28 Replies Latest reply: Jun 10, 2012 9:43 PM by needles27 RSS

    Moving instances around slugish?

    Butch2oc Community Member

      Moving clips around on a timeline is slow or sluggish when I have my timeline expanded to fill a monitor, when my timeline is reduced as in an adobe window preset the movement of clips is as expected, very responsive.

      When I grab a clip on the timeline it turns to a ghosted clip (looks exactly as a normal clip but ghosted but still has clip name etc when moving around).

       

      Our other suite has exactly the same software and almost identical hardware and when clips are grabbed on this machine with a large timeline the clips actually turn to a grey only ghost (with no clip details etc) and moving around is very fast and responsive.

       

      Suite 1 with the issue:

      MacPro 4.1 - MAC OSX 10.6.6 - GTX285 card - 16gigs DDR3 ECC ram

       

      Suite 2 without the issue:

      MacPro 3.1 - MAC OSX 10.6.6 - GTX285 card - 22gigs DDR2 - FB-DIMM ram

       

      As mentioned both suites have identical software (all latest versions) and have been rebuilt from the ground up together on the same day.

       

      We have gone through our settings in premiere together and all prefs etc are the same. We have identical timelines when testing.

      Does anyone know of any setting anywhere else that may be causing this issue?

      Cheers

        • 1. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
          dradeke Adobe Employee

          I"m wondering a bit about your storage?  Could it be that one of the systems is playing of the main drive?  Also, what codec are you using?  Could you have rendered out an animation codec by mistake on the clip your testing?

           

          Standard stuff to try would be

          1. Make sure you have the latest CUDA driver from NVIDIA for 10.6.6 http://www.nvidia.com/object/mac-driver-archive.html
          2. Clean your media cache (preferences/media)
          3. trash your prefs - http://blogs.adobe.com/genesisproject/2009/11/having_weird_behavior_with_an.html

           

          Hope this helps,

          Dennis

          • 2. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
            Pharther Phurther Community Member

            Also experiencing sluggish behavior.

             

            Mac OS 10.6.6

             

            12 Core Mac Pro 2.93 Dual

             

            32 GB RAM

             

            GeForce GTX 285

             

             

            Will keep note in this post .. but I just posted another one with Video Effects set and center points on Program Monitor for keying in timeline sluggish and non-responsive.

            • 3. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
              Pharther Phurther Community Member

              Also, while this is occurring .. check your Activity Monitor.

               

              Mine shows @ %150 CPU use in PP during sluggish moments.

              • 4. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                Butch2oc Community Member

                Hi Dennis,

                Thanks for your input, just to let you know I have tried everything you mentioned before posting. I have an internal raid 0 array setup that gives well over 300mbs read/write. I have many tb's of space and more than enough ram and certainly don't run anything but software off my main drive

                It is nothing to do with codecs or file types as this sluggish behaviour occurs even with a bars & tone clip generated from within.

                I have contacted adobe and they are looking into it also. They tried on their systems and I think they have found the same issue. The remarkable thing as I mentioned in my original post was...

                 

                When I grab a clip on the timeline it turns to a ghosted clip (looks exactly as a normal clip but ghosted but still shows clip name etc in the ghosted instance when moving around).

                 

                Our other suite has exactly the same software and almost identical hardware and when clips are grabbed on this machine with a large timeline the clips actually turn to a grey only ghost (with no clip details etc) and moving around is very fast and responsive

                 

                Adobe said that when they move clips around it displays ghosted instances in the same way my system does.

                So I am still a little perplexed with this issue.

                In response to Pharther my cpu usage ranges from 90 to 100 % when moving basic clips around.

                Cheers & Thanks

                • 5. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                  Pharther Phurther Community Member

                  Also I posted this:

                   

                  http://forums.adobe.com/message/3444554#3444554

                   

                  Basically:

                   

                  OS X 10.6.6

                   

                  To clarify ... is seems to happen with all center and corner set points related to any video effects that are adjusted via keyframes. ( Motion )

                   

                  The numbered index that can be controlled by a click-hold mouse command seems to work fine .. and doesn't product the same effect.

