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    Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US

    Frenchy74 Community Member

      The Aussie dollar is currently stronger than the USD and heas been for 12 months, why do we have to pay a 25% premium over US customers for an online service that shouldn't be affected by shipping or import taxes?

        • 1. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
          Claudio González MVP

          The matter has been discussed at length many times. Here is a recent thread:

           

          http://forums.adobe.com/thread/933987?tstart=180

          • 2. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
            Frenchy74 Community Member

            Hi Claudio

             

            Please excuse my ignorance in this matter but how does it cost more to collect money from International credit cards? There are many software companies that have software available as downloads but dont rig the price differently for different countries. And why do they have to prepare different downloads? Most software comes with language options during the install these days, the only reason I can see for having different downloads is for different pricing.

            • 3. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
              Claudio González MVP

              Farken, you seem to have missed the tongue-in-cheek tone of most messages in that thread. The naked truth is that NOBODY has ever given a mildy reasonable explanation for these surcharges. More misterious nowadays when there are no physical transferences involved, just downloads; and when if I charge to my credit card the equivalent in pesos (our local currency) of any purchase I make in the Internet, the seller receives the full price he charges in his own local currency, whatever that may be. Obviously, for the banks it doesn't make any difference if they pay rubles to a store next door or yens to a company 20,000 miles away; if there is any extra cost, they will charge it in the card holder's account.

              • 4. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                Phillip Jones Community Member

                Does Australia have VAT? (Value Added Tax). Many European Countries do and this might account for some of the difference. Just speculating though.

                • 5. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                  John Waller MVP

                  Phillip Jones wrote:

                   

                  Does Australia have VAT? (Value Added Tax). Many European Countries do and this might account for some of the difference. Just speculating though.

                  Australia has GST (Goods and Services Tax) which is currently 10%.

                   

                  It may account for some of the difference but only some.

                   

                  The reason for the rest of the difference is known only to Adobe but whenever they're asked to justify it they respond with vague, irrelevant reasoning and never directly answer the question in any convincing way which makes sense.

                   

                  It's a longstanding sore point with Adobe's Australian customers (as it is with European customers too).

                   

                  Everyone cries foul, we discuss the pricing differences across the globe ad nauseaum in the forums (even the Australian Government is involved in software pricing discussions this time around) and elsewhere but nothing changes from upgrade cycle to upgrade cycle.

                   

                  Adobe continues to grossly over-charge non-US customers and we keep having to pay the huge markups if we want to use the software.

                  • 6. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                    Claudio González MVP

                    Phillip, none of the states in the USA have to pay any form of sales tax? Regardless, why try to hide 50% and more surcharges behind much lower VAT charges? Next thing, you'll be talking about the extra costs of preparing sofware packages for downloading them outside the USA...

                    • 7. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                      PECourtejoie ACP

                      I think that the local offices also have to pay for buildings, employees, web hosting, advertizements, sponsorships, and sometimes translation costs (for their website) -and I know that English is spoken down there.

                      • 8. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                        John Waller MVP

                        PECourtejoie wrote:

                         

                        I think that the local offices also have to pay for buildings, employees, web hosting, advertizements, sponsorships, and sometimes translation costs (for their website) -and I know that English is spoken down there.

                        As I said:

                         

                        "...they respond with vague, irrelevant reasoning and never directly answer the question in any convincing way which makes sense."

                         

                         

                         

                        We're talking about digital downloads here: byte for byte (and delivery method) identical to the product enjoyed by US customers.

                         

                        An Australian computer mag is currently collating examples of blatant overcharging of Australian customers by tech vendors (not just Adobe but Adobe certainly is listed). It's probably a mere sideshow in the scheme of things but if it causes the Adobe boardroom to even raise an eyebrow it may be worthwhile. People power has occasionally been known to influence Adobe pricing policy.

