21 Replies Latest reply: Jul 14, 2012 12:28 AM by areohbee RSS

    Paste command does not always work with white balance.

    George in Seattle Community Member

      I finally figured out why LR sometimes ignores the paste command and if not a bug, it is at least a problem that can adversely affect the unsuspecting user.  Pasting a WB does not always work if both the source/target are both "As Shot", and yet the Temp/Tint are still different.  It seems priority should be given to the actual numbers instead of the As shot status, which (in my case) could vary between cameras.  The logic is a bit strange.

       

      I can see how whether or not this is a bug is debatable, but it seems more useful to have it work the other way.  There should at least be a message when the paste command results in no expected action (I expect the actual WB numbers to take priority over "as shot").

        • 1. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
          Dorin Nicolaescu-Musteață Community Member

          Then how would you copy As Shot between images if that's really what you

          wanted?

           

          To copy actual numbers, you need to set WB to Custom before copying.

           

          Sent from phone.

          • 2. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
            areohbee Community Member

            I agree whole-heartedly George. Users should be able to specify whether they want to sync (or copy/paste) as-shot mode or temp/tint values...

            • 3. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
              Ian Lyons ACP/MVPs

              George,

               

              This issue has been discussed on previous occasions. However, it really hasn't really been seen as a priority in the past, and isn't going to happen mid cycle. The workaround I tend to use is - select 'Custom' from the WB drop-down menu for your source image then select the remaining images and sync. Selecting 'Custom' leaves the original WB/Tint values but tricks Lr into using them rather than 'As Shot' during the sync.

               

              An alternative to above, which should be done before you apply any other edits, is to activate 'Auto Sync' select all of the images you want to have the same WB/Tint values then choose 'Custom' from WB drop-down menu. The key here is that all selected images will now be set to the same WB/Tint values as the most selected image. So, be sure you've picked the correct one. Also, remember to deactivate 'Auto Sync' when done.

               

              Both methods described above are equally valid, but when doing demos and workshops' I tend to recommend the first as it fits in better with the traditional syncing workflow. The second method works well for folk who shoot lots of images that require identical base adjustments to all images in a shoot (e.g. studio or weddings).

              • 4. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                Chris CB Community Member

                It's not easy to make a decision about that. Some people would like to copy "As Shot" as "As shot"... I mean, that they want to set the WB setting as in the camera at the moment of the image is made, whether or not the WB is the same temperature on the two shots. Other would like to copy the temperature. I think it's more a proplem of ergonomy than a bug.

                 

                I'd prefer that when you copy the "As shot" setting that the destination's wb is set to "As shot" and not to the source temperature. It seems more logical to me.

                • 5. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                  ssprengel MVP

                  I agree, it’s confusing until you understand, but correct behavior, otherwise there’d be no way to set As Shot en masse.

                  • 6. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                    areohbee Community Member

                    User just needs to be able to specify whether they want to sync the white balance mode or the temperature / tint values.

                     

                    (See Cookmarks for an example of this)

                    • 7. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                      ssprengel MVP

                      All you have to do to convert a particular photo’s As Shot to a consistent pair of the same Temp/Tint values is jiggle the Temp or Tint slider up a little and then back down to where it was, and the type of WB will change from As Shot to Custom.  With Custom the values remain constant until you change them.

                      • 8. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                        areohbee Community Member

                        The problem is that you need to review each target, to see whether this little prep step needs to be done, or just do it to make sure.

                         

                        I think specifying which you want, in no uncertain terms, and skipping the prep step would be preferable.

                         

                        More than one way to solve the problem, to be sure.

                         

                        Here's my solution:

                        * Convert all photos to custom white balance immediately upon import or PV conversion.

                        * If I do want to sync mode instead of values (which is approximately never), use Cookmarks.

                         

                        Different strokes for different folks...

                         

                        Rob

                        • 9. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                          Ian Lyons ACP/MVPs

                          ssprengel wrote:

                           

                          All you have to do to convert a particular photo’s As Shot to a consistent pair of the same Temp/Tint values is jiggle the Temp or Tint slider up a little and then back down to where it was, and the type of WB will change from As Shot to Custom.  With Custom the values remain constant until you change them.

                          You don't need to jiggle anythging. As I wrote above, select the source image then change WB to Custom, the original 'As Shot' values are retained but is now Custom and can be synced correctly across multiple images. I've only been doing this for 6 years, so you would think I'd have got a clue by now!

                          • 10. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                            areohbee Community Member

                            Setting to custom only yields the as-shot equivalent, if no custom adjustments have yet been done. If user has set custom adjustments, then gone back to as-shot, the jiggling method is required for the as-shot equivalent in custom mode.

                            • 11. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                              Ian Lyons ACP/MVPs

                              Rob Cole wrote:

                               

                               

                              Here's my solution:

                              * Convert all photos to custom white balance immediately upon import or PV conversion.

                              * If I do want to sync mode instead of values (which is approximately never), use Cookmarks.

                               

                               

                               

                              Rob,

                               

                              For the benefit of those who don't know, it would be helpful if you explained exactly how you convert ALL photos to custom on import. Likewise, for those (includes myself) who don't know what a 'Cookmark' is I think an explanation is in order.

                              • 12. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                                Ian Lyons ACP/MVPs

                                Rob Cole wrote:

                                 

                                Setting to custom only yields the as-shot equivalent, if no custom adjustments have yet been done. If user has set custom adjustments, then gone back to as-shot, the jiggling method is required for the as-shot equivalent in custom mode.

