16 Replies Latest reply: Jul 26, 2012 9:12 AM by P Spier RSS

    Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file

    James_233 Community Member

      I am working on a small booklet in InDesign which contains around 20 small examples of work completed in Illustrator, pdf and other formats.

       

      At prepress some of the pictures are showing as RGB, even though the Package report in InDesign says "0 use RGB space".

       

      When I opened some attached files in Illustrator they were in RGB, which I changed to CMYK. However, I cannot open in Illustrator some of the pdf pictures because I do not have some of the fonts.

       

      How can I check a 3rd party PDF to see that it is in CMYK or RGB and if in RGB, how can I change it to CMYK.

       

      And why is InDesign showing that "0 use RGB space" when some attached pictures/logos are in RGB space?

       

      Thanks for any help.

        • 1. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
          BobLevine CommunityMVP

          Open it in Acrobat and check it there.

           

           

           

          Bob

          • 2. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
            BobLevine CommunityMVP

            BTW, what exactly is wrong with having properly tagged RGB images?

             

             

             

            Bob

            • 3. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
              James_233 Community Member

              Thanks Bob for replying. I tried converting the files in Acrobat with that general command "convert everything to CMYK" but it does this in the background and no feedback whatsoever.

               

              I apologise for sounding so dumb, but how do I check whether a pdf in Acrobat is in RGB or CMYK? I have never been able to find the command for this.

               

              With regard to "properly tagged RGB images" these are third party images, I had nothing to do with their creation, and incidentally I would not know how to tag images as RGB because when I create my pdfs I know what their purpose is - litho print (CMYK) or digital (does not matter) or for web (RGB) and thus I create them.

              • 4. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                James_233 Community Member

                The other issue is why did InDesign's package report that "0 use RGB space" when some were in RGB space?

                • 5. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                  Laubender CommunityMVP

                  @James – if you are using Acrobat Pro 8 or 9, you'll find at least two palettes which come handy for prepress use:

                   

                  Advanced / Print Production / Output Preview

                   

                  If you like you can go to "Show": "RGB" and you will see RGB objects only…

                   

                   

                  Advanced / Print Production / Preflight

                   

                  In the "Preflight" panel there are a lot of  profiles for analyzing and fixing issues.

                  You could define your own  or alter pre-defined ones.

                   

                  If you are using Acrobat Pro X, you'll find the two panels at other places…

                   

                  Note: a PDF could hold a lot of color spaces; it's not an "either / or", it could easily be an "and" (RGB and CMYK and Gray and Lab …).

                   

                  Uwe

                  • 6. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                    P Spier CommunityMVP

                    Is it possible some images were pasted instead of placed? I'm not sure prefilght would pick up the RGB in that case.

                    • 7. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                      rob day CommunityMVP

                      why did InDesign's package report that "0 use RGB space" when some were in RGB space?

                       

                      Because PDF files can contain objects with different color spaces there's no way of knowing what it's resolution, color space, or color profile is—if you select a PDF and look at the Info Panel actual and effective resolution, color space, and color profile are blank.

                       

                      How can I check a 3rd party PDF to see that it is in CMYK or RGB and if in RGB, how can I change it to CMYK.

                       

                      You can convert all of the RGB objects in the layout or inside of a placed PDF to any CMYK space by exporting the ID document to PDF. If you export via the default PDF/X-1a preset all color except spot color is converted to your document's CMYK space. If an RGB object has an assigned profile the conversion is from its assigned RGB space to document CMYK.

                      • 8. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                        James_233 Community Member

                        Hi Peter

                        None of the pix were embedded. However, all of the pix were legacy Illustrator files. I wonder if InDesign CS6 is not recognising RGB space from legacy Illustrator files. If so, there is a bug.

                         

                        Can you test it out? However, you have answered before and you are a PC man. I am on a Mac.

                        • 9. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                          rob day CommunityMVP

                          How can I check a 3rd party PDF to see that it is in CMYK or RGB and if in RGB, how can I change it to CMYK.

                           

                          If for some reason you don't want to export your ID document to a CMYK pdf, you can convert the provided PDFs to CMYK in AcrobatPro via Tools>Print Production>Convert Colors.