                         

                        The Australia tax: We list overcharging of Australians by tech vendors

                        http://apcmag.com/overcharge.htm

                        • 9. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                          Claudio González MVP

                          Pierre, your argument has also been presented here many times. Do you seriously think that the cost of buildings, employees, ..., is 50% higher in other countries than in the USA? Why does Adobe host their customer service in India then?

                           

                          As John has just said, we are talking about digital downloads, and credit cards and PayPal insure that Adobe does not have to move a finger to get all their USDs for each download. I could understand large differences in prices when one was paying for a boxed CD or DVD plus a fairly heavy and usually well printed manual, but now...

                          • 10. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                            PECourtejoie ACP

                            John, I'm not "they"

                            I am also charged more than others.

                             

                            I tried to make a reasonable assumption about one of the elements that can explain the price difference. (If the Adobe local offices are separate legal entities)

                             

                            Another thing to keep in mind is that they cannot stick to the exact conversion rate: if they are very close to it, they would sell at loss when the rate changes... (I was able to get a MBP for the price of a MacBook when the Sterling Pound made a dive compared to the Euro in 2008.) I guess that they set a confortable buffer, and try to stick to it (otherwise, prices would change often, creating confusion and anger to their customers and resellers.)

                             

                            Maybe that if we add all the parts, a chunk of the price difference can be explained. Then, the rest is "explained" by the fact that Adobe is not a non-profit company.

                             

                            I sure would want to pay less...

                            • 11. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                              John Waller MVP

                              PECourtejoie wrote:

                               

                              John, I'm not "they"

                              I am also charged more than others.

                               

                              I tried to make a reasonable assumption about one of the elements that can explain the price difference. (If the Adobe local offices are separate legal entities)

                              I know Pierre.

                               

                              My comment was more tongue-in-cheek than anything else.

                               

                              The points you raise are trotted out by Adobe time and again and never satisfy anyone as a complete explanation (including me).

                               

                              No offense intended.

                               

                              There's genuine price difference (local taxes, exchange rates etc) at one end of the spectrum and blatant over charging at the other.

                               

                              Adobe's policies, to everyone but Adobe, are clearly the latter. They charge what they do because they can and they know they'll get it. These conversations rarely occurred when Macromedia was in competition with Adobe.

                              • 12. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                Claudio González MVP

                                PECourtejoie wrote:

                                 

                                John, I'm not "they"

                                I am also charged more than others.

                                 

                                I tried to make a reasonable assumption about one of the elements that can explain the price difference. (If the Adobe local offices are separate legal entities)

                                 

                                Another thing to keep in mind is that they cannot stick to the exact conversion rate: if they are very close to it, they would sell at loss when the rate changes... (I was able to get a MBP for the price of a MacBook when the Sterling Pound made a dive compared to the Euro in 2008.) I guess that they set a confortable buffer, and try to stick to it (otherwise, prices would change often, creating confusion and anger to their customers and resellers.)

                                 

                                Maybe that if we add all the parts, a chunk of the price difference can be explained. Then, the rest is "explained" by the fact that Adobe is not a non-profit company.

                                 

                                I sure would want to pay less...

                                 

                                Peter, we can all make assumptions that can explain part of the price difference, and I'm sure we have read all of these guesses in these forums over the years. I think that if you add them all up, you will never come to the actual surcharges.

                                 

                                You say Maybe that if we add all the parts, a chunk of the price difference can be explained. Then, the rest is "explained" by the fact that Adobe is not a non-profit company. I see it the other way around: The price difference is explained by the fact that Adobe is not a non-profit company. The charge what they do because they can an they know they'll get it, as John says.

                                 

                                Pity that Adobe does not seem to realize how much this policy encourages piracy in countries where the average salaries are way, way below the price of any of their products. In my opinion, sales would probably increase in those contries if they charged reasonable prices. Although it may be too late in places where piracy has become in practice a not-frowned-upon practice.

