37 Replies Latest reply: Jul 14, 2012 2:06 PM by Hudechrome RSS

    PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images

    Andrew_Hart Community Member

      I'm on Win7x64 with 8GB of RAM and all PsCS6 updates.

      Have Bridge and Ps open.

      Open image (jpg or psd or .CR2 with shift double-click) from Bridge into Ps then close image in Ps (with or without making any edits).

      Try to rename the Bridge folder in which the closed image resides.

      Bridge wont let me, says image is being used by another application. Have to close Ps before Bridge will allow me to rename the folder.

      Hmmm...Problem seems to be intermittent. For example, since typing, but before posting this thread, problem is not happening.

       

      Anyone else experiencing this behaviour?

        • 1. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
          Chris Cox Adobe Employee

          Photoshop does close and release any file it opens or saves -- we work hard to make sure that Photoshop does not keep them open and does not block other applications.

           

          Now, we have seen some font management plugins mess with files after they are saved.

          And OSes hold on to files while creating thumbnails or parsing metadata.

          • 2. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
            Andrew_Hart Community Member

            Chris,

             

            Well, that's what you say, and I do not doubt your sincerity and belief in what you say, but nevertheless the behaviour I have alluded to is happening.

             

            I have no font management plugins installed (unless they are installed by the Ps installation itself?) and I have thumbnails creation turned off in Win 7.

             

            As for parsing metadata (does Win 7 actually do this by itself?), I can't comment knowledgeably.

             

            Can you offer any further avenues of investigation so that I can try to track down the cause of the problem? It did not exist in CS5.

            • 3. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
              Chris Cox Adobe Employee

              Yes, Windows parses metadata from files, creates some thumbnails, etc.  Other thumbnailing applications can also lock a file (due to bugs in the APIs for thumbnail extensions).

               

              Try something like http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/opened_files_view.html  to see which applicaiton has the files open.

              • 4. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                Noel Carboni Community Member

                Andrew, there's a Windows setting that can help.  I've documented it in my Windows 7 and 8 books; here's an excerpt:

                 

                 

                Turn Off Caching of Thumbnails in Thumbs.db Files

                People sometimes report that they cannot manipulate their folders as they want to because Explorer has a Thumbs.db file open.  Windows generates these files for compatibility with older software that may expect such files to exist in folders with, for example, photos in them.  It does NOT need Thumbs.db files itself.

                Unless you're running such old software (which is uncommon at this point), you can just turn this off without consequences, and with a benefit:  You'll no longer be blocked from manipulating folders because of Thumbs.db file conflicts.

                The good news is that (with Windows 7 and above) you can disable this through the Group Policy Editor:

                         Click Start, type gpedit into the search box, and hit Enter.

                         When the Local Group Policy Editor comes up, navigate into:

                > User Configuration

                > Administrative Templates

                > Windows Components

                > Windows Explorer

                         Right-click the entry Turn off the caching of thumbnails in hidden thumbs.db files and choose Edit.
                     
                Make sure you get the right setting as there is another one with a similar name.

                         Set the policy to Enabled.

                         Log off Windows and back on.

                Note: If you have a version of Windows that does not provide the Group Policy Editor, the change can be done through a registry modification:

                [HKEY_CURRENT_USER \ Software \ Policies \ Microsoft \ Windows \ Explorer]

                DisableThumbsDBOnNetworkFolders  REG_DWORD 0x00000001 (1)

                 

                Not sure whether this might help you, but it's worth a try.

                 

                -Noel

                • 5. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                  Andrew_Hart Community Member

                  Chris and Noel,

                   

                  Thank you both for these suggestions.

                  I'll try them both the next time the problem arises, if indeed it does.

                  For the life of me, however, I've been unable to reproduce this behaviour today.

                  I suppose that's a good thing, although it is also a little frustrating.

                  • 6. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                    Noel Carboni Community Member

                    You'll need to make that change before you reproduce the problem; it won't help after the fact, though if Sofer's tool tells you it's Explorer that has its hooks that's a pretty good indication that the above tweak will work.  I haven't run across an app that needs Thumbs.db in years, so there's no downside to the tweak, which I have done to all my systems.

                     

                    -Noel

                    • 7. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                      the_wine_snob Community Member

                      Do you have Windows Indexing turned ON for the HDD/folders, where the Image files are stored? If so, try turning that OFF.

                       

                      Do you have any active-scanning, real-time anti-virus, anti-malware, anti-anything running? If so, try turning that OFF.

