13 Replies Latest reply: Jun 29, 2012 5:58 AM by Jeff Bellune RSS

    understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer

    nefl777

      Hi guys, I'm putting this in the Encore forum because my question concerns the 'burning' aspect, but it might possibly go into the Premier Pro forum (?). In any event, I have concerns about the quality differences of dual versus single layer.

       

      I have a Dance Recital project that is 3 hrs long, has 1 top menu and 5 submenus for chapters. I use the Adobe link function to "send to Encore".  Here are the attributes:

       

      HDV

        HDV 1080i30 (60i)

      16:9 interlaced HD video

      29.97 fps

      frame: 1440h 1080v (1.3333)

      audio; 48000

      drop frame timecode numbering.

       

      I created a dual layer disk, then I re-rendered and created a single layer. For each, I burn to an ISO file and then use "Mac" Disk Utility to burn them to the appropriate media.

       

      When I play each disk on my dvd player, there doesn't seem to be anything huge jumping out at me for quality on the single layer.  I'm baffled there really isn't anything different.

       

      Are there settings or steps I've missed?  thanks so much for your expertise!

      NEF

        • 1. Re: understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer
          Giorgio1957 Community Member

          Hi Nef,

          a DL disc has an higher capacity,so it can keep more datas than the single layer do.

          This means that an eavier movie can easily be burnt in a DL.

          Your 3 hours long movies tells a lot as well as nothing.

          Just an example to make it more understandable:

          Bitrate is a setting that can increase a lot a movie "weight".

          Usually, an high bitrate is needed for movies with speedy actions and is absolutely useless with slow actions.

          Movies with slow actions inside do not need an high bitrate so there are no visible differences if you edit it with a low or high bitrate.

          That's probably why you do not see any differences between a DL and a single one.

          Hope I've understood your question and my answer will be helpful.

           

          Giorgio

          • 2. Re: understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer
            nefl777 Community Member

            hi and thanks for replying. So what you are saying is... if my content were something with heavy action, like a car race, the quality degredation would be seen more obviously?

             

            Anyone else?

            NEF

            • 3. Re: understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer
              Giorgio1957 Community Member

              I've tried to explain it in simple words.

              But yes, it is.

              As more the compression is high, your quality is poor

              As more compression is low, quality is better, but there is not an ideal bitrate or an ideal video compression.

              This depends by several things.

              I've burned a 3hours dvds in a single layer with appreciable results.

              Ciao

               

              Giorgio

              • 4. Re: understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer
                neil wilkes MVP

                nefl777 wrote:

                 

                Hi guys, I'm putting this in the Encore forum because my question concerns the 'burning' aspect, but it might possibly go into the Premier Pro forum (?). In any event, I have concerns about the quality differences of dual versus single layer.

                 

                I have a Dance Recital project that is 3 hrs long, has 1 top menu and 5 submenus for chapters. I use the Adobe link function to "send to Encore".  Here are the attributes:

                 

                HDV

                  HDV 1080i30 (60i)

                16:9 interlaced HD video

                29.97 fps

                frame: 1440h 1080v (1.3333)

                audio; 48000

                drop frame timecode numbering.

                 

                I created a dual layer disk, then I re-rendered and created a single layer. For each, I burn to an ISO file and then use "Mac" Disk Utility to burn them to the appropriate media.

                 

                When I play each disk on my dvd player, there doesn't seem to be anything huge jumping out at me for quality on the single layer.  I'm baffled there really isn't anything different.

                 

                Are there settings or steps I've missed?  thanks so much for your expertise!

                NEF

                Hi Nef.

                 

                You don't actually say what your output media type is - BluRay or DVD.

                It would also be very useful to know what render/transcode settings you have used, and the type of footage it is (Live action, animation - just "dance recital" means very little to me as am an old fart)

                • 5. Re: understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer
                  nefl777 Community Member

                  Hi Neil,

                  My output is a DVD not Bluray.

                   

                  A Dance Recital is a performance on a stage of people (mostly small girls and teens) dancing. There is a large auditorium, lighting, and music. The camera is always pointed in one direction - to the stage - and focuses on framing the dancers.  I'm using one camera.

                   

                  Does that qualify as "low excitement" ? I would think so.

                   

                  Where would I find out the  render/transcode settings in Encore?

