1 2 Previous Next 45 Replies Latest reply: Jun 21, 2012 11:35 PM by Yammer RSS

    Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts

    Noel Carboni Community Member

      Adobe:  For some reason you wouldn't listen when these problems were reported during beta and you went ahead and released the new version, so I'm not sure I should even bother, but here goes:

       

      Camera Raw 7.1 introduces columnar artifacts in the red color channel (that I've seen), apparently as a result of the operation of the new half-baked defringing features.  I've seen this in a number of images.

       

      Here's a raw Canon EOS-40D file and associated XMP with which you can reproduce the problem. Look at the red channel in the blue water of the pool.

       

      http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/ForumPosts/IMG_5037.zip

       

      Artifacts.jpg

       

      Now convert the same file with version 7.0 (or 7.1 with the Defringe sliders set to 0) and compare the result.

      NoArtifacts.jpg

       

      Trouble is, without being able to use the Defringe (Purple/Green) features at all, and considering the Defringe:  All Edges feature has been removed, edge artifacts from the debayering process get to be unacceptable.

       

      Let me spell out for you what you need to do, in case it isn't obvious:

       

      1.  You need to bring back the Defringe:  Off / Highlight Edges / All Edges feature that you had in 7.0 and earlier.

       

      2.  You need to fix this new slider-based defringe facility so that it doesn't do such nasty things to the image. I'd advise you to listen to Vit Novak's input on what else to do to it.

       

      With BOTH of these things done, between the two one could actually hope to get an improved result over the conversions from 7.0.  Fixing the second alone won't cut it.

       

      -Noel

        • 1. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
          Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață Community Member

          Yes, these look terrible. But I cannot reproduce it with your xmp.

           

          Are you sure the chroma NR is the same on both image. I've seen such vertical banding before, but it was due tu chroma NR and was present since LR3.0.

          • 2. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
            Yammer Community Member

            I can't see it either. Try it with a different camera profile.

            • 3. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
              Noel Carboni Community Member

              Thanks for checking, guys.

               

              I can reproduce it with the Camera Standard profile and converting to Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB as well as sRGB, though it gets more difficult to see in the wider-gamut profiles just because the levels aren't spaced as far apart.

               

              Make sure you have the Defringe controls set as shown here:

               

              ACRSettings.jpg

               

              Let me know if your settings with the XMP file don't look similar to this.  It may be possible these settings aren't being communicated properly.

               

              -Noel

              • 4. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                Yammer Community Member

                The values were Purple 1, 20/70 Green 1, 40/90. I don't have your Tone and Camera Presets.

                 

                I tried the above settings, Camera Standard, AdobeRGB and sRGB, and I couldn't get any banding.

                • 5. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                  ssprengel CommunityMVP

                  ACR output parameters of ProPhotoRGB / 16-bit / Sharpen For Screen or Matte is where I see the vertical banding in the highlighted area across the pool.

                   

                  I would argue that is a very contrived example because the detail sliders on both sharpening and luminance noise are set to maximum and the sharpening radius is set to a minimum so the finest sensor artifacts are accentuated and no color noise reduction has been applied at all, so there are all sorts of pinkish artificial details in the blue water that wouldn’t be there for the defringing to bite and reveal the vertical banding.

                   

                  The lesson is that one shouldn’t do color-range defrining without first doing some color noise-reduction so defringe is working on the real color detail, not just the noise and sensor artifacts.

                  • 6. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                    MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                    Either adjust the Purple Hue slider to avoid the blue of the water (use Alt/Option-drag on the left knob till the "black" visualization on the pool goes away), or use the local Defringe (with a minus value like -100) to protect the pool.  Yes, the Defringe tools can be used with inappropriate parameters and result in bad-looking images.  But used appropriately (in combination with other tools, like color NR, which would help this image), they should make the image look better.

                    • 7. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                      Noel Carboni Community Member

                      You're just not getting it. 

                       

                      I'm not interested in making THIS image look better.  I'm quite capable of doing that, though frankly this particular Camera Raw bug is difficult to spot while looking at a color image.  I've had it show up in several conversions without realizing it was there while doing the conversion.

                       

                      I'm interested in Camera Raw not introducing artifacts.

                       

                      I made the ranges wider than the defaults precisely because the old Defringe: All Edges function has been removed.  See my other thread:

                      http://forums.adobe.com/message/4451070?tstart=0#4451070

                       

                      I had actually found a pretty much acceptable compromise by widening the color range and setting my default for Green defringing to 1, employing the new color-fringing reduction feature to reduce the artifacts from Bayer color interpolation.  That WOULD have been acceptable if you hadn't created this columnar digital artifact bug.