                                • 13. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                  John Waller MVP

                                  Claudio González wrote:
                                  Pity that Adobe does not seem to realize how much this policy encourages piracy in countries where the average salaries are way, way below the price of any of their products. In my opinion, sales would probably increase in those contries if they charged reasonable prices. Although it may be too late in places where piracy has become in practice a not-frowned-upon practice.

                                   

                                  Seems to me that Adobe's latest response to piracy is the Cloud subscription model.

                                   

                                  If it has the desired effect on piracy (not to mention revenue due to people subscribing 365/24/7) that Adobe is looking for, why would Adobe bother with crackable perpetual licenses - and endless arguments over regional price differences - in future?

                                  • 14. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                    Claudio González MVP

                                    John, I honestly do not know (I am no longer upgrading my Adobe products as I am no longer using them for paid jobs), so this question is completely naive: will Adobe charge the same subscription prices all over the world?

                                    • 15. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                      PECourtejoie ACP

                                      Claudio, this very thread is about the difference in price for the subscription to the Creative Cloud...

                                      • 16. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                        Claudio González MVP

                                        Pierre, I was fooled by this sentence in John's last message, which I took to mean that there will not be regional price differencse in the future:

                                         

                                        If it has the desired effect on piracy (not to mention revenue due to people subscribing 365/24/7) that Adobe is looking for, why would Adobe bother with crackable perpetual licenses - and endless arguments over regional price differences - in future?

                                        • 17. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                          PECourtejoie ACP

                                          It might be that the difference in price is less pronounced with the Cloud offerings?

                                          • 18. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                            Claudio González MVP

                                            But what excuse would be left to "explain" regional price differences then?

                                            • 19. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                              Claudio González MVP

                                              I hadn't thought of this one: perhaps they are charging for miles travelled by the information from the source to one's computer. And I guess that each owner of the neccessary satellites will have different connection fees for different countries...

                                              • 20. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                getho Community Member

                                                Its the cost of fitting out the carrier pigeons with usb drives, and the obvious attrition rates you'd get over large distances

                                                • 21. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                  teztas

                                                  It gets even worse if you want to upgrade an entire suite. I just tried to upgade my Design Premium at the default Adobe store (US as it happens) at the quoted price of US$749. The transaction couldn't be completed and it was suggested that I try again or call a phone number. Eventually, I made it to the Australian store, but the upgrade price was $1137. The current conversion would be A$773.37. Add 10% GST to the Australian price and it becomes $1250.70. That's a 67% increase on the US price!

                                                  • 22. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                    Claudio González MVP

                                                    Textas, you mean that the transaction failed, not because only American  credit cards billed at an USA valid address were accepted, but because of some undeterminate network failure, and that everything will eventually function properly if you continue trying again? Now, THAT would be NEWS, although I must say that I very much doubt it.

                                                     

                                                    I know of many people who would be willing to try as many times af necessary if they knew that paying American prices with a non-American credit card is only a matter of patience.

                                                    • 23. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                      teztas Community Member

                                                      Actually Claudio, you have completely missed the point of my post and its relevenance to the question asked by the OP. But for your information, I did not try to 'beat the system' as you infer. I replied to an email promotion regarding the the CS6 upgrade. That took me to the Adobe store and I selected the 'Buy upgrade...' option. To complete the transaction, I was prompted to log in with my Adobe ID which I did. But then, after clicking on the button to complete the purchase, a pop-up told me that there was a problem with the transaction and to try again, but if I still had no success, to call an 800-something phone number. After trying one or two times more, I gave up and looked for a means of contact other than the phone number. That's when I ended up linked to the Australian store and discovered not only that I had been attempting to place the order through the US store, but the price was hugely inflated. Does that make it clear?

                                                       

                                                      By the way, when I ugpgraded to CS5 two and half years ago it cost $1050 including GST and the Australian dollar was valued at around 80 US cents. It is currently close to parity and until recently had been close to US1.20 for some time. So, I don't see how Adobe can have any excuse for the exhorbitant price difference.

