to TIFF from a mixed codec timeline and 29.97 and few 24p images

Second....

i now have a timeline setup as 29.97 and i think under DSLR 1920x1080p....

Questions:

1. Can i eport direct out of that sequence setup as 29.97 and 1920x1080p to say prores 1920x1080 50?

OR should i make an entire new sequence at say 1920x1080p @ 25 and then export out to prores 4444 and 50?

Basically i don't seem to have too many options for setting up the sequence from the beginning and looks like all the encoding to other codecs and PAL take place later....so just looking for what should be best practice to always go out to PAL from my NTSC  or to other codecs---if i should make a new sequence or just export from current?

thanks for your wonderful help.

JF

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Enthusiast ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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< scratching head here >

Why don't you just set up your sequence as a DSLR 1920x1080 25p if that's what you are looking for and import your TIFF images as required?

I don't think 1920x1080/50p is an official specification is it?    Maybe you mean 1920x1080 / 50i ?

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Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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the specs i was sent were:  1920x1080 50i....i was merely using DSLR setting just as a quick grab...i can use anything of course.

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Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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I'm assuming there may be no advantage or downside to taking my current sequence where i imported Tiffs and dropped on my 1920x1080p @ 29.97 timeline....and then exporting from there to a QT setting and use some codec to get 1920x1080 50i? but of course brings up my oringal head scratcher---should i just set up another timeline sequence at 1920x1080 25 and drop my Tiff sequence there and THEN output to a prores 50i ?

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Contributor ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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I think you should take your tiff sequence out of the 29.97 timeline.  Then bring it into your 50i timeline.  Overall, you may want to watch these movies, which may help you

http://www.retooled.net/?p=116

http://www.retooled.net/?p=123

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Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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ReToolednet: THAT I BRILLIANT!!!  you answred some 3-4 other questions about all this sequence settings and codec settinngs that were tumbling around in my head....I'm coming from FCP and all of this was overwhelming...but those VIDS are AWSOME!!! I'm sold....your site is now saved as Fav. for me...

thanks,

JOhnny

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Contributor ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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Glad I could help.  It was complicated for me coming from FCP7 as well, so when I had it figured it out, I thought I would pass along the knowledge.

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Enthusiast ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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johnnyfriday wrote:

I'm assuming there may be no advantage or downside to taking my current sequence where i imported Tiffs and dropped on my 1920x1080p @ 29.97 timeline....

There is a MAJOR dissadvantage to doing this, and that is that Premiere will not retime the frames, it will have to interpolate the frames and you will almost certainly lose quality (possibly significantly).

If your destination is intended to be 25p or 50i then I would create the sequence as 25p / 50i BEFORE you import the TIFF files so that on export each and every frame is taken from the source files instead of being interpolated when it gets retimed.

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Contributor ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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What was the source of the tiff sequences, was it footage?  A timelapse?  Graphics?

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Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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reToolednet wrote:

What was the source of the tiff sequences, was it footage?  A timelapse?  Graphics?

My source footage is mixed:

R3d

AVCHD

.mov

95% shot @ 29.97...; some 4k 16:9; 1080p and 720p with a few at 1080p 24p...all dropped on to a PrPro sequence timeline 1920x1080p @ 29.97 and i-frame. See below:Screen Shot 2012-05-13 at 3.26.59 PM.png

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Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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i might add that i also have checked Maxium Bit Depth & Maxuim Quality under Video Previews...

...i was hoping you would talk about this....i checked this assuming when doing my color work it would give me more bit depth...??? but i do not know...But now after your video...i had always been working in I-Frame but with Max checked....but seems according to your video...that i may not have been seeing the best image becuase i chose I-frame....I suspect i should use say 10bit uncompressed or animation....but when viewing RAW....what WOULD you recommend?

thanks. all

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Contributor ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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Others correct me if I'm wrong, but the max bit depth is appropriate when doing color correction, it converts your sequence footage to be treated in floating point 32 bit space.  Max render quality mainly comes into play when doing a lot of different scaling.  So if you have 4K, 1080, and 720, that may be appropriate for you.  However, it may only be necessary for your exports, not your renders. 