                       

                      There are no edges in the pool.  You can clearly see that this is a digital effect. 

                       

                      Instead of arguing that I need to choose different settings to work around the bug you need to fix the bug.  Or bring back the feature that makes it unnecessary to choose these settings.

                       

                      Thanks.

                       

                      -Noel

                      • 8. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                        Jeff Schewe Community Member

                        MadManChan2000 wrote:

                         

                        Yes, the Defringe tools can be used with inappropriate parameters and result in bad-looking images.  But used appropriately (in combination with other tools, like color NR, which would help this image), they should make the image look better.

                         

                        Actually, inappropriate parameters for just about ANY of the adjustments can result in bad-looking images...

                         

                        I actually think it's the blue saturation pump in HSL and Shadows set to 93 that has to do with the pattern noise that's happening and less to do with the CA/Fringe removal.

                        • 9. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                          ssprengel CommunityMVP

                          Noel, do you mean that the settings applied to this example image are mostly your default settings for ACR processing, no color-noise-reduction, maxed-out sharpening detail, minimized sharpening radius, maxed-out luminance-noise-reduction-detail, no sharpen masking, and a wide-range of colors for defringing?

                          • 10. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                            Noel Carboni Community Member

                            Yes.  My defaults differ somewhat from the canned defaults for good reasons.  One such reason is that I have a better color noise reduction tool of my own invention than the color-noise reduction provided in Camera Raw, and I can get much better color detail this way.  And I use the maxed-out detail setting (with a fairly high luminance noise reduction setting) because it produces upsampled results that are far better than what one gets with the defaults.

                             

                            I'll wager my conversions are (with 7.0) equal or superior to anyone's. I know what I'm doing here.

                             

                            Understand that I've been using these what you would call "extreme" settings for a long time.  No such artifacts have appeared before.  What I'm reporting in this thread is new to Camera Raw 7.1.

                             

                            If you would like to debate this, I suggest you resurrect Camera Raw 7.0 or use Camera Raw 6.7 and try some of this stuff.

                             

                            FYI, I had this happen on a PSD image I opened through Camera Raw to try to take advantage of the CA correction as well.  With that image virtually all the settings were center-scale, save for the color-fringing corrections.  So Jeff, there's no need to look for esoteric reasons this is happening - it's a bug with larger-than-default ranges in the new color-fringing reduction settings.  I'll try to distill out such an example for folks to download (I note that it tends to happen in a large file, but not in a small one, based on a few tests).

                             

                            -Noel

                            • 11. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                              Noel Carboni Community Member

                              By the way, isn't it obvious by the way that the artifacts stop along a horizontal line that it's a digital programming bug?

                               

                              Here, I've enhanced the output to show this more clearly...

                               

                              ArtifactLine.jpg

                               

                              I'd suggest looking at processes that divide up the image into portions to work on it - for example the multi-threading logic.

                               

                              The lines stay vertical (though they don't always appear in the same places) even if you dial in keystone distortion.

                               

                              KeystoneLinesStillVertical.jpg

                               

                              -Noel

                              • 12. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                                This is expected behavior, given your Defringe settings.  You can adjust your Defringe settings to make the artifacts go away.  This is not a bug in the multi-threading logic.

                                • 13. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                  Noel Carboni Community Member

                                  First off I simply can't agree with you, Eric, because it's intermittent. I've seen it appear and disappear on the very same image.

                                   

                                  And even if it were expected, who would actually think this would be acceptable expected behavior?  Have Adobe's quality standards suddenly been lowered?

                                   

                                  We're not talking about some fringe case here - I've seen it in actual images passed through Camera Raw 7.1 RC, and now 7.1.

                                   

                                  But fine, ignore it if you wish.  It's going to come back and bite you in the behind.  Me, I'm staying on Camera Raw 7.0, which works fine for what I need.

                                   

                                  I don't guess I'll spend any more time trying to prepare a silver platter example for you. 

                                   

                                  -Noel

                                  • 14. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                    ssprengel CommunityMVP

                                    How color fringes are removed has changed.  It is not a bug nor a lowering of standards.  Your default settings are extreme (sliders are at their extreme 0 or 100 ends) and ACR’s processing is not optimized for such settings.  Hopefully defringing will continue to better.

