22 Replies Latest reply: May 23, 2012 11:23 AM by Rallymax-forum RSS

    CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports

    3l3ctricdr3ams Community Member

      Hello all,

       

      I am new to the pro HD editing world, so please be patient

       

      I have been editing HD video content on Premiere Pro CS5.5 from different sources (XDCAM, AVCHD, etc) on a newly purchased iMac with the following specs:

       

      2.8GHz quad-core Intel Core i7

      8 GB memory

      1TB storage

      AMD Radeon HD 6770M graphics processor with 512MB of GDDR5 memory

       

      My exporting process is to first make an uncompressed Quicktime master (YUV 8 bit 4:2:2), then encode h.264 exports from there. Final delivery is mostly for web streaming.  I am currently only using ONE DISK, the main disk, for all media storage, OS, etc.

       

      OK, so my problem is a consistent one with exporting HD timelines and I need help isolating the possible sources of the problem.

       

      When I export (after making sure all sequence settings were correct and all export settings match) to h.264, it plays overall smooth on my Mac. The worst problems I'll notice is an EVER so slight motion delay here and there, but overall it looks good. When I upload it to Vimeo, or test it on other computers (especially iPads for some reason), the motion looks awful. The transitions and shots with heavy movement are marred by weird horizontal lines at the top third and middle of the screen. Overall, the video looks jittery and just not right.

       

      I can not for the life of me figure out what I'm doing wrong. I'm starting to wonder if there might be a problem with the software, or my hardware. I only use one disk for all media storage, editing and export, but would that cause such export problems? And why does it play better on my Mac than it does anywhere else? It's hard for me to tell what the flaws of my export are until I test it on another device.

       

      Can someone please help me trouble shoot what the various culprits may be?

       

      Many, many thanks all!

       

      Nick

        • 1. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
          Rallymax-forum Community Member

          what is source frame rate? Is it interlaced?

          what is timeline frame rate? Is it interlaced?

          what is export frame rate? Is it interlaced?

          I ask because going from 24p to a 29.97 timeline will do 3:2 pullup. exporting back to 24p will do 3:2 pulldown.

           

          but.... imagine you have frames ABCD. @29.97 that's ABCDD (ie D is frame doubled).

          if you now downgrade to 24fps it throws away frames... but I know from use it's the wrong one so you get something like ABDD (ie C is dropped not D)

          that can cause the jitter you see.

           

          secondly, if you're using the H.264 exporter you need to change the Multiplexer to the iPad etc compatibility. This dumbs down the encode to make the H.264 a subset of the standard that QuickTime knows how to properly decode. Without it you get jittery playback.

           

          hope that helps,

          • 2. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
            3l3ctricdr3ams Community Member

            Thanks for your response.  The source frame rate and timeline frame rate are both set to 23.976, which I match with the export settings.  And all exports have been used with the "iPad" multiplexer settings.  So I still don't know why I'm getting jittery streaming on certain devices.

             

            Source Specs:

             

            Type: XDCAM-EX Movie

            Image Size: 1920 x 1080

            Frame Rate: 23.976

            Average Data Rate: 4.4 MB / second

            Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.0

             

            VideoFormat:

                    VideoRecPort:

                        port=DIRECT

             

                    VideoFrame:

                        captureFps=23.98p

                        formatFps=23.98p

                        recFps=23.98

                        videoCodec=MPEG2HD35_1920_1080_MP@HL

             

                    VideoLayout:

                        aspectRatio=16:9

                        numOfVerticalLine=1080

                        pixel=1920

             

            Timeline:

             

            XDCAM EX (1080p) preset --

             

            Editing mode: Sony XDCAM EX 1080p (HQ)

            Timebase: 23.976fps

             

            Video Settings

            Frame size: 1920h 1080v (1.0000)

            Frame rate: 23.976 frames/second

            Pixel Aspect Ratio: Square Pixels (1.0)

            Fields: No Fields (Progressive Scan)

             

            Export:

             

            1.) First to uncompressed Quicktime YUV 8 bit 4:2:2, matching all specs, to create MASTER

            2.) Second to h.264, matching all settings (although sometimes I'll export with the 1280 x 720 aspect ratio for smaller file size)

            • 3. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
              J. Simon Community Member

              When I upload it to Vimeo, the motion looks awful.

               

              Post a link so we can see what you're talking about.

              • 4. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                3l3ctricdr3ams Community Member

                Hi Jim, thanks for your help.

                 

                Here is a link which some have complained looks "choppy" when streamed (it looks fine on my iMac): https://vimeo.com/41784676

                 

                What do you think?

                • 5. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                  J. Simon Community Member

                  Something's changed with Vimeo recently.  On a lot of their videos, I get no play controls, including yours.

                   

                  I haven't figured out why yet.

                  • 6. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                    3l3ctricdr3ams Community Member

                    Here's another one, not sure if it would be any different for you: https://vimeo.com/42148444

                     

                    If not, do you have any guesses as to what could be causing this "choppy" look.  I'm wondering if it's either a hardware problem (I don't have the best disk setup, mostly using one disk for all editing) or just an inherent problem with the h.264 codec OR a software problem with Encoder.  There's so many reasons why this could be happening that I'm trying to isolate one.

                     

                    Thanks again.

                    • 7. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                      Ann Bens ACP/MVPs

                      Might be the internet connection.

                      Plays fine, no choppiness what so ever.

                       

                      So does the interview.

                      • 8. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                        J. Simon Community Member

                        Unfortunately, no.  All I get is a static image.  Even the Download option doesn't work for me.