                       

                      As Chris points out, there are several other apps., and processes, that can lock a file, while it/hey process the file. Depending on the size of the file, and on the speed of one's computer, the time required can be rather long.

                       

                      Good luck,

                       

                      Hunt

                      • 8. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                        Curt Y Community Member

                        And don't forget that Bridge itself can be reindexing folders.

                        • 9. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                          Noel Carboni Community Member

                          Good point.  Indexing definitely needs to be ditched.  I have done a big writeup on the evils of indexing.  The worst of it is that for all of the trouble Indexing causes, it doesn't really make your system faster...  As long as you have a half decent disk drive just doing searches directly of the files themselves (which is what you get when you disable indexing) works just fine.

                           

                          -Noel

                          • 10. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                            Andrew_Hart Community Member

                            Noel,

                             

                            Take your point about the group policy tweak to prevent Thumbs.db creation - will give that a shot.

                            Not prepared to consider the NirSoft solution recommended by Chris Cox - NirSoft only has a bodgee X64 work around which some users have reported problems with. Besides, the x64 version of their "OpenFilesView" program is also impracticable. See here: http://blog.nirsoft.net/2010/01/09/openfilesview-on-x64-system-when-driver-signing-test-mo de-is-turned-on/

                             

                            Bill and Noel,

                             

                            Yes, I have had Windows indexing turned off for about a year or so now.

                             

                            Bill,

                             

                            Active anti-virus/malware/spyware has never caused the problem in CS5 in the past (to the best of my recollection) so I doubt this is causing the problem in CS6. But I'll keep this in mind if all other potential fixes fail.

                             

                            Curt,

                             

                            Don't think Bridge is the culprit, as it would hardly need to do any reindexing of folders just because you have opened a file in Ps and then closed it without performing any edits.

                             

                            Thanks to all for your feedback.

                            • 11. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                              Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                              Well, we need some tool to identify which process actually has the files held open.

                              If you can find a better tool, please let us know.

                              • 12. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                Andrew_Hart Community Member

                                Problem persists.

                                 

                                Humble pie first. The problem did exist for me under CS5 contrary to my stated belief in an earlier post. I  have just checked by restoring my system to a backup made 1 day prior to the installation of CS6. Apologies to Chris Cox and anyone else who may have been misled. As it may be relevant, the Bridge and ACR caches for my current installation of CS6 and CS5 are separate and distinct: that is to say, there is complete duplication and each cache resides in its own folder/s on a dedicated data drive.

                                 

                                All right, I've tried to simplify this as much as possible.

                                 

                                The following tests were performed in CS6 AND CS5 (x64 versions only) both before and after implementing, without a successful outcome, the Group Policy "Thumbs.db" recommendation from Noel Carboni and Bill Hunt's recommendation of disabling all anti-virus/spyware/malware, the latter of which I did (with the exception of Windows Defender) through both the programs themselves and also in Autoruns. I went further than that, however, and disabled (in Autoruns) all programs (except mandatory motherboard programs and my HP laser printer suite) and all, other than what I considered to be essential, Win7x64 programs/processes.

                                 

                                First test was in CS6.

                                 

                                1. Open from a folder in Bridge any .CR2 (mine from a 5D2) or .nef (mine from a D700) image (I tried 3 of each file format from 6 different folders) in ACR 7.1, zero all settings (including the default 25 point sharpening) and choosing either Process 2010 or 2012 (makes no difference).

                                 

                                2. Open from ACR into Ps, make no edits in Ps, "save as" .psd, .tif or .jpg back to the same folder from which the RAW was opened, close any resulting/remaining file in Ps telling Ps not to save any changes to the RAW.

                                 

                                Steps 1 and 2 as described are intentionally simplified merely to show that no edits in ACR or Ps are required to invoke the problem. Normally, I would, of course, often be making extensive edits in both ACR and Ps, but their presence or absence makes no difference to the outcome.

                                 

                                3. Switch to Bridge. Try to change the name of the folder into which the .psd, .tif or .jpg was saved.

                                 

                                4. Access is denied. I get this error message:

                                 

                                "Adobe Bridge

                                "The process cannot access the file because it is being used by another process."

                                 

                                5. Closing and reopening Bridge does not rectify. Only closing (or closing and reopening) Ps resolves the problem and allows folder renaming.

                                 

                                Given the extent to which I went to disable alternative causes, it would seem to me to be stretching things to say that Photoshop is not in any way responsible for the observed behaviour.