                           

                          RGB shouldn't be a prepress problem anymore—accurate color managed conversions to CMYK can be made via Export or Print from ID.

                          • 10. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                            P Spier CommunityMVP

                            James_233 wrote:

                             

                            Hi Peter

                            None of the pix were embedded. However, all of the pix were legacy Illustrator files. I wonder if InDesign CS6 is not recognising RGB space from legacy Illustrator files. If so, there is a bug.

                             

                            Can you test it out? However, you have answered before and you are a PC man. I am on a Mac.

                            PC or Mac makes no difference, but you should go back and look at Rob's previous answer about PDF, becasue I think that's what you are seeing with preflight. Illustrator has been PDF for years.

                            • 11. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                              James_233 Community Member

                              HI Peter

                              I am not just talking about the pdfs from other sources, but about a logo which I had worked on and which was in an old version of Illustrator. I'd forgotten it was in RGB. I know that Illustrator has been pdf for years

                               

                              Thanks

                               

                              James

                              • 12. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                                P Spier CommunityMVP

                                I think I'm lost now about what the problem is, exactly.

                                 

                                I think we've explained why preflight might not find RGB. What version of ID are you using, by the way? Your description "0 use RGB Color Space" sounds like the preflight fom the package command, not the live preflight available since CS4. Live Preflight can be set to flag RGB used in PDF, but the same file will not show an RGB warning in the package preflight.

                                 

                                The real question, though is what export settings you are using, and why you aren't converting to a CMYK space on export if the printer doesn't want to handle the conversion on his end.

                                • 13. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                                  James_233 Community Member

                                  Peter I have been doing this sort of work for years and I have never encountered this problem.

                                  Yes, I was using the Package command, but I also take note of the Prefllght panel (basic) and it did not tell me I had RGB files.

                                   

                                  And thank you for drawing my attention to the Preflight panel features. I have always used the Basic one because I thought it would pick up an RGB space, because isn't that something essential to check for printing? Anyway, I have created a new Preflight and it has picked up the RGBs and even Lab in some documents I created and I have never, ever used Lab in any document.

                                   

                                  I have just noticed that in the links palette the color space shows CMYK for some files, but no RGB. They are blank, even though I have since changed them to CMYK. I attach a screen shot to show you what I mean.

                                   

                                  No RGB displayed3a.png

                                   

                                  So why is the Package command not picking up RGB when it used to do so?

                                  Why isn't the Links panel displaying RGB in linked .ai files when other linked files (Photoshop) are displayed as being in CMYK space. Even when I have re-saved the .ai files as Illustrator CS6 and converted to them to CMYK they are not displaying as CMYK on the Links panel.

                                   

                                  The export settings I am using are the built-in pre-press ones.

                                  • 14. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                                    P Spier CommunityMVP

                                    All of the links you're showing with no color space are either .ai or PDF. ID just doesn't report the color space for those because it can be mixed.

                                     

                                    As far as whether the package command used to pick up the RGB, I couldn't say that it ever did. Can you test on an earlier version with the same PDF? I wonder if in the past you either didn't have PDFs with RGB in them, or if you did a conversion to CMYK on export and that's why you never saw this before. Sending a file with colors preserved is a relatively new workflow (generally we're talking about sending PDF/X-4 to a printer who specifies that they can handle it) and it would be far more common to have converted to CMYK at output. You haven't told us waht PDF settings you use now, or if they are the same as previously.

                                    • 15. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                                      rob day CommunityMVP

                                      I have just noticed that in the links palette the color space shows CMYK for some files, but no RGB. They are blank, even though I have since changed them to CMYK. I attach a screen shot to show you what I mean.

                                      See post #7. ID's Info has never shown color space or profiles for .ai or .pdf

                                       

                                      The export settings I am using are the built-in pre-press ones.

                                       

                                      Use the PDF/X-1a preset if you don't want RGB objects in the PDF.

                                      • 16. Re: Pdf colourspace in an InDesign file
                                        P Spier CommunityMVP

                                        Sorry, I seem to have missed the line about the export settings.

                                         

                                        Not sure what you mean about the "prepress" ones since there are none specifically labelled Prepress. Both PDF/X-1a and "Press Quality" should be converting to a CMYK profile. "High Qulaity Print" preserves existing colors.