                         

                        Without seeing it for myself, it's difficult to speculate as to a cause.

                         

                        You may have to hang in there till someone else comes along and is able to view the links.

                        • 9. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                          3l3ctricdr3ams Community Member

                          Hi Ann, thanks for your help.  If you don't mind, here is one more link we have had some complaints about: https://vimeo.com/40555146

                           

                          What I'm confused about is that the video plays differently on different devices (might be the browser, not the device tho).  It plays smooth on my iMac, but not my older-version macbook and iPad, for example.  Is this enough to isolate it as a codec issue?

                          • 10. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                            Ann Bens ACP/MVPs

                            Nope no issues.

                            I am on Window, WMP.

                            Maybe because i am on the otherside of the globe.

                            • 11. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                              3l3ctricdr3ams Community Member

                              I should also mention that the h.264 exports play differently on different computers' media players.  For example, all exports play fine on my iMac's QuickTime, but on my laptop's "windows media player," for example, it looks a bit choppy with horizontal motion lines (not interlacing lines, but just a motion line at the middle of the screen during transitions or fast movements).  I would also be very interested in your thoughts on this as well.


                              Thank you!

                              • 12. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                                J. Simon Community Member

                                OK, I found the issue with Vimeo.  Seems they've recoded their site in such a way that it now requires me to disable some of my browser's security features.  (Not crazy about that.)

                                 

                                But the links you posted play just fine for me running an i7 2500 with a FiOS connection.  So...it is looking like the issue is simply with the users' computer/connections not being good enough.

                                • 13. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                                  3l3ctricdr3ams Community Member

                                  Thanks, Jim -- but that wouldn't also explain why it plays choopy on some media players on different computers/devices?  That made me think it wasn't just a streaming problem.

                                  • 14. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                                    J. Simon Community Member

                                    Because some media players just aren't very good with certain codecs.  VLC and KM Player are my "go to" players.  Both work flawlessly with most any format out there.

                                     

                                    But for some reason they just don't play nice with certain TS files I have, so I use UMPlayer for those, which plays them perfectly.

                                    • 15. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                                      Rallymax-forum Community Member

                                      Jim Simon wrote:

                                       

                                      Something's changed with Vimeo recently.  On a lot of their videos, I get no play controls, including yours.

                                       

                                      I haven't figured out why yet.

                                      yup, I only get a static image too.... no ability to run the video.

                                       

                                      As to the root cause of jitter....

                                      The iPod and QuickTime don't fully support the decoding of the H.264 spec. As such encoders have to dumb down the encoder by disabling features. The Mux'ing to iPod parameter on the CS5 "H.264" (now called "H.264 (legacy) in CS6) did the necessary changes to make it work.

                                       

                                      The "iPad", on the other hand, has added some of the missing parts of the decoding of the H.264 standard so the "iPad" multiplexing option is no where near as restrictive on the encoding rules vs the "iPod" choice.

                                       

                                      The technology that's missing will cause very jittery output if encoded with the technology but played back in QuickTime.

                                       

                                      IF, and this is the speculation, Vimeo streams to users what you encoded (vs transcoding it again) then you're at the mercy of the H.264 decoder being used in your web browser. Commonly that's the Windows one unless you install QuickTime - in which case it changes to the QuickTime decoder. The latter is still broken and would explain why some people have a problem and others do not.

                                       

                                      So, to test that theory I suggest you encode using the old iPod [compatible] Multiplexing option and see if it fixes it.

                                       

                                      'regards,

                                      Rallymax.

                                       

                                      Message was edited by: Rallymax-forum I cleaned up the meaning of some sentences.

                                      • 16. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                                        3l3ctricdr3ams Community Member

                                        Thank you for this very useful info -- I will test that and report back.

                                        • 17. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                                          J. Simon Community Member

                                          I only get a static image too.... no ability to run the video.

                                           

                                          Enable cookies.  (Didn't used to have to, but now it seems we do.)

                                          • 18. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                                            Rallymax-forum Community Member

                                            wierd... I just went back to that url to test that cookies were on/off and this time (with no change) the video controls came up.

                                            • 19. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                                              Rallymax-forum Community Member

                                              3l3ctricdr3ams wrote:

                                               

                                              Hi Ann, thanks for your help.  If you don't mind, here is one more link we have had some complaints about: https://vimeo.com/40555146

                                               

                                              What I'm confused about is that the video plays differently on different devices (might be the browser, not the device tho).  It plays smooth on my iMac, but not my older-version macbook and iPad, for example.  Is this enough to isolate it as a codec issue?

                                              Plays back fine for me but looks blurry - not out of focus blurry, just blurry like it's had a soft filter put over it.

                                              • 20. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                                                3l3ctricdr3ams Community Member

                                                I noticed that too.  I didn't put any filters on, but can't figure out why else that would be the case.  Any ideas?

                                                • 21. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                                                  3l3ctricdr3ams Community Member

                                                  I've been using the MP4 "Ipod" multiplexing option, but are you recommending I use "standard" instead?

                                                  • 22. Re: CS5.5 jittery h.264 exports
                                                    Rallymax-forum Community Member

                                                    I think you're better off with the iPod mux'er.

                                                    Having said that - I did some research for you yesterday and I'm now starting to guess that the mux switch only changes how it's muxed - not the crippling of the B frames that needs to happen in the encoder.

                                                    So.... choosing standard or iPad or iPod or PSP probably won't help fix this jitter as I speculated.

                                                    Unfortunately I don't have good solution for you.

                                                    sorry.