                                 

                                As indicated above, I also have CS5 installed on my system (Ps 12.0.4. Bridge 4.0.5.11, ACR 6.7). CS5 experiences the same problem (but only Process 2010 was tested), yielding exactly the same error message.

                                 

                                Would some kind soul please try these tests in their installations of CS6 and CS5 and see if they get the same results?

                                 

                                Regardless of your results, any further suggestions or assistance as to what may be happening and/or how to remedy the problem would be much appreciated.

                                 

                                I have often in the past found, and presently find, particularly whilst I am evaluating a completely new camera system, it necessary to rename folders in Bridge AFTER experimenting with edits to images in ACR and Ps. So this problem is not just a minor inconvenience but rather a real nuisance.

                                • 13. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                  Noel Carboni Community Member

                                  Hm, I think maybe I have been crossing up Photoshop holding a file open vs. operations on your folder being blocked. 

                                   

                                  I apologize for not thinking of this sooner...

                                   

                                  It just dawned on me...  As I recall, if an application has its default folder set to a particular folder, in general Windows will block operations on that folder until the application exits or changes its default folder to something else. 

                                   

                                  Could we be looking for some complex reasons when it might be something as simple as Photoshop just having its default pointed to the folder you're trying to rename?

                                   

                                  An easy way to reproduce this situation is to open a CMD window, then CD to the folder in question, then try to do something to that folder, such as rename it.

                                   

                                  CannotUse.jpg

                                   

                                  I've just reproduced this same issue quite easily with Photoshop by simply opening a PSD from a given folder, then closing it, then trying to rename the folder.

                                   

                                  To test this theory, try opening (and possibly saving) a PSD file somewhere else, completely separate from where you're working.

                                   

                                  So assuming this is the issue, the question becomes this:  COULD Photoshop be changed to set its default folder to somewhere else when you're not actually opening or saving a file (or after you've closed one)?  Noting that Photoshop maintains two separate default folders if you set the preferences a particular way, it seems possible.

                                   

                                  -Noel

                                  • 14. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                    Andrew_Hart Community Member

                                    Noel Carboni wrote:

                                     

                                    I've just reproduced this same issue quite easily with Photoshop by simply opening a PSD from a given folder, then closing it, then trying to rename the folder.

                                     

                                    To test this theory, try opening (and possibly saving) a PSD file somewhere else, completely separate from where you're working.

                                     

                                     

                                    Hi Noel,

                                     

                                    Thanks for the response.

                                     

                                    As per the 1st quoted line, I can successfully rename the folder under these conditions. Were you saying that you couldn't?

                                    Same success with the procedure outlined with the 2nd quoted line.

                                    Not sure what you mean by this:

                                    "Noting that Photoshop maintains two separate default folders if you set the preferences a particular way, it seems possible."

                                    Are you referring to the Bridge and ACR caches, or something else?

                                    Tried your Cmd line example, unsuccessfully. I can't get out of the C: drive with any cd (Change Directory) command. How do manage that?

                                    BTW, no need to apologise for anything. Quite the contrary. I'm very grateful for your input.

                                    • 15. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                      Noel Carboni Community Member

                                      If you're working on another drive you can add a command line switch to tell it to change drives as well:  CD /D path

                                       

                                      Yes, I reproduced it easily, generating the error message above.  Just to be clear, in Photoshop I chose File - Open, opened the PSD, then closed the document.  After that I could not rename, in Bridge, the folder in which the PSD file exists. 

                                       

                                      The difference is that opening the PSD this way seems to set the default folder (as expected).  When starting Photoshop from Bridge, Photoshop's own default folder is probably not changed.  That could be the source of some confusion.

                                       

                                      This was the setting I was thinking might affect the way Photoshop manages its current default folder...

                                       

                                      SaveSetting.png

                                       

                                      -Noel

                                      • 17. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                        Andrew_Hart Community Member

                                        Noel,

                                         

                                        1. Yes, if you open the PSD from Ps, then close it, then Bridge will not allow you to rename the folder. But if you open the file in Ps from Bridge, then close it, then Bridge will allow you to rename the folder. Must say I don't understand why there is a distinction in spite of your explanation. But I suppose what it really means is that I'm just going to have to live my problem.

                                         

                                        2. Yes, I have that preference ticked in Ps. Do think unselecting it might make a difference? No wait, I'll check it my lazy self.

