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AI CS6 took away the Opacity sliders

Engaged ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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I just discovered to my horror that there are no opacity sliders in Illustrator CS6.

Seems like the program is going backwards now. Whatever.

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LEGEND ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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Yeah, I didn't like the removal of the sliders either. I think they were much better than the 10% steps.

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Engaged ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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It's like Illustrator thinks we're all computers or something. Opacity, rounded corners, etc. all require entering in precise numbers. There's no interactivity allowing us to tweak by sight. All these clicks are driving me nuts.

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Valorous Hero ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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I haven't checked CS6 yet, but I rarely use sliders in Illustrator. I use the up and down arrow keys on the keyboard instead. This works with most input fields In Illustrator and in all programs in general at least on Windows, I'm not sure abut Macs but since someone mentioned that it works now on Macs with the Font menu may be they also made it work with all other input fields.

With the arrow keys I get real time feedback from changing the transparency and when holding Shift it changes by 10% increments, while with the sliders I don't see any real time feedback,  I see the change when I stop dragging the slider so, what's the point then? I can type the desired value with similar effort.

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LEGEND ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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I agree the arrows are better.

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Engaged ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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Thanks, did not know about the arrows. Still would prefer sliders. But the arrows are a heck of a lot better than entering numbers.

Will this work with rounded corners too? Nevermind, I'm off to try it.

Thanks, again!

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Valorous Hero ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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Yes it does, in the Round corners dialog (the effect). With Shift it is 6 pt increments.

The up and down arrow keys usually work in any input field where you can type values or names of items like the font menu, it also works in some other manus that show the selected item highlighted. And remember, you can just hold the arrow keys down you don't have to press them multiple times.

The arrow keys also work with the Rounded Rectangle tool as well with other tools that create segments like the Star, Spiral, Flair,Grids, and etc during creating of the objects but that's a different kind of feature which is not related to input fields and highlighted menus.

edit: with all that said, even though I don't use the sliders and don't find them very useful, they didn't make any problems and Adobe should not remove features like that because different people like different things and more options the better.

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Contributor ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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Wade_Zimmerman wrote:

I agree the arrows are better.

Sure...if you have the use of both hands.

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Valorous Hero ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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Frank Heller wrote:

...

Sure...if you have the use of both hands.

You can't press the up/down arrow keys with one hand?

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Contributor ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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You can't press the up/down arrow keys with one hand?

You missed my point entirely. While this may be fine for two handed people, it is an inconvenience for the disabled. There was no reason to remove this functionality.

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LEGEND ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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emil emil wrote:

Frank Heller wrote:

...

Sure...if you have the use of both hands.

You can't press the up/down arrow keys with one hand?

You may be a bit more limber than most... I have a difficult time drawing a shape.. and hitting arrrow keys at the same time with one hand.

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LEGEND ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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All you have to do is press the arrow key down and it will continue at a nice pace to increase or decrease the value.

And I a usualy use my other hand to ht the arrow keys it doesn't reaally have much to do anyway except to hold the coffee cup.

Don't get me wrong if people have a prefernce and it is reasonably doable I say it dshould be returned as well but I think the arrow keys are easier. for me.

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Valorous Hero ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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Scott, aren't we talking about changing the opacity with a slider vs the arrow keys? We are talking about the difference between dragging a slider with the mouse or holding a finger on up or down arrow keys. With the other hand you can press Shift to speed up the change by 10% increments, but what will your other hand be doing anyway in the case of dragging the opacity slider?

Or maybe you and Frank think that the conversation is about using the arrow keys with object and path creation tools like those found under the line and rectangle tools?  I briefly mentioned examples of using the arrow keys with these tools as a different kind of usage (not input field) and this doesn't have other interactive alternative like the slider for the opacity.

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LEGEND ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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emil emil wrote:

Scott, aren't we talking about changing the opacity with a slider vs the arrow keys?

Yeah but there was also a mix of rounded corners in there as well... that's where two hands may be needed.

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LEGEND ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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Round Corners and drawing at the same time? I don't think so not in Illustrator!

