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NewBlueFX Titler Pro?

Explorer ,
Jan 18, 2012 Jan 18, 2012

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I'm wondering if anyone here has had a positive experience with this plugin that has been out for a couple months now.  I've been working with it on a trial basis for a few days now. For the occasional quick, text-heavy projects this has the potential to add some interesting animations with the provided transitions & templates and decent customization options. It is claimed to be GPU accelerated, but drags my system down to an absolute dead crawl, even with 24 gigs RAM, 8 cores and nVidia Quadro CUDA to play with.

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Advocate ,
Jan 18, 2012 Jan 18, 2012

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All the New Blue transitions I have tried out also rendered as slow as mud. I didnt care for their rather simplistic controls and interface. I prefer After Effects for animating and doing cool things with text. And its free if you buy the Production Bundle.

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 19, 2012 Jan 19, 2012

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Hi, my name is Marcus and I work for NewBlue. I apologize that Titler Pro is working slowly for you. Can you please give me some more details about the issue? Is Titler itself running slowly when you are creating and editing your text? Or is it taking a long time to render the clips after you create them?

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LEGEND ,
Jan 19, 2012 Jan 19, 2012

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Marcus,

Thank you for responding - nice touch!

Hope that the OP (or others) can give you some info to work with.

Your reply in this thread is appreciated and good luck,

Hunt

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LEGEND ,
Jan 19, 2012 Jan 19, 2012

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http://www.kolozzeum.com/forum/images/smilies/kissass.gif

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LEGEND ,
Jan 19, 2012 Jan 19, 2012

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LOL!

Hey, one never knows when they might seek support...

Besides, it IS nice to see 3rd party support offered in the Adobe forums.

Hunt

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Explorer ,
Jan 20, 2012 Jan 20, 2012

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OP gone yesterday, here now.   Marcus, maybe you are the person I was doing the back & forth with this week via NBF customer support. By the way, impressively quick replies there. 

My disappointments  with Titler Pro are due primarily to the need to be constantly rendering & re-rendering a timeline segment containing a title once any changes are made. Otherwise playback is limited to a stuttering series of stills, anywhere from 2 or 3 per second to one every few seconds, while audio plays smoothly. That makes it  time consuming and frustrating when dealing with layered comps or trying to precisely time to audio cues. A client's patience would be even less than mine. Unlike lasvideo, I've been very happy with the performance of the other NBF effects and transitions plugins I have - even being able to stack 4 effects on a full HD clip that plays in realtime. The new text animations preview smoothly in the Titler Pro window, but the "sync cursor to host timeline" option doesn't seem to work, and being able to view the timeline's current video image behind the text in your window would be a welcome addition. Also on the wish list would be a much more detailed help file, and true kerning is pretty much a necessity that is missing.

So I guess the problem is I was expecting much more realtime performance from your Titler on a Premiere timeline, especially considering the "GPU acceleration."  Expecting too much too soon? I asked this forum to see if it might be a quirk with my system or else a common experience with other Premiere users.

Another thing I noticed is that all of my  titles seem to be limited to a maximum of 8 seconds. Is that really true? 

- David

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 20, 2012 Jan 20, 2012

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BVX3001 wrote:

OP gone yesterday, here now.   Marcus, maybe you are the person I was doing the back & forth with this week via NBF customer support. By the way, impressively quick replies there. 

My disappointments  with Titler Pro are due primarily to the need to be constantly rendering & re-rendering a timeline segment containing a title once any changes are made. Otherwise playback is limited to a stuttering series of stills, anywhere from 2 or 3 per second to one every few seconds, while audio plays smoothly. That makes it  time consuming and frustrating when dealing with layered comps or trying to precisely time to audio cues. A client's patience would be even less than mine. Unlike lasvideo, I've been very happy with the performance of the other NBF effects and transitions plugins I have - even being able to stack 4 effects on a full HD clip that plays in realtime. The new text animations preview smoothly in the Titler Pro window, but the "sync cursor to host timeline" option doesn't seem to work, and being able to view the timeline's current video image behind the text in your window would be a welcome addition. Also on the wish list would be a much more detailed help file, and true kerning is pretty much a necessity that is missing.

