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Audio Out of Sync - Why and How to Correct

Community Beginner ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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I nested two 90 minute clips from 2 separate cameras which were both shot in AVCHD. I am using Premiere CS 5.5 . As a former FCP editor, whenever audio went out of sync, a message in FCP came up immediately and told you the audio was out of sync and it was an easy fix. How come Premiere is minus such an important feature?

I shoot stage productions where there may be music but no dialogue so chercking sync becomes rather difficult. After finishing a 2 hour video, I found the audio was out of sync in the nested sequences. Is there any way to auto resync the audio automatically?

Seems to me that Premiere Pro is a sub Pro App if simple audio sync is so hard to maintain in nested sequences. Makes nesting a sequence a waste of time if you have to redo the edit as a reslut of audio out of sync.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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Let me add this, if audio can be moved out of sync in Premiere Pro so easily without any notification, warning and abillity to move it back into sync easily as soon as it happen or provide a quick fix after the video has been editied using the original video clip to match the timecode for both video and audio in the nested Sequence  then Premiere Pro should be a free app. An app that can be freely shared, as it is not  professional editing software no matter how many other things it can do. Audio sync is at the very basics of video editing and Premiere Pro functions as though this is about as important as whether you used an upper case or lower case letter in part of a title. The whole point to editing is video and audio. If I wanted silent video then no problem. But that want out back in the 1920's. I think Adobe misleads the consumer.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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If there is no response to this, then I will assume this is an Adobe "dirty little secret". A problem everyone runs into but Adobe is silent  about.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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>problem everyone runs into

I edit AVCHD and do not have that problem

Do be aware (in case you are not... ignore if you are) that the "approved" way to get AVCHD from camera to hard drive is to copy the entire folder, not just the files

Read http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1015001?tstart=0 for more information

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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Thanks John, but I know that you have to copy the entire file folders out not the individual AVCHD files. I read up on editng AVCHD files before tackling Premiere. So whether I copy the files from my Panasonic AC130 or my Canon cam, the entire folder system gets copied not files. So far, unless someone can specify the fix or how to resync audio in a nested sequence, I have gone back to editng the FCP way. Sync the two cams based on video (can't use audio in Premiere as the audio channel graphic waveform is not as well defined as in FCP - another Adobe minus) in the timeline and then reduce the opacity of Video track 2 to 45% and then use the Razor Tool to cut the clips you need. Of course the audio channels shouuld be locked to avoid cutting the audio up as well.

You know John, maybe after I finish editing my projects, I should compile all my work arounds and list the Premiere problems and how to deal with them. Good thing you Adobe guys have us FCP editors here not to clean up the Adobe mess. Imagine how worse things would have gotten here in Premiere Amateur Editing software if the Apple people didn't chase the money and dump FCP for better iPhones and iPads, etc to boost revenue.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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>you Adobe guys

Not me... I'm just another user trying to help on this user to user forum... Adobe employees are identified with either Employee or Staff next to their name... where you and I have the word Member

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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Thanks John. All I meant was that the Adobe users are lucky to have FCP editors here to help out. Since I can compare both apps, Adobe is going to have to do a hard sell to convince me they have a better project. Maybe I should edit AVCHD in Premiere and then encode to mpeg2 and import back to DVD Studio Pro.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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Well Adobe does have the better "project" ( product) bcause your beloved FCP is no longer a  product.

Nothing stopping you continuing to use your original FCP7 though!

As regards your issue (and assumeably you are on a Mac)...why not see if other Mac users confirm "Adobes dirty little secret" before you go on the "fcp is perfect why cant PPRO also be so" rant.

In the interest of more information...what have you done about trouble shooting this your self?

Have you tried a sequence without nesting anything?

Is it OOS in the sequence and the export?

BTW: Generally an OOS indicator comes up when you unlink audio / video.  

In your edit are you using the linked audio or an external recorded piece?  (You mabe experiencing device drift)

For the record - on a PC with AVCHD...I do not experience your issue.