                                    • 15. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                      MadManChan2000 Adobe Employee

                                      Correct, with the Defringe tool being considerably more flexible than before, it is certainly possible to use the sliders to get to bad results.  (In contrast, the previous Defringe popup would never produce these types of artifacts, but it was also unable to deal with longitudinal CA, flare, etc.) 

                                       

                                      Our standards have not gone down.  Instead, they've gone up.  It is now possible to take care of (often severe) cases of chromatic aberrations that earlier versions of ACR were unable to treat.  However, to achieve those results, you need to use the tools correctly.  Incorrect use of the tools can result in artifacts and bad-looking results.  This isn't new.  Most of our controls actually have this property (e.g., dragging Exposure to -5 makes this image look bad).

                                       

                                      I'll look into your claim about the artifacts being intermittent.  This is indeed a possible error, though I've not reproduced it yet.  Perhaps you were adjusting the Defringe parameters, and in some cases you saw the artifacts, and in some cases you didn't (which would be expected behavior).

                                      • 16. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                        ssprengel CommunityMVP

                                        Adding a Defringe Mask slider, that works the same as the Sharpen Mask slider, as a way to restrict the new Defringing to sets of edges might mitigate most of the issues in Noel’s use case, and make it more like the edge-centric defringing from before. The issue may be that it is picking up the micro-contrast of the extreme detail enhancement which is more finely grained than the actual edges in the image.

                                        • 17. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                          Noel Carboni Community Member

                                          Thanks, ssprengel, for not bothering to take the time to understand that this has nothing to do with my extreme settings, outside of just widening the color ranges for defringing a little.

                                           

                                          -Noel

                                          • 18. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                            Noel Carboni Community Member

                                            FYI, I've been able to reproduce it on the raw image I posted above with virtually all the controls zeroed/centered.  I can see the problem if I open it to any size, but I normally open to upsampled resolutions of 6144 x 4096.

                                             

                                            I've seen it happen on a 4275 x 2854 JPEG I opened a few days ago (the astroimage I posted in the other thread.  It did not happen today on that same image with the same (stored) settings.

                                             

                                            You folks need to realize that the edge-centric defringing from before served a different purpose than this new set of controls, and having both sets of controls at the command of the user would be useful.

                                             

                                            -Noel

                                            • 19. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                              ssprengel CommunityMVP

                                              You’re right.  I did my fiddling over my lunch hour at work.  Perhaps when I am free in the evening I can determine exactly which parameters affect things the most.

                                              • 20. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                ssprengel CommunityMVP

                                                So the problem is intermittent, and the extreme settings were just a distraction.  Does it happen in Lightroom, if you have that?

                                                • 21. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                  Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                  Sorry, I don't have Lightroom.

                                                   

                                                  Thinking back, since the 7.1 release just came out, it was probably with the 7.1 RC that I had the problem on the astroimage the other day.

                                                   

                                                  I would be happy if I could make these new controls as effective by default as the Defringe: All Edges feature was before at mitigating debayering color artifacts, without adding these new lines.

                                                   

                                                  Unfortunately, I'm unable to spend more time now trying to create an example that makes it easier to reproduce the problem, but I will close by repeating that a color-fringing correction tool should in NO WAY make the artifacts I'm showing here, regardless of how extreme the settings are! 

                                                   

                                                  -Noel

                                                  • 22. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                    Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                    Okay, I found a few more minutes.  Here's something:

                                                     

                                                    I converted the very same image twice, which I posted above, with the exact same parameters, but the only difference being a few pixels cropped off the bottom (using the Camera Raw crop).  Note that the bottom is quite a ways from the part of the image shown here in this crop showing the red channel.

                                                     

                                                    I think this pretty clearly illustrates that the artifacts are not dependent on the content of the image.

                                                     

                                                     

                                                    -Noel

                                                    • 23. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                      ssprengel CommunityMVP

                                                      What happens if you crop the TOP few pixels off the top of the image instead of the bottom few?  Do the details of the vertical pattern shift or not? 

                                                       

                                                      In your current example the fine details don’t change, only the extent of where they appear.  To me that suggests the pattern is coming from your sensor but the areas where the pattern is revealed is based on some internal Lightroom tiled processing that is different for each processing thread.   The fact they shift when the bottom edge of the visible image is changed suggests that the camera data is stored bottom-first, because the image is actually upside-down on the sensor.

                                                      • 24. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                        Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                        When I crop from the top the division where the lines stop moves down.  I'm sticking with my theory that when they break up the image into bands/tiles something's uninitialized in one/some of the conversion threads.  If I crop just a few pixels from the left the bands change in nature entirely.

