14 Replies Latest reply: May 23, 2012 12:46 AM by Omke Oudeman RSS

    Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?

    Reimund T Community Member

      When sorting on Date Created, and two pictures have the same created timestamp, what decides the final order?

       

      In my case, I have pictures from one Canon and one Nikon camera and when I sort on Date Created the result differs on my two machines (both running

      Bridge CS5 on Mac OSX 10.7.4). One one machine, the files are sorted in CR2, NEF order, and on the second NEF, CR2 (given that the have the same created date).

       

      Any idea what causes this inconsistent behaviour?

        • 1. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
          Curt Y Community Member

          With time stamps believe they are down to hundredth of a second, so one shot will be a winner. 

           

          Make sure the sort order is the same, like accending.

          • 2. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
            Reimund T Community Member

            All pictures are in the same order, except the ones taken on the same second. So it does not look like Bridge is using any higher precision than down to the second (and that's what's displayed).

            • 3. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
              Curt Y Community Member

              They have to be better than 1 second as some motor drive cameras take multiple shots per second.  Photographers would be screaming if the order was screwed up.

               

              However, it is likely the cameras are not synced that close in time, so there time stamp when shot will be camera time dependant.

              • 4. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
                Reimund T Community Member

                Well it doesn't really matter what precision the timestamp has. Theoretically it's still possible that you get the same on two pictures.

                 

                My problem is rather that Bridge sorts them differently on the two machines, running both the same software and OS version. Basically I'm fishing for some setting to change to get consistent result when sorting!

                • 5. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
                  Yammer Community Member

                  I've noticed that some software sorts differently depending on the previous sort criteria. So, if two items are identical, they are left in the order in which they occurred in a previous sort. I don't know if this is the case with Bridge, but you could probably prove this one way or the other by sorting with different criteria (ascending and descending) before chosing Date Created.

                  • 6. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
                    Omke Oudeman Community Member

                    Any idea what causes this inconsistent behaviour?

                     

                    If my understanding is correct you have two machines running same OS and same Bridge version.

                     

                    Both show Date Created in good order but one has the alphabet in ascending order showing C before N and the other has descending with showing N before C.

                     

                     

                    Assuming you have a copy of the same folders on both machines and you checked if both use indeed the same ascending order (the little arrow at the right of the filter criteria in the path bar pointing to above).

                     

                    If all this is correct I would start with resetting the preferences (hold down option key while restarting Bridge and choose reset preferences) for the version that shows descending alphabet while having ascending order selected.

                     

                    Also check and repair permissions of your OS on a regular base is healthy for your computer

                    • 7. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
                      Reimund T Community Member

                      Omke, given that I have Sort by Date Created, clicking the arrow will reverse the sorting based on time, not alphabet. I'm not sure how you can change a secondary sorting criteria, I don't think it's even possible.

                       

                      Just to be sure, I've even renamed the files so that the one in the last position would get the first position given sorting on filename. But it does not change anything when I sort on date.

                       

                      In other words, the canon file is treated as created earlier than the nikon, no matter what the filenames are.

                       

                      EDIT: I was wrong (basically I was comparing the wrong files...). The filename seems indeed like it's the secondary criteria.

                      • 8. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
                        Omke Oudeman Community Member

                        I'm not sure how you can change a secondary sorting criteria, I don't think it's even possible.

                         

                        Don't know of a way either, only one sort criteria is available.

                         

                        In other words, the canon file is treated as created earlier than the nikon, no matter what the filenames are.

                         

                         

                        As a Canon user I can live perfectly with the fact a Mac puts the files in front of Nikon...

                         

                         

                        But seriously Reimund,

                         

                        Still not clear to me what kind of workflow you are describing. Do you have the same files on both computers and you did so by copy the whole folder from one to another or are you reading from one external disk.

                         

                        Or do you import randomly on both machines and are the imported files on one machine have different behavior in sorting then on the other?

                         

                        Renaming does only effect the modification date or the sort order for filename. The date created should be an in camera generated date and time and written in the Exif traveling in the file itself.

                         

                         

                         

                         

                        I tried to find out myself if the Exif had further info then hour,minute and second.

                         

                        I have an older 1D2 and a 1Ds3. In the file info under 'Raw Data' is a lot of information. For the 1D2 it seems not possible to show the details for 10th and 100th of a second but for the 1Ds3 it seems it shows the correct info.

