1 2 3 Previous Next 447 Replies Latest reply: Aug 14, 2013 6:14 PM by ACT.onn RSS

    AVCHD Workflow help

    Prof-McAlexander

      Hello all,

       

      I will be migrating to Premiere Pro CS6 from FInal Cut Pro 7 starting this fall for all of my video production classes.  I need some guidance on workflow. 

       

      We currently shoot on Sony NX70u which uses the AVCHD codec producing .MTS files.  I've been working with the native AVCHD files on PP CS6 for a few days now to get acquainted with the workflow and performance on our Macs (some iMacs and some Mac Pro towers) and so far so good.  My question:

       

      I know PP CS6 will work with the native AVCHD files, but I'm worried about performace issues with my Macs.  Is there any reason to transcode the AVCHD files to another codec before editing in PP?  I guess I'm still in the Final Cut Pro-Log and Transfer mode of thinking about files

       

      Cheers,

       

      Micheal

        • 1. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
          J. Simon Community Member

          If it works, why mess with it?

          • 2. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
            Reg Santo Tomas Adobe Employee

            Simple answer. No.

             

            If you run into performance issues during playback of your AVCHD footage, you have the option to change the playback resolution to accomodate your configuration.

             

            Reg Santo Tomas

            Premiere Pro

            • 3. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
              ExactImage Community Member

              Be aware that I've found a problem with some AVCHD footage in CS6 that didn't exist in CS5.5, namely that of long / spanned clips.  Shorter (non spanned) clips don't appear to have a problem, and if that's what you are feeding in to CS6 then stay with AVCHD, there is no reason to transcode.   Hopefully Adobe will fix the problem in the first update.

              • 4. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                Prof-McAlexander Community Member

                Hey Exactimage,

                 

                Students will be shooting long events (e.g. theater productions) and might have a problem with spanning, but for the most part they will be shooting shorter clips.

                 

                Micheal

                • 5. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                  John T Smith MVP

                  >long / spanned clips

                   

                  You don't say... are you copying just the clips from media to hard drive, or the entire folder from media to hard drive?

                  • 6. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                    ExactImage Community Member

                    Via the media browser, just like you're supposed to

                     

                    Also, there is a related bug in Media Encoder.  Drop this (30 min spanned) file on to a sequence in 5.5 and export via media encoder and it takes around 80 mins to export to H264.   Media Encoder CS6 starts off saying about 80 mins, then it goes up, and up, and up, and up and TBH I gave up at 9+ hours and only 30% encoded.

                     

                    The problem appears to be that it's reparsing the entire file all the time and this can be seen in the Windows resources monitor (where you can see the files than an App has open and how much it's reading).   Hopefully they figure this one out soon because it's causing me major problems.  

                     

                    Yes, I've submitted a bug report complete with a sample project demonstrating the problem.

                    • 7. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                      J. Simon Community Member

                      Curious though that you're the only one I've seen report the issue so far.  It's unlikely you're the only one using spanned AVCHD media in CS6.

                       

                      So...anyone else seeing this same problem?  Anyone else NOT seeing this problem with that media?

                      • 8. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                        ExactImage Community Member

                        I'm not the only one.  See other topics that mention problems playing back multiple video tracks and multicam.

                         

                        It makes sense that multicam is the one place it showed up first because that's where you tend to have the longest clips.

                         

                        And....it's not just one computer.  We have the same problem on 3 PCs here, and a Mac Pro and another editor off site - same problem - repeatable every time.   That's why I sent Adobe a sample project complete with source media.   They grabbed it late Friday so hopefully some one will have recreated the problem in house by now.

                        • 9. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                          J. Simon Community Member

                          See other topics that mention problems playing back multiple video tracks and multicam.

                           

                          The only one I recall was about 8 tracks I think.  Fewer tracks worked fine, so I don't know if your issue is the same as that issue.

                          • 10. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                            ExactImage Community Member

                            Well Jim,  I'm happy for you to download the sample project and see if you have the same problem..... it's only 5GB, but I don't want to post a public link here.....

                            • 11. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                              J. Simon Community Member

                              Click my name.

                              • 12. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                ExactImage Community Member

                                Sent.

                                • 13. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                  J. Simon Community Member

                                  Man, you're right!  Something is definitely wonky with AVCHD in CS6.

                                   

                                  I also now understand how Harm was getting 50 MB/s reads when trying to play this stuff.  It's not the media, it's CS6.  Opening the same exact file in CS5 works no problem, and reads at the expected 5 MB/s.

                                  • 14. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                    ExactImage Community Member

                                    Thank you Sir!   My sanity is restored!

                                    • 15. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                      J. Simon Community Member

                                      Yeah, this one is definitely a show stopper.  CS6 is just completely unusable in this current state.

                                       

                                      I'm kind of glad I don't (yet?) work with AVCHD.