                                         

                                        3. Thanks for the DOS lesson.

                                         

                                        Message was edited by: Andrew_Hart

                                        • 18. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                          Andrew_Hart Community Member

                                          Unchecking the preference in 2. changes nothing, even if you do a "save as" and rename instead of just simply closing the PSD.

                                           

                                          In both cases, if you open from Ps, you cannot rename the folder in Bridge. Annoying!

                                          • 19. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                            Chris Cox Adobe Employee

                                            Bridge might have the folder open, but Photoshop doesn't keep folders locked or open.

                                            • 20. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                              Andrew_Hart Community Member

                                              Did not know that you were allowed to dump on the poor, old (?) Bridge engineers

                                               

                                              Thanks for your previous contributions, Chris.

                                              • 21. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                Hudechrome Community Member

                                                Going back to an earlier post by Noel, typing gpedit in Search doesn't work. You have to type gpedit.msc to run  it.

                                                • 22. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                  Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                  Chris Cox wrote:

                                                   

                                                  Bridge might have the folder open, but Photoshop doesn't keep folders locked or open.

                                                   

                                                  Chris!  Did you not read what I wrote above?  It has nothing to do with keeping anything locked or open. 

                                                   

                                                  I sense you may be more familiar with the Mac than PC environment...  In Windows, every process has a default "Current Directory" that is maintained at run-time.  It's where file dialogs open up automatically in the general case.  The initial default is what you specify in desktop shortcuts in the "Start in" field.

                                                   

                                                  Windows will not allow you to rename a folder that's currently some application's current directory.  That's the root cause here.

                                                   

                                                  See:  http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa365530(v=vs.85).aspx

                                                   

                                                  One possibility that comes to mind to fix this issue is that you *could* change Photoshop's programming to SetCurrentDirectory to the root or scratch folder when no document is open.  That would avert this kind of issue.  You'd have to make sure you have all the right SetCurrentDirectory calls in the various file dialogs (probably already there).

                                                   

                                                  -Noel

                                                  • 23. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                    Andrew_Hart Community Member

                                                    Yes, that's correct.

                                                    Or you can type gpedit at a Command Prompt - not as neat, but it works.

                                                    • 24. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                      Andrew_Hart Community Member

                                                      Noel,

                                                       

                                                      At last I understand, because of this: Windows will not allow you to rename a folder that's currently some application's current directory.

                                                       

                                                      Thanks.


                                                      • 25. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                        Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                        As a workaround, when you get it to happen try this:

                                                         

                                                        In Photoshop, go to the File - Open menu, and open a file somewhere else on your hard drive.

                                                         

                                                        See if the problem goes away right after opening the file.

                                                         

                                                        -Noel

                                                        • 26. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                          Andrew_Hart Community Member

                                                          Noel,

                                                           

                                                          Workaround: unfortunately, no luck.

                                                           

                                                          Matters not whether you leave the first file (opened from the Desktop in my trial) open or close it when/before opening the file in the folder I'm actually working in.

                                                           

                                                          In both cases, after finishing with the real file in Ps by saving it as, say, a PSD, then returning to Bridge, folder renaming is prevented.

                                                          • 27. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                            Hudechrome Community Member

                                                            I finally got around to trying it myself, and didn't have a problem renaming folders after closing the file in PS.

                                                             

                                                            Now I have seen that warning and AFAIR, it wasn't only Photoshop, (or maybe not even PS!). I simply closed the app and went on. I'll look more carefully next time around. It is rather rare. Also, I did have the Caching Thubs to which Noel referred turned on, so I turned it off before running this test.

                                                             

                                                            In this case, I renamed the folder in Bridge or Explorer.

                                                             

                                                            BTW, I looked at that app from Chris and wasn't too happy with the workarounds to be able to use it in a 64 bit system, particularly running in test mode. Also, I noted one commenter's problem with Bitlocker after using it with the workarounds. I much prefer Sysinternals, if I only can remember all the details! But it never messed up anything unless I did something stupid.

                                                             

                                                            I used Sysinternals years ago when recalcitrant handles refused to let go. Not so much any more.

                                                            • 28. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                              Andrew_Hart Community Member

                                                              Hudechrome wrote:

                                                               

                                                              In this case, I renamed the folder in Bridge or Explorer.

                                                               

                                                              Lawrence,

                                                               

                                                              That's interesting.

                                                               

                                                              Were you following the test steps I outlined in Post # 12 or Noel's workaround in Post # 25?