                                                         

                                                        -Noel

                                                        • 25. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                          ssprengel CommunityMVP

                                                          I wanted to post what my PS-CS6 ACR 7.1 shows for the red-channel in your CR2/XMP so you won't think we aren't bothering to notice something.  If I look really, really hard, I can see some vertical bands in one area of the image, but not nearly to the extent your shows.  It might be nice to see another XMP that actually has the settings you're displaying in it, because what your had and what you screen-captured above are different at least on the Defringe color-range parts.  The screen-shot I'm including, here, is after extracting the CR2 and XMP from the ZIP and opening directly into PS-CS6, going through ACR 7.1 w/o changing any development settings, and using ProPhotoRGB / 8-bit / Sharpen For Screen-High, native resolution as the ACR output parameters:

                                                          2012-05-30_192825.jpg

                                                          BTW, I can't get LR4.1 to show me this sort of problem, even if I use Edit In Photoshop and it goes silently through ACR 7.1 on the way in, although there may not be any ACR-output sharpening going into PS-CS6 that way.

                                                           

                                                          A question I would have about your screen shots and ours, is how yours have so much more contrast to them.  Are you doing something in Levels to bring out the banding, more?

                                                          • 26. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                            Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                            Thanks for reproducing the problem.  It can be more or less subtle depending on the output color space among other reasons.

                                                             

                                                            Yes, I have enhanced some of the images above to make the problem appear more obvious. I did this because I anticipated people failing to see the problem.  I wasn't wrong, because it's clear most people don't want to see the problem.

                                                             

                                                            But know this:  I have seen this problem appear very obviously in other images - for example an output image of an astronomical object that's substantially blue and magenta without any extreme settings whatsoever.  In that case I opened it as a JPEG in Camera Raw specifically and only to remove some color-fringing, and Camera Raw destroyed the image quality.  This was the result.

                                                             

                                                            ColumnarColorArtifacts.jpg

                                                             

                                                            I'm done working up more samples at this point.  What I've posted is enough that any quality-oriented development team would initiate troubleshooting processes.  I have said that I can separate imager artifacts from the digital problems I'm showing just by introducing keystone distortion.  I imagine that could be done with rotation as well.  The problem is clearly in one of the later phases of the conversion, as it is always vertically oriented in the output image.

                                                             

                                                            Since no one has asked me up to now, which is in itself surprising, I am seeing this problem using an 8 core PC workstation running Windows 7 x64, with 16 GB of RAM.  That I'm running Windows may have been obvious from my screenshots, but the other stuff wasn't, and it probably matters.

                                                             

                                                            Thanks to all who have contributed here.

                                                             

                                                            -Noel

                                                            • 27. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                              ssprengel CommunityMVP

                                                              Others need to be able to see what you’re seeing for it not to be just a hardware problem with your particular computer—memory speed issues or something.  Selectively removing half your RAM might narrow down if that is the situation.  Maybe LR does have a bug with an 8-core processor that is less obvious with a hyperthreaded 4-core Xeon like I have. 

                                                               

                                                              Can you give the steps I can do to your image after applying the XMP adjustments and opening in Photoshop so it has the same high-contrast look and the streaking is obvious the way it is in the screenshots?

                                                              • 28. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                                Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                                I know your heart is in the right place, ssprengel, but just let it drop.  The problem is already plainly obvious if you use the XMP and raw image that I have already posted above.  I might suspect my specific computer more if you hadn't also clearly shown that you can reproduce the problem too.  I've already suggested ways you can confirm you're seeing it, separating it from sensor photosite/banding issues.  Hint:  Try rotating the image and choosing development values that allow you to see a medium-dark gray in the red channel.  Turn the noise reduction ALL THE WAY UP if you want it to be really obvious.

                                                                 

                                                                RotatedNRUp.jpg

                                                                 

                                                                I've been around long enough and have proven enough expertise here that folks should take what I report seriously, rather than arguing with me.  I have more computer software engineering experience than virtually anyone here, not to mention almost 20 years experience with Photoshop, and frankly I find it insulting to have people say or imply that my choices in control settings are bad, or that obvious visible problems are "just the way it is expected to work".

                                                                 

                                                                What part of Camera Raw shouldn't be introducing pattern noise am I mistaken about?

                                                                 

                                                                Have we really come so far with cell phone cameras that folks are having trouble perceiving such obvious image aberrations?