                                                      • 24. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                        Claudio González MVP

                                                        It seems that we are both misunderstanding each other. I did understand perfectly the first time you explained it what you had done and why. What struck me as strange was that, when any of the people who have complained in this forum (in several threads through the years) about the surcharges, have attempted to purchase directly from the Adobe USA Store, their operations have been refused at the payment stage, and with a very clear explanation: they only sell to people residing in the USA and whose method of payment involves billing to an USA address.

                                                         

                                                        Your report, however, seemed to indicate at least for me that your operation failed due to a different reason. And that seemed to open interesting possibilities, including a new policy from Adobe, of charging the same prices all over the world. Something that unfortunately we all know is very nearly impossible to happen.

                                                         

                                                        If you take a look at the posts in this thread -or in the several previous ones- you'll notice that nobody has ever defended the outrageous surcharges outside the USA, and nobody has ever offered any mildly reasonable explanation for their existence. Maintaining local offices, for example, is no excuse if these offices don't even publicise Adobe products in the country, as happens here. If our Adobe office was erased from the map right now, I doubt that there would be many local users of Adobe products that would even notice.

                                                        • 25. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                          zumek

                                                          No offical comment from Adobe on this one????

                                                           

                                                          If exchange rate fluctuations is the real issue here; why don't Adobe allow us to pay in USD and it'll come out to be the same for everyone!

                                                           

                                                          Was looking forward to signing up to the Cloud, but not willing to pay $20 more a month just for being in AU! AUD > USD!!!

                                                          • 26. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                            Claudio González MVP

                                                            No, there has never been an official Adobe comment on this that I am aware of, and I very much doubt we will ever get one. And, to the best of my knowledge, it's not a matter of fluctiating exchange rates. As far as I know, when I use my international credit card to pay for a purchase in the USA from a firm quoting prices in USD, the required total amount in USD is deposited in that firm's account at the very moment that the purchase is completed. In due time, my bank will charge me in CLP at the appropriate rate of exchange, plus interests and other charges if I chose to pay in installemens, but none of this affects in any way the deposit already made in the seller's account for the full quoted price. More cleraly, if I could buy directly from Adobe at USA prices, Adobe would receive exactly the same amount it receives when selling to a USA resident.

                                                            • 27. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                              crewmark Community Member

                                                              30% per month more in Australia for an online service with a country that Australia has a free trade agreement is criminal.

                                                              What could possibly be the reason other than Adobe AU demanding the extra.

                                                              Adobe AU did not have an online store for quite sometime so I bought through the US online store WITH an Aussie credit card with no issues.

                                                              • 28. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                                the_wine_snob Community Member

                                                                Claudio,

                                                                 

                                                                I also cannot recall any official comment from Adobe, on the intricacies of the pricing structure, though the discussions come up (usually in the various product forums) quite often. All that I have seen are speculations, from users, however I certainly might have missed those "official comments," as I spend more time trying to solve problems related to the products, than discussing pricing of the products.

                                                                 

                                                                Hunt

                                                                • 29. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                                  Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                                  Given what we have seen in other areas, I wonder if they even know why things are the way they are.

                                                                   

                                                                  -Noel

                                                                  • 30. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                                    the_wine_snob Community Member

                                                                    Noel,

                                                                     

                                                                    I can only speculate that someone, somewhere MUST know. However, I have not read any replies from him/her/them, so that info has not come my way. All I have to go on, is speculation from other users. Some might be correct, but they might also be wrong too.

                                                                     

                                                                    Being in the US, and most often buying my Adobe software, from the Adobe Store, I probably have not followed all potential threads, and then, those would only have been in particular product forums - and I only have time to monitor about 8, so could well miss something.

                                                                     

                                                                    I do not do business on an international level, so miss a great deal. However, I know that when I had to shoot in Canada, or Mexico, it cost me a good deal more, to do so from the US. Does that apply to an international company, with offices in many countries? I do not know.