But to be fair the slider gives you the opportunity of visually observing the adjustment when it is not necessarily a specific measurement but a visual relationship that is more important at the sametime allowing you to make drastic changes much mroe quickly while amintaining that visual contact.

It is not actually the hands that are the problem as much as trying to visually concentrate in two places at the same time.

And it is a good point.

And I am not putting words in your mouth I am stating these concerns from my own point of view.

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Adobe Employee ,
Jul 12, 2012 Jul 12, 2012

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There is one more way: Hover the pointer over the field and use the scroll-wheel to increment/decrement the value. You don't even have to click.

Personally, I find it quite useful.

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Explorer ,
Dec 18, 2012 Dec 18, 2012

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I would hope that Adobe products would have conistent interactions, in the future. I use both Photoshop and Illustrator. CS6 Photoshop still wisely employs the slider. I frequently use a stylus, as many artists and designers do, and the removal of the slider is unfortunate. If possible please bring this facility back.

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LEGEND ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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Round Corners and drawing at the same time? I don't think so not in Illustrator!

But to be fair the slider gives you the opportunity of visually observing the adjustment when it is not necessarily a specific measurement but a visual relationship that is more important at the sametime allowing you to make drastic changes much mroe quickly while amintaining that visual contact.

It is not actually the hands that are the problem as much as trying to visually concentrate in two places at the same time.

And it is a good point.

And I am not putting words in your mouth I am stating these concerns from my own point of view.

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Valorous Hero ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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[scott w] wrote:

...

Yeah but there was also a mix of rounded corners in there as well... that's where two hands may be needed.

We talked about changing the radius in Rounded Corner effect dialog which has no slider alternative but only an input field that can be used interactively with the arrow keys. While this dialog is on nothing can be done with the other hand - no drawing allowed

I also mentioned using the arrow keys with the Rounded Rectangle but this was kind of off topic example for another usage of the arrow keys and there is no other interactive alternative there too. Nothing has been replaced or changed there and no one is complaining.  This is about when dragging the Rounded Rectangle to create an object, holding the up or down arrow keys changes interactively the corner radius. The other tools that do that are Polygon, Star, Flare, Arc, Spiral, Rectangular and Polar Grid tools. Also all object creation tools can create multiple copies of the object being created while holding the ~ key which is another example of holding a key while dragging the mouse to creating objects - this is how these tools have been designed to works in the first place and there was never any other interactive alternatives

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Contributor ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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Or maybe you and Frank think that the conversation is about using the arrow keys with object and path creation tools

I believe Scott and I are discussing the the same thing:

CS5 Slider.pngCS6 FixedChoice.png

...again, you missed my point. If you are disabled....you may find the mouse more convenient as primary input for most operations. The slider permitted a full numerical entry range. Removing this functionality becomes an inconvenience for those who are "mouse-centric". Yes, the up and down arrows work fine (and did so in CS5) but jumping from the mouse to the keyboard interrupts a smooth workflow when you only have one hand to work with. Get it?

There was no reason to remove this full range functionality and replace it with a "multiple choice" interface that requires further tweaking to get at the "tweener" numbers.

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Adobe Employee ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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Hi,

I was wondering if you've tried using your mouse and scrolling in any of the numeric/editable fields in Illustrator CS6. One of the GUI tweaks in Illustrator CS6 is the ability to modify numeric/editable fields by positioning the mouse pointer on the field and then using the scroll wheel on your mouse to modify the value. If the increment values are too small, you can hold the Alt key and then scroll to increments the property in larger values.

When you have a moment, please try this and see if it helps?

-David

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Contributor ,
May 14, 2012 May 14, 2012

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When you have a moment, please try this and see if it helps?

I had a moment and tried it. Yes, it works. But here's the thing I discovered: the method is still not as fast as the slider. I have to scroll extremely slow in order to land on an exact value. If I scroll quickly, it overshoots values by 2s and 3s. And again using the Alt key (in my case, the Shift key: Mac) goes back to my original point: mouse-centricity.