So I guess the problem is I was expecting much more realtime performance from your Titler on a Premiere timeline, especially considering the "GPU acceleration."  Expecting too much too soon? I asked this forum to see if it might be a quirk with my system or else a common experience with other Premiere users.

Another thing I noticed is that all of my  titles seem to be limited to a maximum of 8 seconds. Is that really true? 

- David

Have you tried lowering your Premiere Playback Resolution? Not ideal, I know, but setting it to 1/4 or even 1/2 will allow Titler to render the title faster and you might be able to get real-time preview playback.

You actually _should_ be seeing the video on your timeline as a background in Titler. Now, you do of course have to have the Titler clip on your timeline above another video clip. When you double-click on the Titler clip on the timeline to edit it, your video should be shown as the background image in the Titler editing window.

That being said, we did discover an error with this - if you render your Titler clip, when you double-click it to edit it, sometimes the background is just black. Closing and re-opening the Titler interface seems to correct that. If you still can't see the background video, please let me know and I'll look into it.

As for duration, Titler does default to 8 seconds, but you can increase that. In the upper right-hand corner of the Titler interface is a Duration field that is editable. Just type in the duration that you want and press enter. Now, you will need to save and re-open your Premiere project to get the new duration to register (annoying, I know).

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Explorer ,
Jan 20, 2012 Jan 20, 2012

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Marcus,

Yes I tried the reduced resolution which had no noticable effect. 

No I still don't see a video background. Only new titles even allow the choice of white, black or gray backgounds for text composition.

Saving and re-opening an entire Premiere project to extend the length of a single title graphic?  Really??!

I tried fiddling with the lengths, lost one title altogether,  then managed to extend one to :18 in the TP window. But when on the timeline the title went black at :12  anyway.

 

I totally understand the challenges of building a product like this, especially for multiple host applications, and there is a lot to like and seemingly a lot of potential.  But considering Premiere's existing Titler, which does so many more things well except animation, and the power of After Effects which presumably most Premiere users own if not know well enough yet, NBFx has a lot more work ahead. Thanks for your input here now and hopefully into the future.

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 23, 2012 Jan 23, 2012

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BVX3001 wrote:

Saving and re-opening an entire Premiere project to extend the length of a single title graphic?  Really??!

A little clarification on this: when you first create your Title in the project bin, you can enter a longer duration without having to save and reopen your Premiere project. So you could, for example, set your Titler clip duration to 1 minute when you first create it, then just cut in the portion that you need. I could create a 1 minute Titler clip that only uses the first 20 seconds, and just use those 20 seconds on my Premiere timeline. Then, if I need to make it longer, I already have 40 extra seconds I can extend it to.

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Explorer ,
Jan 19, 2012 Jan 19, 2012

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BVX3001 wrote:

I'm wondering if anyone here has had a positive experience with this plugin...

for me:

- Vegas Pro 11 64bit seems to like it

- Premiere Pro CS 5.5 just sits there spinning after New Item > NewBlue Titler Pro

It is claimed to be GPU accelerated, but drags my system down to an absolute dead crawl, even with 24 gigs RAM, 8 cores and nVidia Quadro CUDA to play with.

This may explain why my 8GB RAM on 4 Cores w/No CUDA can't deal with it.

Vegas seems to be OK with it but I'd like for it to also play nice with Premiere.

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 19, 2012 Jan 19, 2012

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- Premiere Pro CS 5.5 just sits there spinning after New Item > NewBlue Titler Pro

Were you using our retail version of Titler Pro in Premiere (not the one that comes bundled with Vegas Pro 11)? If so, do  you remember when you downloaded it?

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Explorer ,
Jan 19, 2012 Jan 19, 2012

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A few of us shooters/editors were talking about/comparing creating text with BCC Extruded Text, Zaxwerks Pro Animator, NBPro Titler, Boris RED, Photoshop, DJ Juicer, & Bluff Titler.

After our conversation, I downloaded the trial today from here:

http://www.newbluefx.com/shop/videofx/effects/titler-pro.html

___________________

update:

uninstalled the version specifically for Vegas.

(seemed redundant to have one installed for a specific NLE when there's a version for an OS)

ran Windows Update installing, restarting, installing, restarting...

changed 3 Monitors hardware placements on 2 Vid Cards.

changed Primary Monitor via Control Panel.

New Item > NBPT and it's loading!