                                      • 16. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                        ExactImage Community Member

                                        Jim Simon wrote:

                                         

                                        Yeah, this one is definitely a show stopper.  CS6 is just completely unusable in this current state.

                                         

                                        I'm kind of glad I don't (yet?) work with AVCHD.

                                        Yes indeed.  That's why I felt compelled to put that sample project together and send to Adobe.  I can't beleive they missed this in beta testing....

                                        • 17. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                          J. Simon Community Member

                                          Right?

                                          • 18. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                            ExactImage Community Member

                                            Wow.  Just got an email from Adobe acknowledging the problem and it's been passed to engineering.   Let's hope for some quick progress and a fix sooooooon

                                            • 19. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                              J. Simon Community Member

                                              Well, that's very good news.

                                              • 20. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                Reg Santo Tomas Adobe Employee

                                                ExactImage (or Jim since you have the files as well ),

                                                 

                                                Can you try and delete any XMP and pek files in the actual MTS directory and reimport the clips in CS6 to see if that improves the performance on your end? It seems that it may be some incompatibility with these files when moving from CS5.5 to CS6.

                                                 

                                                It's still an issue but this may be a quick remedy for you


                                                Reg Santo Tomas

                                                Premiere Pro QE

                                                • 21. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                  ExactImage Community Member

                                                  Reg Santo Tomas wrote:

                                                   

                                                  ExactImage (or Jim since you have the files as well ),

                                                   

                                                  Can you try and delete any XMP and pek files in the actual MTS directory and reimport the clips in CS6 to see if that improves the performance on your end? It seems that it may be some incompatibility with these files when moving from CS5.5 to CS6.

                                                   

                                                  It's still an issue but this may be a quick remedy for you


                                                  Reg Santo Tomas

                                                  Premiere Pro QE

                                                   

                                                  That would have been awesome if it had worked !    But alas it's made no difference, and if anything, it's made it worse.  Now I can't even play the first few seconds either   I do get audio but the video is stuck on the first frame.

                                                  • 22. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                    Reg Santo Tomas Adobe Employee

                                                    Hmm...

                                                     

                                                    OK, when I delete the XMP files and create a new project and import the mts file you provided, I am getting smooth playback on both Mac and PC.

                                                     

                                                    Prior to that, I was experiencing the same behavior that you had reported.

                                                     

                                                    EDIT: Scratch that. The playback seems to regress in performance after I start jumping around the clip.

                                                     

                                                    Back to more investigation. Stay tuned.

                                                     

                                                    Reg Santo Tomas

                                                    Premiere Pro QE

                                                    • 23. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                      J. Simon Community Member

                                                      No, that didn't really do anything.

                                                      • 24. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                        ExactImage Community Member

                                                        I just checked on the Mac too and no difference there either.

                                                        • 25. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                          ZachRosing Community Member

                                                          Add me to the list having trouble w/ AVCHD files. I just finished a project with two tracks of DV and one of AVCHD (all in a DV timeline), originally started in CS5 and finished in CS6 and had no problems at all. Takes that are 1hr+, clips that are broken up into at most 24 minute segments (once it hit 4gb). I was actually thrilled that CS6 had such snappier performance.

                                                           

                                                          But today I start another project, 1 track of DV and 1 of AVCHD, similar file lengths, and I'm having all sorts of trouble with media pending, no video and only audio, frozen images. Sometimes if I sit long enough it'll catch back up. It's just my AVCHD files, and not all of them do it, or some don't do it as bad. Or parts of the file will be ok but the beginning or end causes trouble.

                                                           

                                                          Until this is fixed I either can't use CS6 or I have to waste hours transcoding all this footage into a different file format before using it (which I'm doing w/ CS5, cause Media Encoder in CS6 seems to be cranky with it too). Adobe, when can we expect a fix for this? PLEASE don't tell me CS6.5...

                                                          • 26. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                            NielsPr

                                                            I just tried to use PP6 with AVCHD for the first time and had no luck.   Clips play for a few seconds and then get completely stuck.   This is video from a Canon HF G10.    Prelude had the same issues, too.

                                                             

                                                            Niels.

                                                            • 27. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                              jrobba3

                                                              I'm having the same issue.  I'm shooting with a Panasonic AF-100, and at this point I'm still using Final Cut to transcode my footage so I can have audio.  I've also noticed the video jumps around even when it does have audio.  Prelude has been extremely problematic for me, and it doesn't have a way to bring in clips that returned errors upon importing, I have to write down the clip numbers and bring them in individually.  I've also tried just dropping the file structure from the card straight to the hard drive.  It's a huge problem, and is keeping me from making the switch fully from FCP 7.

                                                               

                                                              -Joe

                                                              • 28. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                                J. Simon Community Member

                                                                Prelude has been extremely problematic for me

                                                                 

                                                                There is a separate forum for Prelude.