                         

                        Try it yourself, I found these lines:

                         

                        <rdf:Description rdf:about=""

                                    xmlns:xmp="http://ns.adobe.com/xap/1.0/">

                                 <xmp:ModifyDate>2012-05-20T17:15:47+02:00</xmp:ModifyDate>

                                 <xmp:CreateDate>2012-05-20T15:35:20.68+02:00</xmp:CreateDate>

                                 <xmp:MetadataDate>2012-05-20T17:15:47+02:00</xmp:MetadataDate>

                                 <xmp:CreatorTool>Adobe Photoshop Camera Raw 7.0 (Macintosh)</xmp:CreatorTool>

                         

                         

                        Mind the create date showing 15:35:20.68

                         

                        So maybe this will get you a bit further if your camera is new enough to show the details?

                        • 9. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
                          Yammer Community Member

                          Yammer P wrote:

                           

                          I've noticed that some software sorts differently depending on the previous sort criteria. So, if two items are identical, they are left in the order in which they occurred in a previous sort. I don't know if this is the case with Bridge, but you could probably prove this one way or the other by sorting with different criteria (ascending and descending) before chosing Date Created.

                          Reimund, did you try this at all?

                          • 10. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
                            Reimund T Community Member

                            Yammer, yes I tried and the previous sort criteria had no influence on the new sorting.

                             

                            Omke, here's an explanation to my scenario. We were two photographers at an event, me and my buddy. In the end, we put all our pictures in the same directory, with original names and all. Then we copied the directory to another computer. After that, we sorted all the files on Date Created and renamed the files so they get a sequence number (we did this on both machines). The problem is that the new filenames on the two machines doesn't always match if the pictures are taken same second. Probably because we renamed the files a couple of times before we got it right.

                             

                            Now, in hindsight I realize renaming the files before copying to the other computer would have made our lives much easier. Still, I'd like to be able to get the same sorting/filenames afterwards as well.

                             

                            In our scenario, the easiest solution will be to just copy them over again. But at the time we couldn't do that (due to low battery and late hour, and then our disks were separated).

                             

                            I hope it makes sense .

                            • 11. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
                              Omke Oudeman Community Member

                              Now, in hindsight I realize renaming the files before copying to the other computer would have made our lives much easier. Still, I'd like to be able to get the same sorting/filenames afterwards as well.

                               

                              Thanks for clarification and yes it is a common problem with different camera's on same event.

                               

                              It still puzzles me a bit why both machines rename differently but hat might be more a case for the Bridge technicians.

                               

                              There are other options with use of scripts, but that also takes time. You could ask this in the dedicated Adobe Scripting forum if you do need to still solve it, there are some very helpful people out their.

                               

                              And not helping you now but the new features keep coming and the latest Canon GPS can sync the newest canon camera's to the millisecond.

                               

                              But then you have to have both Canon (or Nikon) and the latest that are capable of handling this option.

                               

                              Most problems eventually get solved, it only takes time (and also money I'm afraid...)

                              • 12. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
                                Reimund T Community Member

                                Like I said, the different sorting results is probably  due to the filenames being different. It's too late to verify this, but I'm pretty sure I didn't get the naming right the first time around on the first computer, which means the two renaming actions got two different starting conditions.

                                 

                                I will probably cook together a python script that uses some other secondary sorting critera, like camera serial number and/or file size.

                                • 13. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
                                  Reimund T Community Member

                                  If anyone's interested I've now created a python program that renames and sorts primarily on exif date and secondary on filesize. In other words, pictures with the same created timestamps will be sorted by filesize. The likelyhood of two pictures taken the same time being equal in file size is so small that it's of no practical concern. The current filenames before the program has exectued will have no impact on the final sequence numbers.

                                   

                                  For example, "python imagenamer.py -d 3 -s 20120523_" will rename all the image files in the current working directory to 20120523_001.[ext], 20120523_002.[ext], ..., 20120523_[n-1].[ext], 200120523_[n].[ext], where n is the number of image files in the directory.

                                   

                                  It can be found here https://github.com/reimund/Image-Namer.

                                  • 14. Re: Bridge sorts files differently on two similar machines, why?
                                    Omke Oudeman Community Member

                                    Thanks for sharing, looks very impressive. Did you also posted on the scripting forum? More people will look for scripting solutions on that location