16 Replies Latest reply: Jul 3, 2012 9:03 AM by lasvideo RSS

    Lossless codec?

    Johnrh76 Community Member

      I'm a bit confused on how to begin with a lossless codec. I was recommended to use one so I can export peices of my project then re-import them without losing quality. But all that I know about codecs is that I download them, and they help me use certain file types.

       

      How do i specify to premeire that I would like to use a lossless codec once I have downloaded it?

       

      Also does anyone reccomend a certain type of lossless codec, and is there a danger of it messing up my other codecs? This is why I haven't touched it so far.

        • 1. Re: Lossless codec?
          Alan Craven Community Member

          I am using Lagarith, which is free and installs readily.  It is used with an AVI wrapper.  All I do when I want to export an intermadiate file with that codec is select avi with the correct frame dimensions in the Premiere export window. Then select the Video tab and choose Lagarith from the drop-down list of video codecs.

          • 2. Re: Lossless codec?
            J. Simon Community Member

            The same applies for the UT codec, which sometimes plays a little smoother in PP at HD resolutions.

            • 3. Re: Lossless codec?
              John T Smith MVP

              And, links to Lossless Codecs http://forums.adobe.com/thread/875797

              • 4. Re: Lossless codec?
                Johnrh76 Community Member

                Much appreciated! So I guess I don't have to worry about it overriding other codecs?

                • 5. Re: Lossless codec?
                  SAFEHARBOR11 Community Member

                  You can install many codecs and they should all coexist just fine, just like installing extra fonts for instance.

                   

                  I have also used Lagarith for part of a certain workflow, but the files are very large. If starting with footage that is already highly compressed (most camera formats today), something like Lagarith might be overkill, creating unnecessarily large files. Maybe try the Matrox 4:2:2 codec that produces great HD files at 100-300mb per second (user adjustable).

                   

                  Download here -

                  http://www.matrox.com/video/en/support/windows/vfw_software_codecs/downloads/softwares/ver sion1.0/build33/

                   

                  Thanks

                   

                  Jeff Pulera

                  Safe Harbor Computers

                  • 6. Re: Lossless codec?
                    the_wine_snob Community Member

                    John,

                     

                    I think that you have received the answer to your question about Lossless CODEC's, but this article, CODEC's a Primer, might be useful.

                     

                    Good luck,

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Lossless codec?
                      Johnrh76 Community Member

                      Thanks everyone!

                      • 8. Re: Lossless codec?
                        J. Simon Community Member

                        If starting with footage that is already highly compressed (most camera formats today), something like Lagarith might be overkill

                         

                        I disagree on the basis that starting out with footage that is already highly compressed, you don't want to add any further compression (degradation) until it is absolutely necessary for final delivery.  That makes lossless intermediates even more important for highly compressed source footage.

                        • 9. Re: Lossless codec?
                          the_wine_snob Community Member

                          Jeff,

                           

                          If starting with footage that is already highly compressed (most camera formats today), something like Lagarith might be overkill, creating unnecessarily large files.

                          I agree with Jim Simon. When one already has a heavily-compressed file, the LAST thing that they would want is more compression. That is the ideal time to use lossless, regardless of file size.

                           

                          As an example from a slightly different dicipline, if I was handed a JPEG Still Image, the last thing that I wanted to use as an intermediate was another JPEG. It was TIFF, or more often, PSD.

                           

                          Why take heavily-compressed material, and then apply ANY lossey compression to that? You have already lost part of the collected data, so why lose more? That is a prime time to NOT compress with a lossey CODEC again.

                           

                          I disagree here.

                           

                          Hunt

                          • 10. Re: Lossless codec?
                            SAFEHARBOR11 Community Member

                            None of us even knows what the original poster is doing - if he's playing with home movies, then who's going to know the difference? We all have different backgrounds here. If you are used to doing "broadcast work", then of course the lossless/uncompressed workflow will have its appeal and I understand the thought process. For the rest of us, we may not even have a hard drive up to the task of smoothly playing back high data rate footage. Unless truly necessary, why create humongous files and slow down the entire workflow? It can take a critical eye to discern the difference and for many applications, is just not that big of a deal

                             

                             

                            Jeff

                            • 11. Re: Lossless codec?
                              lasvideo Community Member

                              I agree Jeff. That why all of the pro editors I know are all standardizing to DNxHD, Avids codec. Many of us are abandoning Apples Prores for obvious reasons. There are only a few circustances where I would need or consider using a lossless codec.

                              • 12. Re: Lossless codec?
                                J. Simon Community Member

                                Unless truly necessary, why create humongous files and slow down the entire workflow?

                                 

                                For the very reason you mentioned, we may not always know the specific scenario.  Without knowing the details, It's probably best to simply assume that the poster is a professional and will be delivering to a client.  If we know otherwise, then other recommendations might make more sense.  But until we know otherwise...

                                • 13. Re: Lossless codec?
                                  Alan Craven Community Member

                                  lasvideo,

                                   

                                  Sorry, I am not clear on what you are saying here - are you suggesting that the DNxHD codecs are suitable to use as a "lossless" codec?

                                   

                                  I have tried them, and subjectively they give good results when used for intermediate files, plus the file sizes are smaller than I get with Lagarith.

                                  • 14. Re: Lossless codec?
                                    lasvideo Community Member

                                    DnxHD is not a lossless codec. But its its widely used by the professional community for transcoding on the Avid system as well as mastering. Because size and quality are both issues of importance, it addresses both in a manner that satifys that communiities needs. I know of no editors that use Lagarith except folks here at the forum.

                                     

                                    If for some reason lossless is really what you need, then DNxHD probably is not what you are looking for.

                                    • 15. Re: Lossless codec?
                                      Alan Craven Community Member

                                      lasvideo,

                                       

                                      Many thanks for clarifying!  You have told me what I wanted to hear - I shall abandon Lagarith in favour of DNxHD for intermediate files.  I am not a video professional, but like many, I do want to achieve the highest standards that I can. Lossless is really OTT, though, for me.

                                      • 16. Re: Lossless codec?
                                        lasvideo Community Member

                                        If ever for specific reasons you DO need lossless, I believe the Animation codec or a PNG sequencne are good choices. I think you will be happy with using DNxHD for most situations. Good luck.