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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Well I am on Win 7 64 bit. Apple will probably trash their Workstations soon as well. So the audio was from the AVCHD file same as the video. Very simple setup. I placed my cam #1 file with video and audio on the timeline then found a sync point - photo flash frame from camera one and matched it to cam #2. Placed cam # 2 video and audio on Video 2 and Audio 2.  Then selected the video 1 and 2 and nested them. Used Multicam Monitor. First 1/3 of edit was fine. After that the video was out of sync.

Seems pretty straight forward. Would have been even more so if Premiere warned me that a specific action put the audio out of sync. Then gave me a way to resync the nested files. Didn't find the sync issue out until I played the DVD back after authoring in Encore. I do have a quick fix for resetting Encore files that I used in DVD Studio Pro and works in Encore as well.

The purpose of video editng is to edit a video and get paid for the work, not trouble shoot the software. If I wanted to do that I would have gotten a degree in software engineering. If I have to trouble shoot the software then some software engineer goofed and created a bug or an issue that interferes with video editing. Listen

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LEGEND ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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Prior to working in Multicam mode did you check to see if the audio video was in synch?

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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The audio and video was in sync, that is why the first 1/3 of the edit was fine. It was nesting that caused the sync issue.

Listen shooternz, I expect video editing software to work correctly 100% of the time. I am not a software engineer and should not have to trouble shoot the app. If you bought a TV set would you expect it to work 100% of the time? You wouldn't try to open the set and fix it. I paid for video editing software and I expect it to work correctly 100% of the time.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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Ignoring your condescending "listen shooternz"  and the lecturing analogy...but trying to help you at the same time.

Somehow you have established that it goes out of synch in the nest

You did not say if the original time lines  were fine past 1/3 before you nested them. (ie did you check near the end)

How have you eliminated Multicam (and maybe the way you use it) from the OOS issue?

If you create and then playback  either edit as a nest ( before multicam) ..do both streams maintain synch?

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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Sorry not trying to annoy you shooternz, Yes the original timeline is fine up to about 1/3 into the video. Somehow after that point the audio is out of sync. Now I have redited from the nested sequence that was in sync on using the following method. I lay in cam #1 (video & audio) into video 1 in the Sequence. Then I find a sync point in cam #2 and reference it to the same point in cam #1. I then place cam #2 in video and audio track 2. I lower the opacity in video 2 to 48% and proceed to edit using the razor tool and placing video from cam#2 onto video 1 in the sequence. Audio channels are locked so they don't get cut up. Everything is in sync. So yes to your laast question.

BTW why would the OS (WIN 7) have issues with Multicam? If Adobe  products have issues with the OS then they shouldn't be selling them and advertising them as Pro apps.

My complaint is that Premiere does not have a safe guard to alert you when audio goes out of sync. I wasted a few hours editing to recoup the out of sync video.

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LEGEND ,
Jun 30, 2012 Jun 30, 2012

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My complaint is that Premiere does not have a safe guard to alert you when audio goes out of sync.

Actually, it does.  You'll see a +/- time indicator on both the audio and video portion of clips that are out of sync.

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 01, 2012 Jul 01, 2012

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Jim I checked the Sequence Timeline and there is no +/- indicating the audio is out of sync. Yet it is out of sync - I checked it against the original footage from the cams. Where there is a speech you can definitly tell it is out of sync. In FCP this is a no brainer but not as clear cut in Adobe.

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Engaged ,
Jul 29, 2013 Jul 29, 2013

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regarding Premiere signalling with the +/-  It is my observation that this only appears when the user drags either the audio ir video out of alignment.  It doesn't work if the audio and video were out of sync when captured.  I have input video fram camtasia and occasionally the audo and video go out of sync on a longer clip.  There is no way for Premiere to know these are out of sync.  The only way I've found to resolve is to cut the clip and manually nudge one of the clips back and forth until it looks correct.

You said the sequence properties and the video properties align.  Is this on both the sequence you laid out an cut the captured video, and the sequence you placed the nested sequence on?

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 30, 2013 Jul 30, 2013

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True, if the audio and video are out of sync on import or imported separately then it would be out of sync. The problem is, as described above, when Premiere allows them to go out of sync whitout any warning. This includes using multi camera editing. If more then one person has experienced this problem in various forms, then Adobe should respond. I am thinking Sony Vegas or some other system might have been better editing solution to FCP.