                                 

                                As soon as the WB is set back to 'As Shot' the jiggled values are cleared. So, the method I described is still the quickest, easiest and least likley to error approach.

                                • 13. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                                  areohbee Community Member

                                  One way to convert photos to custom wb upon import:

                                   

                                  Create a preset to be applied, which includes white balance, then load into a text editor and change:

                                   

                                  WhiteBalance = "{whatever}",

                                   

                                  to

                                   

                                  WhiteBalance = "Custom",

                                   

                                  Note: if WhiteBalance is already "Custom", then just delete the lines:

                                   

                                  Temperature = {whatever},

                                  Tint = {whatever},

                                   

                                   

                                  PS - see link above for more info about cookmarks.

                                   

                                   

                                  R

                                  • 14. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                                    areohbee Community Member

                                    Ian Lyons wrote:

                                     

                                    As soon as the WB is set back to 'As Shot' the jiggled values are cleared.

                                     

                                    In my experience, once custom white balance values have been set to something other than the as-shot values, they are never cleared, except by a reset, or other such measure.

                                     

                                     

                                     

                                    Ian Lyons wrote:

                                     

                                    So, the method I described is still the quickest, easiest and least likley to error approach.

                                     

                                    That method is not reliable for me, due to the above-mentioned.

                                     

                                     

                                    R

                                    • 15. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                                      Ian Lyons ACP/MVPs

                                      Rob Cole wrote:

                                       

                                      One way to convert photos to custom wb upon import:

                                       

                                      Create a preset to be applied, which includes white balance, then load into a text editor and change:

                                       

                                      WhiteBalance = "{whatever}",

                                       

                                      to

                                       

                                      WhiteBalance = "Custom",

                                       

                                       

                                       

                                      Fine, that clears that up. However, using the preset means every photo will be set to 'Custom', since applying a Develop preset during import is global. Somehow, I don't think that's a solution that many users will find useful, especially those who use Smart Collections and such like to filter on photos that have / have not already been edited (i.e. the wheels are off the wagon before they even get to starting line).

                                       

                                      BTW - I don't see the link you refer to.

                                      • 16. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                                        Ian Lyons ACP/MVPs

                                        Rob Cole wrote:

                                         

                                        Ian Lyons wrote:

                                         

                                        As soon as the WB is set back to 'As Shot' the jiggled values are cleared.

                                         

                                        In my experience, once custom white balance values have been set to something other than the as-shot values, they are never cleared, except by a reset, or other such measure.

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                         

                                        By design Lr should set the WB to the original WB values as soon as 'As Shot' is selected (effectively a reset). In 6 years of using the Lr that is exactly what I've seen happening on each and every occasion (Mac and Windows platform) I've used it. If you see something different then please post a bug report.

                                        • 17. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                                          areohbee Community Member

                                          Ian Lyons wrote:

                                           

                                          Somehow, I don't think that's a solution that many users will find useful, especially those who use Smart Collections and such like to filter on photos that have / have not already been edited (i.e. the wheels are off the wagon before they even get to starting line).

                                           

                                          It's not for everyone...

                                           

                                          PS - Cookmarks (it's not for everyone either...)

                                           

                                          Rob

                                          • 18. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                                            Ian Lyons ACP/MVPs

                                            Rob Cole wrote:

                                             

                                            PS - Cookmarks (it's not for everyone either...)

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            Thanks, I'll keep it in mind for future reference.

                                            • 19. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                                              areohbee Community Member

                                              Ian Lyons wrote:

                                               

                                              By design Lr should set the WB to the original WB values as soon as 'As Shot' is selected (effectively a reset). In 6 years of using the Lr that is exactly what I've seen happening on each and every occasion (Mac and Windows platform) I've used it. If you see something different then please post a bug report.

                                               

                                              Perhaps we have not been communicating accurately. Despite my objection to wb syncing behavior, switching between as-shot and custom is being handled perfectly, IMO:

                                               

                                              * Edit temp & tint and mode becomes custom.

                                              * switch to any other mode, and the custom values are no longer the active (visible) values, but under the hood, they have not been cleared.

                                              * switch back to custom and the edited values reappear.

                                               

                                              Perfect.

                                               

                                              (it would be much worse for me if the custom values were discarded when switching modes - Adobe: please do NOT "fix" this).

                                               

                                              Rob

                                              • 20. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                                                ssprengel MVP

                                                I agree LR is working correctly, now, so no fix or adjustment is needed and the Custom preset is a good idea, too, although at my age I usually just jiggle.

                                                • 21. Re: Paste command does not always work with white balance.
                                                  areohbee Community Member

                                                  ssprengel wrote:

                                                   

                                                  I agree LR is working correctly, now, so no fix or adjustment...

                                                   

                                                  I think you misunderstood me. I really think the wb sync should be fixed.

                                                   

                                                  Current behavior is unclear and problem prone.

                                                   

                                                  Better behavior: user can choose whether to sync wb mode or temp/tint values.

                                                   

                                                  I mean, it's a small thing to me because I:

                                                  * Know how it is.

                                                  * Know how to get around it.

                                                  * Usually remember.

                                                   

                                                  But for the unsuspecting / inexperienced or forgetful - it's a problem waiting to happen...

                                                   

                                                  (to be clear, when I said "please don't "fix" this", in the previous post, I was talking about remembering custom entered temp/tint when switching wb mode - which is a good good thing)

                                                   

                                                  Rob