                                                              • 29. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                                Hudechrome Community Member

                                                                I was following your steps with the addition of stopping the Thumbs in Exploroe as Noel indicated.

                                                                • 30. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                                  Andrew_Hart Community Member

                                                                  Noel,

                                                                   

                                                                  Got any suggestions as to why Lawrence can rename the folder in Bridge and we can't?

                                                                  • 31. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                                    Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                                    All I can think of is that we all may be reproducing things with slightly different steps.

                                                                     

                                                                    -Noel

                                                                    • 32. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                                      Andrew_Hart Community Member

                                                                      Lawrence said he followed the same steps as I did, namely the steps in my Post # 12.

                                                                       

                                                                      If you did the same, then I'm at a loss as to how Lawrence can get a different result.

                                                                       

                                                                      Very puzzling.

                                                                       

                                                                      Come on Lawrence, what's your secret?

                                                                      • 33. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                                        Hudechrome Community Member

                                                                        My results seem consistent with Chris' expectations.

                                                                         

                                                                        I went back to post 12 and 13, decided to run the test as Noel setup, as his seemed definite and the most reproducible. I opened an .nef from Bridge in ACR did no edits continued on to PS. Saved it to drive H (my work drive is Drive J). I did not exit PS and left the file, now saved to Drive E on screen. I went to Bridge, the folder is renamed successfully.

                                                                         

                                                                        To summarize:

                                                                         

                                                                        The original: 20120506_188 .nef is on Drive J .

                                                                        The copy: 20120506_188.psd is saved to Drive H

                                                                        The folder: 20120506 has ben renamed to 20120506_Rhod successfully in Bridge.

                                                                         

                                                                        Bridge is open PS is open the image is still up in both. I can close out of everything, reopen Bridge, reopen PSD and access the nef and the psd with no problems, the .psd being obtained from Open Recent menu, the .nef in Bridge.

                                                                         

                                                                        -Lawrence

                                                                         

                                                                        Message was edited by: Hudechrome

                                                                        • 34. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                                          Hudechrome Community Member

                                                                          Ok, I did duplicate the problem, but not in Bridge.

                                                                           

                                                                          I was moving and editing older files in Explorer. One folder had  files I didn't recognize. It had a few nef, so I opened one in ACR.I recognized the shot from a kitchen remodel so I closed the image but left PS open. I attempted to rename the folder, appending Kitchen to the file name and it would not take it, giving the same message about the file being open. It wasn't but PS was, so I exited PS then the name change stuck.

                                                                           

                                                                          So it does happen, but in different scenarios.

                                                                           

                                                                          Process:

                                                                           

                                                                          Find a folder with pictures using Explorer

                                                                          Go directly to an image, in my case it was a .nef.

                                                                          See it opened and exit with no changes. Leave PS open.

                                                                          Back at Explorer attempt a rename.

                                                                          Explorer issues the file open statement.

                                                                          Go back to PS to verify the image is missing.

                                                                          Go back to Explorer try again. Same message.

                                                                          Exit PS, go back to explorer and now the rename completes as generated.

                                                                           

                                                                          What remains is to actually open an image from ACR to PS exit the image and then attempt a rename.

                                                                          • 35. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                                            Hudechrome Community Member

                                                                            A few more trials and I finally can make it happen in Bridge as well.

                                                                            The difference is where one saves it.

                                                                            Save the image from PS to another loaction, rename folder ok.

                                                                            Save it to the same folder Rename not ok.

                                                                             

                                                                            In this, Explorer and Bridge are in agreement. I cannot rename the folder in Explorer after saving toi the same location.

                                                                             

                                                                            Change to different location Rename folder

                                                                            Save to same location cannot rename the folder.

                                                                             

                                                                            Bridge and Explorer.

                                                                            • 36. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                                              Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                                              I can confirm that when I saw it happen it was after having saved the last file Photoshop had open in the folder that I then tried to rename.

                                                                               

                                                                              This fully supports my theory that Photoshop is leaving it's current directory set to that folder, even without a document open from there.  It's something Adobe could work around in their software if they wanted to.

                                                                               

                                                                              -Noel

                                                                              • 37. Re: PsCS6 not releasing control of closed images
                                                                                Hudechrome Community Member

                                                                                I suspect it may have to do with the scratch disk.

                                                                                 

                                                                                I ran out of steam for testing but I thought as sometime to delete the scratch while PS is open but no image present then try the save.