                   

                  I have restarted, reloaded, re-edited .. and cleared the media cache.

                   

                  The Activity Monitor lists 150% CPU use while this occurs.

                   

                  PP is also unresponsive everywhere while the adjustment plays 'catch-up'.

                  • 6. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                    dradeke Adobe Employee

                    Butch,  send me the case # from Adobe so I can look it up.

                     

                    Dennis

                    • 7. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                      dradeke Adobe Employee

                      Try turning off the GPU in Premiere and try again.  Also make sure (if you are using GPU) that you're using the latest nvidia driver.

                       

                      Dennis

                      • 8. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                        Pharther Phurther Community Member

                        Please inform me where to turn off the GPU.

                         

                        I find no such option in Premiere.

                         

                        I have the latest Nvidia driver.

                         

                        The sluggish performance is not a Graphic Card issue .. as far as I can tell.

                         

                        Very simple to reproduce every time:

                         

                        1.) Add a video clip to a sequence.

                         

                        2.) Choose effect "Motion".

                         

                        3.) Highlight Motion effect to appear Center Set point.

                         

                        4.) Mouse Click Hold Drag Center point back and forth. Watch it gag.

                         

                        5.) Try Mouse Click Hold Drag on Position Index Numbers. No Problem.

                        • 9. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                          Pharther Phurther Community Member

                          The extremely long sluggish time due to frame set point movements are not effected if I toggle the Mercury Hardware // Software Playback either way .. and shouldn't have anything to do with the graphics card anyway, since it is fine when using the numbered set points index and the click/hold/drag.

                           

                          Could you confirm this and send it up to the bug dept. It is definitely worthwhile to fix.

                           

                          Also: It would be nice that ....

                           

                          Adjusting the 'motion' frames should respond to the arrow keys ( or / as the numbered values should change ) ... such as in Photoshop.

                           

                          This seems to be a inconsistency in common workflow between Adobe products.

                           

                          Maybe if the was a way to customize the keyboard for this ....

                           

                           

                           

                          The CS5 is a great suite .. I wish I was part of the design team to update certain features I am visualizing from being a 20 + year veteran of Adobe apps..

                           

                          Thanks for your help.

                          • 10. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                            Pharther Phurther Community Member

                            ... above .. ( Such as the 'Move' tool in Photoshop )

                             

                            My Point:

                             

                            Making fine one pixel increment adjustments and large 'visual' frame drags are necessary for optimal workflow.

                             

                            The sluggishness / lack of these features need to be addressed.

                             

                             

                            • 11. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                              Butch2oc Community Member

                              Here you go Dennis, sorry for the delay, been away.

                              Case number #0182049590

                               

                               

                              Adobe may be contacting me today I believe.

                              • 12. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                dradeke Adobe Employee

                                Pharther Phurther wrote:

                                 

                                Please inform me where to turn off the GPU.

                                 

                                I find no such option in Premiere.

                                 

                                 

                                Project Settings/General is where you will find the ability to turn off the GPU (at the bottom of the pane)

                                • 13. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                  dradeke Adobe Employee

                                  Butch2oc wrote:

                                   

                                  Here you go Dennis, sorry for the delay, been away.

                                  Case number #0182049590

                                   

                                   

                                  Adobe may be contacting me today I believe.

                                  I'll take a look into it.

                                  • 14. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                    Butch2oc Community Member

                                    Thanks Dennis,

                                    Strange thing with the Adobe response team...  after they have rung me a few times they now need my number again... hmmmm

                                    • 15. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                      Butch2oc Community Member

                                      Dennis here is a link to a video I made with the comparison between systems.

                                      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7f9jQ_HLAg

                                       

                                      Just to re-iterate we have been operating with FCP and decided with my testing late last year to head down the premiere path, so... At the start of the year we rebuilt our systems from scratch.

                                      We put on board all OS software and updated. We then cloned our systems so we had a clean backup with no other software on board.

                                      We then put all other required components plus CS5 and updated and then cloned our systems at this point.

                                      Problem exists at this point.

                                      Hope video helps, I will provide the link via the support portal aswell.