(slow as thick molasses to react when I change parameters, but working.)

I do not see this as quick and definitely would not use it on any Text Heavy projects as OP suggested.

Mac version coming soon is also exciting... unless it winds up being only for iFCP.


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Advocate ,
Jan 19, 2012 Jan 19, 2012

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I cant tell you, hands down, that Proanimtor for text or logos (2D or 3D) is the best. You can build in the stand alone for speed , then import into the AE plugin. Or do it all in AE with AEs lights and camera. Worth every penny.

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 20, 2012 Jan 20, 2012

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update:

New Item > NBPT and it's loading!

(slow as thick molasses to react when I change parameters, but working.)

I do not see this as quick and definitely would not use it on any Text Heavy projects as OP suggested.

Glad to hear that you were able to get it working after all. If you don't mind me asking, how much text and how many effects were you testing with?

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Explorer ,
Jan 20, 2012 Jan 20, 2012

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NewBlueMJ wrote:


Glad to hear that you were able to get it working after all. If you don't mind me asking, how much text and how many effects were you testing with?

Only NewBlue Titler Pro on the timeline. Generating at Sequence Specs. No Effects.

NBTP definitely looks promising. Now that it's running I'll have to learn it so I can customize specifically for projects and so my videos don't look like everyone else's with the Standard Template look/colors/feel.

I wasn't aware that you could run it Stand Alone as mentioned above.

I thought it was a Plugin. The only Stand Alone option I know of is 'TestHost.exe'.

Maybe this is the cure-all for me as well as the OP.

- What's your workflow for running it Stand Alone?

- Where are the Safe Areas or Guides in NBTP?

_______________

To answer the OP:

- Although my initial experience was dissapointing, my recent experience has me hopeful.

BVX3001 - Does your performance improve when you use it Stand Alone?

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 20, 2012 Jan 20, 2012

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Evolution wrote:

I wasn't aware that you could run it Stand Alone as mentioned above.

I thought it was a Plugin. The only Stand Alone option I know of is 'TestHost.exe'.

I think he might have been referring to a standalone version of "ProAnimator," not Titler Pro.

Yes, right now Titler Pro isn't really designed to run in standalone mode; the Test Host is really there more as a diagnostic tool. At the moment, it can't create / export video files.

However, you could try it out, and if the Test Host works faster for you, use that to design your titles, save them as a Titler project file (*.nbtitle), then create a Titler clip inside Premiere and use the File -> Open command in Titler to open your already created project.

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Explorer ,
Jan 20, 2012 Jan 20, 2012

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NewBlueMJ wrote:

... if the Test Host works faster for you, use that to design your titles, save them as a Titler project file (*.nbtitle), then create a Titler clip inside Premiere and use the File -> Open command in Titler to open your already created project.

Did exactly that for the project I'm working on now where the Beginnings and Ending are the same on every piece except I need to change out the Picture, Logo, & Text.

- Where are the Safe Areas or Guides in NBTP?

- Where are the Alignment Tools?

- Where is the Replace Asset option?

Are these elementary things a deliberate omission or am I just not seeing them?

(should I start a new thread?)

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 20, 2012 Jan 20, 2012

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Evolution wrote:

- Where are the Safe Areas or Guides in NBTP?

- Where are the Alignment Tools?

- Where is the Replace Asset option?

I apologize, at the moment we do not have Safe Area markers / Guides in Titler Pro. This has been one of our biggest requests and we fully plan to add them in an upcoming update.

Alignment tools - what kind of tools are you needing? Do you want to align text in a paragraph? Align different elements to each other? Something else?

Replace asset - Are you looking to change an imported image? That is certainly doable. Click on the image element on the Titler timeline (it will probably be labeled as "Shape.") Go to the Style tab, and under 3D Face click the "Texture" radio button. Then click on the square to the right of that, and a file dialog will open where you can select a different image.

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Explorer ,
Jan 20, 2012 Jan 20, 2012

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NewBlueMJ wrote:


I apologize, at the moment we do not have Safe Area markers / Guides in Titler Pro. This has been one of our biggest requests and we fully plan to add them in an upcoming update.

Alignment tools - what kind of tools are you needing? Do you want to align text in a paragraph? Align different elements to each other? Something else?