                                                                     

                                                                    Never had to shoot in the UK, or Europe, but do have one observation that might, or might not have any bearing on this - in the UK, there are a few US wines available, though usually not something that I would drink in the US. Not taking the "London markup" into account, those wines are about +100 - 200% higher at retail, than in the US. OTOH, I see many very good French wines there, that cost about 60 - 70%, of what they do in the US, even WITH the "London markup."

                                                                     

                                                                    With international business, there are tariffs, local expenses, that do not exist elsewhere, and monetary exchange differences. Still, I would speculate (that word again!), that there are some other factors, but I just do not know what those would be.

                                                                     

                                                                    I would love to hear the official stance and explanation from Adobe, as this sort of question does come up quite often - I just do not know who to ask.

                                                                     

                                                                    Hunt

                                                                    • 31. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                                      Claudio González MVP

                                                                      Bill, we are talking about software that is downloaded, not about wines that have to be bottled, labelled, shipped, passed through Customs, pay local taxes and be distributed locally.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                                        the_wine_snob Community Member

                                                                        Claudio,

                                                                         

                                                                        I am fully aware of that. It was but an example of how some things differ, country to country.

                                                                         

                                                                        Does it apply here? I have no idea, but it might, as there are many monetary considerations, when international commerce is involved.

                                                                         

                                                                        What is your "speculation?"

                                                                         

                                                                        Hunt

                                                                        • 33. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                                          Claudio González MVP

                                                                          That the surcharge may have had sounder reasons when one bought disks and printed manuals, that had to be boxed, labelled, ... When one is talking only of downloaded softwares, well ...

                                                                          • 34. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                                            Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                                            We tend to have an external view of a company as well-run, with someone well in charge of every aspect of operation, and a big master plan that all the cogs implement smoothly by meshing perfectly together.

                                                                             

                                                                            That's not a very good description of any big high tech company I ever worked for.

                                                                             

                                                                            In reality a lot of time one hand didn't know what the other was doing; there was internal competition; and because of turnover, culture, inertia, poor control, or whatever things were the way they were because they were already working (after a fashion) and no one wanted to upset them.  Think "Dilbert".  Seriously.  To the point where good work was punished and stupidity rewarded.  SERIOUSLY.

                                                                             

                                                                            How pointy is the hair of the bosses inside Adobe?  We may never know.  Just don't assume there's a valid, justifiable, stated reason for every policy.

                                                                             

                                                                            -Noel

                                                                            • 35. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                                              the_wine_snob Community Member

                                                                              Claudio,

                                                                               

                                                                              Good point, and one, for which I have no answer.

                                                                               

                                                                              In speculative mode, there is the matter of maintaining an office, of some sort, in the country, and perhaps a support system, of some sort.

                                                                               

                                                                              Beyond that, I do not have a thought.

                                                                               

                                                                              Hunt

                                                                              • 36. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                                                the_wine_snob Community Member

                                                                                Noel,

                                                                                 

                                                                                You just "burst my bubble." I had imagined a wise, all-knowing wizard at the very top, magically directing all departments below them.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Hunt

                                                                                • 37. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                                                  Claudio González MVP

                                                                                  Bill, Adobe has one Latin American office based in Mexico, and a Spanish one based in Spain; that's the lot for the whole universe of native Spanish speakers. There are no Adobe ads in the local media. What is one paying for, then, with the 50% surcharge?

                                                                                   

                                                                                  And I hate to say this, but we are just repeating the same things that have been posted dozens of times in this forum.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                                                    John Hawkinson Community Member

                                                                                    You just "burst my bubble." I had imagined a wise, all-knowing wizard at the very top, magically directing all departments below them.

                                                                                    Bill, you need to watch out for wise, all-knowing wizards. There was a certain Miss Dorothy Gale who also believed that there was one of those, and look how it turned out for her? (In the end, admirably!)

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Why does the creative cloud cost more in Australia than US
                                                                                      Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                                                      Ooh, NICE connection there, John (considering you're talking about the land of Oz and the subject of this thread).  Hats off to you! 

                                                                                       

                                                                                      -Noel

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