                                                                 

                                                                -Noel

                                                                • 29. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                                  Vit Novak Community Member

                                                                  Well, I don't believe that "rotating image" is actualy rotating it. I suppose that only display of it is rotated

                                                                  At least I would program it that way

                                                                  • 30. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                                    ssprengel CommunityMVP

                                                                    The rotation is to prove the that it is not a sensor defect being amplified.  If an image rotated at 45-degrees still shows the lines as vertical with respect to the exported image, which is what Noel is seeing, then the artifacts are from the processing not the sensor,

                                                                    • 31. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                                      Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                                      Vit, keep in mind what I'm showing above is the actual converted image, not the Camera Raw preview display.

                                                                       

                                                                      The salient points are these:

                                                                       

                                                                      • The pixels from the sensor photosites, which more or less lined up vertically with the columns in the structure around the pool, are now shown traversing the converted image at an angle.  Yet the pattern noise is still perfectly vertical and/or horizontal. 

                                                                       

                                                                      • Noise reduction turned up to "butter smooth" does not reduce or affect the pattern noise.

                                                                       

                                                                      I know you know your way around algorithms.  Don't these things say to you that the problem is not associated directly with the photosites/pixels in the original image?

                                                                       

                                                                      -Noel

                                                                      • 32. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                                        Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                                        Thomas Knoll once told me, quite a long time ago, that Camera Raw at the time had some code in it to attempt to reduce pattern noise in an image.  I wonder if remnants of that could still be around...

                                                                         

                                                                        -Noel

                                                                        • 33. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                                          Jeff Schewe Community Member

                                                                          Noel Carboni wrote:

                                                                           

                                                                          I've been around long enough and have proven enough expertise here that folks should take what I report seriously, rather than arguing with me.

                                                                           

                                                                          If what you had done was simply describe the problem and provide the source raw and how to duplicate it (yes I cen see "something" with the Defringe hues you used) without the *******' attitude (which while is not entirely new for you, recently you have been WAY over the top).

                                                                           

                                                                          Saying:

                                                                           

                                                                          Let me spell out for you what you need to do, in case it isn't obvious:

                                                                           

                                                                          1.  You need to bring back the Defringe:  Off / Highlight Edges / All Edges feature that you had in 7.0 and earlier.

                                                                           

                                                                          2.  You need to fix this new slider-based defringe facility so that it doesn't do such nasty things to the image. I'd advise you to listen to Vit Novak's input on what else to do to it.

                                                                           

                                                                          Makes it almost impossible to reason with you...leave the theatrics to the trolls...if you want to have a professional relationship with the engineers on ACR/LR, you need to show more respect and tone down the rhetoric...

                                                                           

                                                                          Eric is a bright guy. If you show him the problem and provide the proof, you don't have to ram this stuff down his throat, ok?

                                                                           

                                                                          Lighten up and back off...

                                                                          • 34. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                                            Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                                            Back off?  I should heed your expert advice on avoiding confrontation, Jeff?    I have to assume by your unwavering support of Adobe on this issue that you are looking forward to having stylish artifacts like these in your own images.  I guess this will define your new style for 2012.  LOL

                                                                             

                                                                            All the slack that's going to be cut on this has already been cut.

                                                                             

                                                                            Hey, I could have just quietly dropped back to 7.0 and just have my own images be superior to those made by those using 7.1, but no - I chose to try to help Adobe by pointing out a problem to them here.

                                                                             

                                                                            When I reported this problem during the beta, I was clearly ignored.  When I reported it again after the release, I was argued-with.

                                                                             

                                                                            I don't need to be argued-with nor reasoned-with - Adobe needs to listen to people who know what they're talking about.  People not blindly praising the emperor's new clothes.

                                                                             

                                                                            I don't need nor expect appreciation, but I had thought I might have earned enough respect around here that Adobe's first response wouldn't be "choose different settings, stupid".

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            An output image quality problem should be a release show-stopper. Experts like me and Vit telling Adobe that their latest color fringing reduction changes aren't working well enough should be considered seriously. Instead, it's just business as usual: Release whatever's in the pipeline.

                                                                             

                                                                             

                                                                            Adobe's dropping quality standards are something I find myself wanting less and less to be associated with each passing day.

                                                                             

                                                                            Just typing this message took me longer than it should have, because of this bogus forum software.

                                                                             

                                                                            There's a difference between leadership and "too big to fail" thinking.

                                                                             

                                                                            This is my last post in this thread.  Thanks for your participation.