Replace asset - Are you looking to change an imported image? That is certainly doable. Click on the image element on the Titler timeline (it will probably be labeled as "Shape.") Go to the Style tab, and under 3D Face click the "Texture" radio button. Then click on the square to the right of that, and a file dialog will open where you can select a different image.

Title/Action Safe Areas

- How else are we gonna know if we're legal?

  especially if we're animating text & other elements.

Alignment Tools

- Align relative to safe areas

- Align Center, Top, Bottom, etc of selected media

  currently you have to keep going back and forth to Position X, Y, Z and copying

Replace Asset

- Applying a new image as a Texture does not maintain correct Aspect Ratio if they are different.

GUI

- Ability to view the timeline's current frame in NBTP would be awesome!

- Ability to rename Layers or inherit names from files.

- Library > Get More...

   Waste of space & misleading if there's nothing more to get

  

Stand Alone

- Double-click to open a saved .nbtitle in NBTP

  I have to open NBTP then go File > Open

NBTP

- Speed the dang thang up!

  Creative ideas are gone by the time NBTP catches up to your thoughts & actions.

_______________

Being able to Master one Title Tool that is used on all NLE's would definitely be appreciated.

After workin in it slowly all day today it slightly reminds me of Boris RED, After Effects, & Motion. This could be awesome if it matures quickly.

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 20, 2012 Jan 20, 2012

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Evolution wrote:

Title/Action Safe Areas

- How else are we gonna know if we're legal?

  especially if we're animating text & other elements.

Alignment Tools

- Align relative to safe areas

- Align Center, Top, Bottom, etc of selected media

  currently you have to keep going back and forth to Position X, Y, Z and copying

Replace Asset

- Applying a new image as a Texture does not maintain correct Aspect Ratio if they are different.

GUI

- Ability to view the timeline's current frame in NBTP would be awesome!

- Ability to rename Layers or inherit names from files.

- Library > Get More...

   Waste of space & misleading if there's nothing more to get

  

Stand Alone

- Double-click to open a saved .nbtitle in NBTP

  I have to open NBTP then go File > Open

NBTP

- Speed the dang thang up!

  Creative ideas are gone by the time NBTP catches up to your thoughts & actions.

_______________

Being able to Master one Title Tool that is used on all NLE's would definitely be appreciated.

After workin in it slowly all day today it slightly reminds me of Boris RED, After Effects, & Motion. This could be awesome if it matures quickly.

We really do appreciate the feedback. I know there are a number of things that are missing / don't use an expected workflow compared to other products, but we are working dilligently to get these concerns addressed. We take all of your comments seriously and are working to make this the best product that we can.

Titler Pro is way beyond any product that we've ever produced before, and there's certainly been a steep learning curve. We really do appreciate everyone's patience as we get the kinks worked out.

P.S.: You actually _can_ rename the layers on the Style tab. Just click on the name and type in whatever you want.

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Explorer ,
Jan 20, 2012 Jan 20, 2012

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NewBlueMJ wrote:

P.S.: You actually _can_ rename the layers on the Style tab. Just click on the name and type in whatever you want.

Why would I want/need to change the Name there?

I would want the Name Change to be reflected in my Timeline where I can quickly see what layer is what.

NewBlueMJ wrote:

You actually _should_ be seeing the video on your timeline as a background in Titler

I actually do.

This along with the Title Safe & Alignment Tools are a neccesity for accurate placement.

__________________

After watching a NBTP video on youtube, I notice that I do not see my other NewBlue FX & Transitions present as in the video, which I think takes care of my concern above where I state:

- Library > Get More...

   Waste of space & misleading if there's nothing more to get

Well, I've got all the FX & Transitions. Although Premiere & Vegas see them, NBTP does not.

I'll start reinstalling them and see what happens.

The Screen Capture of him using NBTP in the video show NBTP as being a lot smoother and more responsive by far than I've ever experienced on my system... unless all of the lag was edited out.

__________________

- NBTP seems to be more thorough in Vegas where it's quick/easy to adjust the length of the NBTP event by making it as long as you want on the timeline, then in the NBTP GUI hit the button to 'Make Title Same Length as Timeline Event'.

- You can scrub the Vegas timeline with NBTP open as well which helps me when I need to reference something in the project while building a Title/Animation.