                  • 6. Re: understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer
                    neil wilkes MVP

                    Hi Nef.

                     

                    Default Transcode settings will be under "File/Project Settings", and you will get the option to use the default transcode settings or else a customized transcode setting.

                    Advantages to using a DL disc are that you can get much better quality. Given your source material, personally speaking I would use LPCM Audio (uncompressed) and make a bit budget to work out your best options on the video transcoding.

                    Bit Budgeting is something that deserves a whole sticky thread all on it's own as it is a critical part of the process, and I will be happy to try & walk you through a couple of ways to manage this but the best way of all is to use a spreadsheet where all you need to do is enter the numbers & it will calculate your optimal settings for you.

                    Again - and likewise this is a personal thing - I would not use dynamic linking at all, but instead I would render out an interim file to SD from your original HDV source file as asking the Adobe Media Encoder to do both scaling from HDV to SD as well as encoding to MPEG-2 at the same time is kinda asking for not exactly trouble (it will do it) but you will in my opinion not get such good quality doing both at once.

                    There will be people who disagree, and no doubt strongly, but I have tried all ways & the way that I find works best is to render from Premiere first & then import that into Encore and work from there.

                    Are you on a Mac? I guess so, from your earlier comments, so personally I would go from Premiere to a 10-bit uncompressed quicktime file (the Aja codec is superb and free but requires installing the software from Aja so you might want to consider the animation codec, and check this first then import that into Encore & let it cope with an SD file rather than an anamorphic HDV file.....

                    • 7. Re: understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer
                      nefl777 Community Member

                      hi, I tried my best to locate the "transcode settings" so I could mess with them.

                       

                      when I open my project with encore (after it was sent with adobe link), I get this menu.

                       

                      encoreNewProj.jpg

                       

                      so I hit the button "default transcode settings" in order to change them. I get this menu:

                       

                      secondMenu.jpg

                       

                      note all the changeable pulldowns are greyed out.  So after I hit OK, I went into my project to change the transcode settings, and it's all greyed out. here is what it looks like:

                       

                      pulldown.jpg

                       

                      please advise how I can change these settings or what I'm doing wrong.

                      thanks guys!!

                       

                      NEF

                      • 8. Re: understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer
                        Stan Jones MVP

                        You need to select the "asset" not the "timeline" (even though with dynamic link the names look almost the same).

                         

                        Then you'll be able to select the transcode setting for one or more assets.

                        • 9. Re: understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer
                          nefl777 Community Member

                          thanks for the reply. this shows my inexperience I guess.

                           

                          still learning!

                           

                           

                          thank you!

                          • 10. Re: understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer
                            neil wilkes MVP

                            Watch your field orders too.

                            That default is set to LFF, and I wager that HDV asset is UFF (TFF).

                            Grab yourself a copy of the superb MediaInfo (donationware - that is a hint too) and check this.

                            Mixing up field orders will output domething that looks as jittery as all get gone.

                             

                            What I would still do is render out a correct resolution interim file from Premiere Pro - a 10-bit uncompressed file if you have the disc space, an 8-bit if you do not, and make sure your field order matches the source (with Premiere Pro CS6 this can be set in the export dialogue) and when you transcode in Encore, adjust the default preset for that asset to match

                            • 11. Re: understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer
                              nefl777 Community Member

                              Hello, I am still pursuing this new way of working... right now, I've exported my PPO project (DVD) to an MPEG2 file as you guys told me.

                               

                              Then, I imported it to Encore.  Now, I see the "transcode settings" box.  My big question:  which setting is going to give me the best DVD quality on my TV?  Here's the pulldown:

                               

                              Screen shot 2012-06-28 at 10.07.54 AM.png

                               

                              and, are there any other settings I need to change after this?

                               

                              thanks guys!!

                              • 13. Re: understanding quality diff; single layer vs dual layer
                                Jeff Bellune ACP

                                If your MPEG2 from Pr is DVD-legal, then the En Project panel should show it as Do Not Transcode.  The "quality" of your video is already baked into the MPEG2 file.  If your audio and video are together in the file, then it is critical that the Audio Transcode Settings for your project match the audio in your file.  Otherwise, En will re-transcode both the audio and the video and ruin the quality of your video from Pr.

                                 

                                Jeff