                                      Cheers

                                      • 16. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                        drewlaunchfilm Community Member

                                        I have the same issue, running 10.6.6 with Premier 5.0.3.  Sluggish behavor in the same way Butch2oc has.  I also have a MacPro 3.1- Mac OSX 10.6.6 that does not have the issue. I can replicated this senario identically.  Could this be an issue with MacPro 4.1 systems?

                                        • 17. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                          Pharther Phurther Community Member

                                          My Wacom BluetoothTablet was the culprit .. I used another non-wireless mouse and it was fine.

                                           

                                          Wacom never returned to me with a fix.

                                          • 18. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                            LFedit Community Member

                                            Pharther Phurther, did you uninstall your wacom drivers to get the instances to speed up? Or did you just use a non wireless mouse?

                                            • 19. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                              drewlaunchfilm Community Member

                                              will try removing wacom drivers

                                              • 20. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                                Pharther Phurther Community Member

                                                Used a non-wireless mouse ...

                                                 

                                                It is the repetition of the mouse click signal that overruns the buffer. There is no need for all the information ... which was not a problems on older slower machines.

                                                • 21. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                                  LFedit Community Member

                                                  My problem still exists after using a non-wireless mouse, uninstalling wacom and logitech drivers.  All instances still behave sluggish, i will post any new findings while I continue to search for an answer.

                                                  • 22. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                                    Pharther Phurther Community Member

                                                    Again the sluggishness is actually too-fast ... the mouse coordinates collected from holding the click down and dragging overrun the mouse buffer to the point where it freezes the movement trying to catch up.

                                                     

                                                    The only solution is Adobe Tech. They need to address this in update and only in certain instances it is a problem. My guess is that they never will since their is probably no room for new code placement in the app.

                                                     

                                                    I have solved my problem with a mouse. Not sure why that didn't fix yours ...

                                                    • 23. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                                      Butch2oc Community Member

                                                      Just to let you know, we have 2 systems and have finally

                                                      found that it is something to do with monitor resolution and not with mouse.

                                                      The system I demonstrated in my video which worked fine suddenly had the slow instance movement

                                                      so after some testing we found that it only worked "as it should" when the timeline was

                                                      made full screen (with the " ~ " key) . When we reduce its size in the monitor gradually,

                                                      you can actually get to a point where movement becomes sluggish again.

                                                      My systems maximum monitor resolution is 1920 x 1080 and I can't reproduce this functionality / non functionality.

                                                      The other systems monitors resolution can go higher.

                                                      So in summary there seems to be a definate relashionship between monitor resolution and this annoying sluggish movement.

                                                      It would be great if someone else could confirm this with us.

                                                      Cheers

                                                      • 24. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                                        LFedit Community Member

                                                        Thanks Butch2oc, good find!

                                                        I can confirm this result.  Instances on my 30" cinema display lag in the time line with a wired mouse, wacom intous4, and a logitech mx revolution.  When the timeline is minimized to roughly 1/4 of the screen real estate, the problem goes away and does not exist with all three input devices.  I use dual monitors, and was able to replicated the problem on my secondary display which has a display of 1920x1080, the lag reoccurs if the timeline window takes up more than 1/2 of the screen resolution.  Please submit bug reports if anyone else can replicate this as well.

                                                        • 25. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                                          the_wine_snob Community Member

                                                          Here is the Bug Report link.

                                                           

                                                          Good luck,

                                                           

                                                          Hunt

                                                          • 26. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                                            Butch2oc Community Member

                                                            Just to let you know I am now tier2 with this issue.  I actually posted this problem with adobe when i first posted it on the forum. Adobe have been able to recreate and I am hooking up with them soon. Will keep you informed

                                                            • 27. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                                              PDVPro.com

                                                              I have the same thing. Running a 12 core with 2 27" LED displays. OS 10.6.8, a mere 16GB od RAm and an ATI Radeon HD 5870.

                                                               

                                                              Timeline is SUPER laggy unless made full screen. What gives? This ever get fixed?

                                                              • 28. Re: Moving instances around slugish?
                                                                needles27 Community Member

                                                                Lion fixed it.