BTW with Steve Jobs gone, Apple will float about - but Adobe must have the vision Jobs did to move its product to the top of the editing systems.

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Adobe Employee ,
Jul 30, 2013 Jul 30, 2013

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Hi martinv,

For all users experiencing trouble, it is recommended that you post all that is recommended in this article: FAQ: What information should I provide when asking a question on this forum?

Thanks,

Kevin

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 30, 2013 Jul 30, 2013

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Hi Kevin,

I understand the need for details to ascertain the problem and solution. My frustration with Adobe Help is its' organization. The amount of time needed to research the solution detracts from the editing workflow which is usually time sensitive. By comparison FCP Help was usually short and to the point. Adobe Help is like taking a college course and video editors do not have the time for this. The responsibility lies with Adobe tech Support to streamline the information for quick solutions not a course oriented page upon page of indformation, much of which is not related to the specific problem being researched.

In addition, I found at least one video on the Adobe website which was incorrectly placed as a solution to the stated problem. I was contacted by Adobe and it was admitted that this video was not related to the issue at hand. 

I like Premiere since Apple destroyed FCP. However, Adobe Help needs to be streamlined and easier to research and locate solutions to specific problems not given whole chapters to pour through. In addition, there seems to be issues with Premiere that are not admitted to by Adobe. Premiere has the potential to replace FCP but that requires a more focused committment on Adobe's part (at least in my opinion).

Don't get me wrong, as I said I like Adobe but I am use to the high bar that Apple places in designing and implementing their earlier products.

  • What version of Premiere Pro? Include the minor version number (e.g., Premiere Pro CS5.5 with the 5.5.2 update). CS 5.5
  • Have you installed the recent updates? (If not, you should. They fix a lot of problems.)  - Yes did not solve the problem.
  • What operating system? This should include specific minor version numbers, like "Mac OSX v10.6.8"---not just "Mac". Win 7 64 bit
  • What kind(s) of source footage? When telling about your source footage, tell us about the codecs, not just the container types. For example, "H.264 in a .mov container", not just "QuickTime". AVCHD - whole folder was imported and did not have aporblem before using Multicam edit
  • If you are getting error message(s), what is the full text of the error message(s)? No error message
  • What were you doing when the problem occurred? Multi Cam editing
  • Has this ever worked before?
  • What other software are you running? none
  • Do you have any third-party effects or codecs installed? Nope
  • Tell us about your computer hardware. Be especially certain to tell us about third-party I/O hardware (e.g., AJA, Matrox, Blackmagic, MOTU).
  • Are you using Mercury Playback Engine GPU Acceleration? Yes
  • Does the problem only happen with your final output, with previews, or both? Both

Screenshots and sample movies are often very useful in showing exactly what you're seeing, and can thus make getting an answer faster and easier.

Also, please do everyone a favor and check the Premiere Pro FAQ list and also do a quick Premiere Pro Community Help search to see if your question has been addressed already.

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Adobe Employee ,
Jul 30, 2013 Jul 30, 2013

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Hi martin,

martinv2012 wrote:

Hi Kevin,

I understand the need for details to ascertain the problem and solution.

Yes, we cannot see your setup through the computer so you have to be really descriptive. That is helpful for all and why we have a specific FAQ for that.

martinv2012 wrote:

My frustration with Adobe Help is its organization.

If you would like to make a separate thread and complain about Help documentation, feel free. Let's try and get this first problem solved here, though, OK?

martinv2012 wrote:

In addition, there seems to be issues with Premiere that are not admitted to by Adobe. Premiere has the potential to replace FCP but that requires a more focused committment on Adobe's part (at least in my opinion).

If you would like to make a separate thread with complaints about other issues related to Premiere Pro, you can do that too.

martinv2012 wrote:

  • What version of Premiere Pro? Include the minor version number (e.g., Premiere Pro CS5.5 with the 5.5.2 update). CS 5.5
  • Have you installed the recent updates? (If not, you should. They fix a lot of problems.)  - Yes did not solve the problem.