                                                                             

                                                                            -Noel

                                                                            • 35. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                                              Jeff Schewe Community Member

                                                                              Noel Carboni wrote:

                                                                               

                                                                              Hey, I could have just quietly dropped back to 7.0 and just have my own images be superior to those made by those using 7.1, but no - I chose to try to help Adobe by pointing out a problem to them here.

                                                                               

                                                                              When I reported this problem during the beta, I was clearly ignored.  When I reported it again after the release, I was argued-with.

                                                                               

                                                                              If you had simply reported the problem and supplied the raw file then I doubt all this drama would have occured...you were the one to rachet up the rhetoric.

                                                                               

                                                                              Just to be clear, your problem with the Fringing controls are different than Vit's issue regarding the removal of the CA portion of the Lens Profile. Not the same problem at all. The argument others have made for removing the manual CA controls largely was based on their attempts are removing both flavors of CA even though it really only worked on lateral CA removal.

                                                                               

                                                                              Your demands that the old defringe options are unlikely to gain any traction (pretty sure that's what Eric already said) so, the best option for you is to provide the examples and let Eric decide what to do...and tone down the rhetoric...it's not doing you any good at all.

                                                                              • 36. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                                                Vit Novak Community Member

                                                                                Jeff, I suppose Noel had in mind example I posted a few days ago with some remarks about defringe function and not example I posted several weeks ago. It was really complicated situation (not only fringing, but also different color temperature) so I didn't expect ACR to perform flawlessly, but defringe was misbihaving a bit too much (my personal opinion only)

                                                                                 

                                                                                Noel, don't worry. In my last dreams, there was better defringe function in ACR, with additional slider about luminance treshold. Only that - when I clicked Camera raw preferences button, the window was displaying version 8.1. Then I woke up 

                                                                                • 37. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                                                  Jeff Schewe Community Member

                                                                                  Vit Novak wrote:

                                                                                   

                                                                                  Jeff, I suppose Noel had in mind example I posted a few days ago with some remarks about defringe function and not example I posted several weeks ago.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  But in that thread you indicated that the middle image adjustments was actually pretty good, right? And yes, you showed an example where pushing too far creates a band of a desaturated border which sucked. But as long as you don't push things, it worked ok, right? Did you compare that to the old manual slider CA and the all edges defringe in ACR 6.6?

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                                                    MikeKPhoto Community Member

                                                                                    I have not been a forum regular like many who contribute to this forum and others. There are some folks that have a great online attitude, then there are others that seem to be the Voice of Adobe, when clearly they are not. I have had responses "that will never happen", well from someone on Adobe's payroll, like a Product Manager,  I would be upset, but that is the official position, and I have a choice to either accept or find an alternative product. But when someone outside of Adobe makes a sweeping statement like that it does not sit well.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    Adobe has some magic products our there, Lightroom is a killer, LR4 was a premature baby and many folks got burned, CS6 well that was a great release, perfect no, but more than usuable but with some quirks. But Adobe has a long way to go to improve communication with their customers, when you get asked to send a problem file, you comply, then it goes dark. Was the file received? Who know, could have gone to the big bit bucket in the sky, but not acknowledging is breaking a trust, which in the world of customer support is a big no no! It also caused frustration to rise, and I can sympathize with Noel, this forum site is bad, the prima donnas are bad, some of the Adobe Engineers manners are bad, many folks automatically assume that English is the native language of everyone, and some poor soul trying their best to communicate, gets terse responses like I don't have a clue what you are saying - that's terrible, if that is all someone has to say, it should not be said - it's insulting.

                                                                                     

                                                                                    So everyone take a deep breath, respond to folks how you would like to be responded to, and Adobe, please acknowledge the people on this forum are really doing your job

                                                                                     

                                                                                    End of rant, and I am off to bed

                                                                                     

                                                                                    MK

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Camera Raw 7.1 Columnar Color Artifacts
                                                                                      D Fosse Community Member

                                                                                      Personally I find this whole thread shocking and deeply disturbing and it brings back unpleasant memories.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      What shocks me is the all-out confrontational righteous attitude that really dead-ended the whole thread in the very first post. I'm the only one who understands this and you are all way beneath me. Not in so many words, but the implication is clear enough. That attitude is never a pretty sight.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      No one's that omniscient. No one.

                                                                                      I had thought I might have earned enough respect around here

                                                                                      Well, yes, but mine was deeply shaken by this.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      Otherwise I'm not taking part in this. I haven't seen these defects, if they are there, and I have no intention to go look for them.

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