- Restarting an NLE to update the length of a title is ridiculous. Seems like an 'update' button would suffice to check/reset whatever needs to be checked/reset.

- I like being able to create a Title/Animation using NBTP in Vegas or Premiere, and presumably all other supporting hosts, and have the ability to open, edit, and use that same Animation in other NLEs or exchange with other editors.

__________________

It's crazy that I've really only used it for a few hours today yet find it lacking in some of the simplest and most elemental things of editing. Kind of reminds me of the shortcomings & professional death of FCP with FCPx, iFCP, iMoviePro, or whatever it's called. I would have loved to have been on the NewBlue beta test & suggestions team.

- What's the preferred place/method of conveying my thoughts, findings, & suggestions for NBTP?

   surely it's not here on the Adobe site.

Although NewBlue Titler Pro is heading in the right direction - I don't think its current price reflects its current state correctly.

Competition tends to make things (prices & features) better for us. NewBlue is definitely stepping onto a field with some Veteran Players with this one. Hopefully everyone making Titlers/Animators take note and continue to improve.

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 23, 2012 Jan 23, 2012

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Evolution wrote:

The Screen Capture of him using NBTP in the video show NBTP as being a lot smoother and more responsive by far than I've ever experienced on my system...

We really do appreciate your, and everyone else's comments in this thread. It's certainly provided us with a lot to chew on, and some good suggestions on areas we need to focus on improving.

About the slowness you're experiencing in Titler, Evolution: is the Titler interface slow in every editing program on your computer? Is it any faster in Vegas, or using the Test Host? Or does everything just seem slow?

Also, can you please provide me with some information about your graphics card? What make / model and how much RAM it has?

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Explorer ,
Jan 23, 2012 Jan 23, 2012

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NewBlueMJ wrote:


About the slowness you're experiencing in Titler, Evolution: is the Titler interface slow in every editing program on your computer? Is it any faster in Vegas, or using the Test Host? Or does everything just seem slow?

Also, can you please provide me with some information about your graphics card? What make / model and how much RAM it has?

NBTP is slow in Vegas, Premiere, and TestHost. Although TestHost is not more reliable, it can be more convenient. Mine sometimes crashes when I hover over an Effect, Transition, etc. Maybe these effects should be cached same as RED does? RED seems to have no problem displaying samples or applying any of its many effects.

My graphics cards are under powered (2 x Radeon HD 2600 XT) for NBTP. It amazes me that both AE & RED are Rock Solid though. They drop frames but never a Crash. Understandably, maybe NBTP is doing something more dramatic with all the Face, Border, Outline, Textures, 2d, 3d, etc... but so does BluffTitler and it's probably the least GPU intensive titling app I've seen.

I'm just glad to finally be able to use NBTP on my personal rig, but it's slow on every workstation and NLE I've seen it run on though. A shop I frequent has some fairly fast HP systems and NBTP runs same speed and dependability as mine. I don't get the Slow GPU Message on my box as I've seen before. Another workstation I frequent has a GTX460 w/ 1GB GPU and he uninstalled NBTP because it was slow to react and crashed as frequently as mine. He's waiting on the v3 in hopes that it will be different.

As if having a mere 512MB GPU is not enough, this bit of info on the HD 2600 XT's crapping out may also be a factor:

http://support.apple.com/kb/ts3630

Also, I'm running Windows 7 via BootCamp, which I thought may be a factor.

Fresh install of everything, but NBTP was initially slow with only Vegas and NBTP installed.

Since I know my GPU is under-spec... I would just be happy with getting the features I mentioned above. I've been building the opening & ending titles for my current project in NBTP and clearly see it's potential. When the product is mature enough to warrant spending money on a good GPU, I will.

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New Here ,
Jan 19, 2012 Jan 19, 2012

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I've purchased a copy of New Blue Pro Titler.

Seems to work great for 2D effects but when I try 3D things slow up and some of the New Blue Templates freeze PP and have caused crashes.

I know it's nothing to do with rescources as I have plenty of RAM and GPU turned on etc..

I have a question with New Blue that I have just re-opened (have been away for 6 weeks), actually it was Marcus (see in this post) who I was posting with.

He said that they are having trouble with some of the effects and are going to pull some of them (hopefully to fix up at later date)

Hopefully he'll have an answer for me pretty soon.

Regards,

Greg

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