                                                                 

                                                                http://forums.adobe.com/community/premiere/prelude?view=discussions&start=0&numResults=30

                                                                • 29. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                                  Blind Monk Community Member

                                                                  Editing MOV "wrapped" AVCHD in PP CS6 is definitely a very slow and challenging experience on my end as well. Size and number of clips has no bearing on the speed at which PP operates.

                                                                   

                                                                  Glad to know that Adobe is on this -back to CS5.5 for now.

                                                                  • 30. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                                    SimonHy Community Member

                                                                    I can see that this is an existing problem that is being looked at by Adobe, but thought I'd chime in that it's effecting me too, so they can see it's wide spread. FS100 footage wrapped to .mov, media pending for ages every time you go to a new clip, and then when it does play it will often only play the video.

                                                                     

                                                                    First edit after moving our company to Adobe to avoid all the transcoding we've been having to do to work in FCP, and I find myself having to transcode most of my footage! Foolishly did all my testing in 5.5, which is now uninstalled. Bit of a shame, hopefully Adobe will get it sorted soon.

                                                                    • 31. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                                      J. Simon Community Member

                                                                      FS100 footage wrapped to .mov

                                                                       

                                                                      Why on earth would you do that?

                                                                      • 32. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                                        SimonHy Community Member

                                                                        Because we're coming from a Final Cut based workflow where it was essential. Also it means anyone can view the files, so helpful for directors and other people other than our editors with Premiere installed. Why wouldn't you do it? It's just re-wrapped, not transcoded. Anyway, the media plays back just as badly when imported directly as .mts files.

                                                                        • 33. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                                          J. Simon Community Member

                                                                          Why wouldn't you do it? It's just re-wrapped

                                                                           

                                                                          Because QuickTime is still a 32 bit application, and Premiere Pro needs a 'band-aid' to work with MOV files.

                                                                           

                                                                          Keep them native.  There are plenty of media players than can play the .mts streams directly, including VLC, which is one of the best media players on the planet and available for Windows, Mac and Linux, so pretty much anyone can install and use it.

                                                                          • 34. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                                            Blind Monk Community Member

                                                                            I do the same thing, and have run into the exact same issues with MOV wrapped FS100 footage as SimonHy. This was no problem in CS5.5.

                                                                             

                                                                            Jim Simon wrote:

                                                                             

                                                                            FS100 footage wrapped to .mov

                                                                             

                                                                            Why on earth would you do that?

                                                                             

                                                                            FYI- One reason that we wrap the footage is beacuse as it stands, there is no good way to catalog and add/manage metadata with AVCHD files- sidecars, ugh. Using Clipwrap to "wrap" the AVCHD files in MOV wrappers provides an extremely fast solution for adding inclusive metadata capabilities to each clip. It takes about the same ammount of time to transfer from card to disk, as it does to "wrap" AVCHD while transferring from card to disk.

                                                                             

                                                                            I don't see any advantage to keeping MTS files native for working in any NLE.

                                                                            • 35. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                                              Harm Millaard Community Member

                                                                              I don't see any advantage to keeping MTS files native for working in any NLE.

                                                                               

                                                                              If you insist on turning the 64 bit nature of PR back into the past and to 32 bit only, you are correct. But why then did you upgrade to a version over CS4? That was 32 bit.

                                                                              • 36. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                                                Blind Monk Community Member

                                                                                Harm Millaard wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                I don't see any advantage to keeping MTS files native for working in any NLE.

                                                                                 

                                                                                If you insist on turning the 64 bit nature of PR back into the past and to 32 bit only, you are correct. But why then did you upgrade to a version over CS4? That was 32 bit.

                                                                                Wait, I'm confused... Are you saying that MTS files are the only type supported in 64bit realm? Because if that were the case, then I'd eat my words.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Perhaps you read me wrong; I merely said that I see no advantages in keeping MTS files native. I did not say that I only see advantages in keeping MOV files.

                                                                                 

                                                                                Anyhow, back to what this thread is really about: AVCHD does not play well in Premiere Pro CS6, regardless of opinions or how it's brought in.

                                                                                • 37. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                                                  Harm Millaard Community Member

                                                                                  I have no problems with any AVCHD footage natively at all, but that may be a PC thing. I do have problems with MOV material.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Wait, I'm confused... Are you saying that MTS files are the only type supported in 64bit realm?

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Not at all. There are many formats supported in 64 bit native format, just not with that crappy Quircktime wrapper.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  If AVCHD does not play well in native mode, it is because of lacking hardware or OE.

                                                                                  • 38. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                                                    Prof-McAlexander Community Member

                                                                                    well I hope Adobe remedies this... it will be easier to teach my intro to video production students if I can leave the files in .MTS and not have to transcode them.  Some of them get really confued about the process of transcoding

                                                                                    • 39. Re: AVCHD Workflow help
                                                                                      ZachRosing Community Member

                                                                                      They better fix it fast, cause right now I can't use the software I paid several hundred dollars for. The same thing happened (different bug) with CS5.5, to the point that I had to return the program because it was unusable.

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