And to be sure I wasn't kidding myself, I had CS5 and 6 both opened and found that I could consistently get to a specific value faster with the slider. When you are doing hundreds of these operations daily (which I do) that extra second or two begins to add up: making the difference between finishing up a project a 15 minute job or a 20 minute job. Frankly, I don't find this substitution an improvement. Quite the opposite.

You know, I can't help but get the feeling that the mission focus for this version was 64bits and "move the furniture". My problem with this is, although I appreciate the addition of HD resolution, I really preferred it when the couch was facing the TV.

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Engaged ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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W.O.W.

Using the mouse wheel to adjust opacity is bloody brilliant! And I think it's WAY better that using a slider. Being able to do this is a lot closer to how we use our hands and watch what we're doing with immediate feedback when we sketch or mold clay in the real world. THIS is what AI should do more of. Holy cow. Fantastic!

Now THIS is the kind of stuff I like to see in new versions! This stuff is way more valuable to me than fancy new features I only use now and then.

Problem is, I wasn't even aware of it. Just the opposite, I thought a feature had been taken away (which I wasn't aware of until I stumbled upon it.) And then I got angry. All the while you guys had added something better. Why in the world don't you publish this stuff? Every time I searched for information on what is new in CS6 all I get is the same old stuff: pattern maker, gradients on strokes and stuff aimed at new users.

We would very much like to know, specifically, what exactly has changed.  Like Photoshop's JDI list. Why isn't there one for Illustrator? I'd love to see it.

Tweaking the interface doesn't matter at all unless you tell people about it. I never would have thought to try the middle mouse wheel. Which, again, is a fantastic addition. Actually, so far, it's my favorite new feature. Especially for rounded corners. Very often I have boxes that require corner radii of less than an inch, which requires a decimal value to set. Having to enter that number for stuff like that just does not work, and stops your flow. Now, it's a breeze!

Thanks, Ivan David!  Is there somewhere we can see a detailed list of all the other changes??

Update: Wow, this works for stuff like Strokes and Height/Width too! It even works on the fields in the Color Sliders. You don't even have to click the field, just put your mouse over it, even better. This makes up for AI's tiny color sliders (all the sliders) where smaller movements are difficult.  I'm starting to like Adobe Illustrator again.

Did I say Wow yet? So far this is my favorite new feature. I may seem over excited over something that may seem so small but, for me, this makes using AI closer to real world interaction.

One thing I'd like to add is that I use a PC mouse with my Mac. I can't stand Mac mice. But I do remember that the center "ball" was over-sensitive, so Mac users may not get the right interaction using this features. It would prolly be a good idea to add a new modifier key to slow things down.

Please let us know if there's a list somewhere of all the other tweaks, I can't wait to see it.

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Adobe Employee ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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Frank and Emil, I'm sorry that this slows down your workflows. While I cannot speculate on why the slider was removed, I hope that this new way will become more convenient and a better experience as you use it more.

John Stanowski wrote:

W.O.W.

Using the mouse wheel to adjust opacity is bloody brilliant! And I think it's WAY better that using a slider. Being able to do this is a lot closer to how we use our hands and watch what we're doing with immediate feedback when we sketch or mold clay in the real world. THIS is what AI should do more of. Holy cow. Fantastic!

John, yes, this tweak is enabled on all editable/numeric fields that have values that can be increased or decreased. I'm glad that you find the feauture so useful.

Thanks, Ivan David!  Is there somewhere we can see a detailed list of all the other changes??

Please let us know if there's a list somewhere of all the other tweaks, I can't wait to see it.

About a list... interesting that you brought it up - because I am working on a list of all the smaller (but useful) tweaks that have gone into the Illustrator CS6. I promise to have it out and update this thread as soon as possible. Appreciate the feedback.

Cheers,

David

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LEGEND ,
May 15, 2012 May 15, 2012

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I think it is very useful and I guess I accidentally noticed it but then could not figure out what I had done I thought It was working  like scrub adjustment, then I thought I imagined it but now I know what it actually is.

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