You will NOT be seeing the best image from your renders with iframe as your render setting.

However, for your exports, that only matters if you check the Use Previews checkbox when exporting.  Otherwise, everything will be recompressed anyway.

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Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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reToolednet wrote:

Others correct me if I'm wrong, but the max bit depth is appropriate when doing color correction, it converts your sequence footage to be treated in floating point 32 bit space.  Max render quality mainly comes into play when doing a lot of different scaling.  So if you have 4K, 1080, and 720, that may be appropriate for you.  However, it may only be necessary for your exports, not your renders. 

You will NOT be seeing the best image from your renders with iframe as your render setting.

However, for your exports, that only matters if you check the Use Previews checkbox when exporting.  Otherwise, everything will be recompressed anyway.

Excellent news to know...especially with using previews when using a solid codec to view them on...i guess you should ALWAYS make sure you have selected for sequence codec your export codec when plannig to use previews....that is another little one to ask..so if i have say 10bit uncompressed and go out prores 422...and use previews...that still ok (even if not matched)---but still a good solid codec? or should it always match. thanks again....and give me an inch...and i'll go for the mile.

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Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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Yes...the prores gamma shifting still occurs...i think it's just an apple thing...that one has been a killer and just won't go away....so therefore i'm off of doing a direct prores transcode for that reason...but looking for a lossless codec, then out to prores.

Yes...on CS 6

I'm not very familiar with AE...but that will have to change based on what i keep seeing and hearing....

I really like the native workflow though....but then i just need to choose a proper sequence setting such as uncompressed 10bit or something....since most of my docs use a few different cameras/codecs.

Thanks agian reToolednet....a wealth of knowlege sir.

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Contributor ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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10 bit uncompressed would be totally suitable

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Contributor ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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Not sure what you mean about the gamma shift though.  I tested some Red One footage, I don't have a ton at home, just a random clip.  Brought into a prores sequence in PP CS6, exported with match sequence settings.  Brought back in, looks exactly the same.

As for PC options, I'm not really sure.  I do think Premiere needs a good codec option, especially on the PC.  Perhaps the AVI setting of V210, or whatever they call the Uncompress 10 bit AVI could be a good choice.  Any PC users want to comment?

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Guest
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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reToolednet:  yes, for sure 100% there is a shift in colors when you transcode out from R3d to prores...in fact i just finished up a 3d Imax and was in on the post and this was pointed out by me when they had some quick looks out of RedcineX for dailies....i had pointed this out to them that we had a similar problem in our last show for nat geo...it is an extremely suttle shift to muddy looking colors when transcoded direct to prores....a look most folks won't be able to see...but you as a corist likely would...but yes 100%

...this has been a big plague for many of us transcoding direct to Prores from R3d....and best workaround has been to go to DPX or other 3rd party before going to Prores....

Believe me i WISH this was not the case, but i've spent since mid 2007 on this issue and in the end it's just an apple/prores thing....I can get GREAT results if i wrap the R3d in a QT wrapper and work it in COLOR (within Apples hardware/software loop) and get GREAT results...but when i go outside of apple that's when the shifting occurs...again very very suttle...but when you put 20mins into an underwater clip and get a 5% diff. look, you notice it...

glad to share more with you on this offline if you do want to know more...but it's a process that has stumped myself and one other underwater film maker for a long time.....in fact so much so that he's gone BACK to color and QT wrappers.

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Contributor ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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johnny, I think you need to elaborate on your process that causes the gamma shift 100% of the time. 

I'm not a colorist, but am very sensitive to gamma shifts.  The kind that plagued FCP and compressor for, pretty much always, including FCPX.  That said, just doing a native RED clip in PP, then exporting to prores.  I can bring the same prores clip back into the timeline, over the RED clip, enable and disable it and see 0 difference.

Perhaps a hint on scopes, but none visible to my eye.  Of course, it could depend on the red camera the clip is from.  So more steps are needed on camera and what u are doing when seeing the shift.

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