So you are running Premiere Pro CS5.5 (5.5.2) on Win7 then. Thanks.

martinv2012 wrote:

  • What kind(s) of source footage? When telling about your source footage, tell us about the codecs, not just the container types. For example, "H.264 in a .mov container", not just "QuickTime".

AVCHD - whole folder was imported and did not have aporblem before using Multicam edit.

OK.

martinv2012 wrote:

  • If you are getting error message(s), what is the full text of the error message(s)?

No error message

OK, no error messages.

martinv2012 wrote:

  • What were you doing when the problem occurred?

Multi Cam editing

You were editing the multi-cam sequence, as you normally would.

Q: Has this ever worked before?

martinv2012 wrote:

  • What other software are you running?

none

No other software was running as you edit. Got it.

martinv2012 wrote:

  • Do you have any third-party effects or codecs installed?
  • Tell us about your computer hardware. Be especially certain to tell us about third-party I/O hardware (e.g., AJA, Matrox, Blackmagic, MOTU).

No third party plug-ins, codecs, or hardware drivers are installed in your system. OK.

martinv2012 wrote:

Yes

OK.

Q: What happens if you edit with the Mercury Playback Engine {Hardware) switched off? The same?

martinv2012 wrote:

  • Does the problem only happen with your final output, with previews, or both? Both

OK, thanks.

Q: What kind of hard drive or RAID system are you using to play back your video files?

Do you have a dropbox or something similar to upload files to? That way, we can take a look at them and see where the problem lies.

Also, if you have time it would be appreciated if you could fill out a bug report: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

Thanks,

Kevin

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Explorer ,
Jul 31, 2013 Jul 31, 2013

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Hi Martin

I also had intermittent problems with audio sync mainly with MPEG4/AVI files.

I researched the issue and went through the optimisation suggested by Adobe (see point 36 in this thread).  After making several changes to my system including having a an SSD as boot with ONLY Adobe software and Windows 7 64-bit, RAID with 10K drives, improved memory and two other SSD drives as Cache and Scratch, made a world of difference.

I am by no means an expert on this subject but have built several systems in the past for general use and found through research that having a dedicated system for video editing although not practical for everyone, is well worthwhile as you will reap the rewards in productivity gains. 

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New Here ,
Jul 31, 2013 Jul 31, 2013

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Hi Guys,

All this feedback is wonderful. As this is the first time I have really used this forum.

It happens to me even when not in Multicam. One gentlemen suggested if you even so much as touch the keyboard as it is loading files it can go out of sync. My files are HDV MPEG, AVI and MOV. They run fine in all other software on the system and are only out of sync in premier CS6..I will look at downloading the 03 patch but cannot afford to in case it fixes it and all the items I have realigned by hand go back to sync. To close to going to air.

Does 03 contain a fix for it?

I have Master Collection on C

Cache on D

Projects on E

A MOTHER OF A VIDEO EDITNG CARD.

3.7ghz Intel P

16 GB Memory

64 bit os

7.2 windows

30 TB storage in total. Yes, a dedicated editing unit.

Only third party I use is Magic Bullet.

It has been suggested I clear my cache files and relink so I cleared .PEK, .cfa for sound and .XMP files on advise and relinked. No joy. I moved and renamed directories to force relink still not joy. But it does not show the green/red out of sync markers anywhere. When I hand resync, then the out of alignment numbers come up. I find this increasingly odd.

Ta

T

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Explorer ,
Aug 01, 2013 Aug 01, 2013

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THe forum is great.  Many very knowledgeable people on here which is great for VE novices like me. You generally get a response within hours and if your question isn't answered directly, there are usually suggestion/links on where to go for further help.

btw, what is your editing card, just curious lol.

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Explorer ,
Aug 01, 2013 Aug 01, 2013

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GraphiteGal

If you have a legal PP CS6 program, the update to 6.0.3 is free. 

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Explorer ,
Aug 01, 2013 Aug 01, 2013

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I Subscribe to Cloud version nickdbomb, not sure why you think otherwise, unless you intimated it from "video editing novice" = pirate version.  But yeah since last July and just renewed membership for another 12 months and I am quite happy to pay for what I consider to be a great combination of photo/video/sound and development software.

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