16 Replies Latest reply: Aug 1, 2012 5:19 PM by the_wine_snob RSS

    Apply Effects to Source Clips?

    david.madison

      Hello!


      Pardon my ignorance, but I'm jumping into Premiere feet first with little prior experience.  I'm working on some digitized Super 8 footage, but everything I have is currently still in negative form.  I'm trying to apply a few initial effects to see the footage properly (desaturation and inversion), but I cannot seem to apply effects to Source clips if they are not already in the timeline.  As you can probably understand, this makes splicing a film together rather difficult.

       

      I was using a copy of Final Cut Express earlier tonight, and that seemed to communite with the source clips (i.e. apply initial effects) rather well.  Does Premiere have the same functionality?  This is quite frustrating.

       

      Thanks for the help!

      Dave

        • 1. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
          shooternz Community Member

          That can not be done in Premiere.

           

           

          edit: just thought a bit more about your dilemma.

           

          You could create an adjustment layer with the FX you want and edit from the Timeline.

           

          Adjustment Layer on Video 2 and your source footage on Video 1.

          • 2. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
            david.madison Community Member

            Thanks for the help!  Just to confirm - there is no way to apply effects directly to the source for a preview (in order to mark the in/out points for inserting clips)?  That's a real pity...

             

            I tried the method you suggested, though I'm confused - if I'm editing on the timeline, how would using an adjustment layer be different from adding the effects directly to the clip?

            • 3. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
              shooternz Community Member

              There is no way to apply fx to the source clips before you edit them.

               

              One adjustment layer will save you adding the fx to each of the clips individually.

               

              Your first task is to be able to see the clips and some how you managed to get clips in negative?  How did that even happen?

               

              Use the trim tools in the timeline will acheive the same thing as marking edit points in the source monitor if not a little slower..

              • 4. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                JSS1138 Community Member

                everything I have is currently still in negative form.

                 

                You should telecine the positive print.

                • 5. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                  shooternz Community Member

                  I find it interesting that he actually has a digital file in negative.  Hoping he will tell us how that happened.

                   

                   

                  BTW - a telecine will work with  negative or a positive film. 

                   

                  I doubt he had negative Super 8 so question begs...who turned the positive into a negative clip.  Curious.

                  • 6. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                    the_wine_snob Community Member

                    In another lifetime, I worked a lot with S-8, and never saw negative stock in that format. It was only 16mm, and above, that had both negative and positive stock.

                     

                    Now, and this is just a guess, but I would speculate that FCP is able to apply Effects during the creation of the intermediate files, that it uses.

                     

                    Since PrPro is Importing the files natively, with no intermediates, there is no place in the workflow for pre-processing Invert, etc.

                     

                    Hunt

                    • 7. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                      david.madison Community Member

                      Thanks for the help, everyone!  Looks like I'll have to find another way to do this.

                       

                      In regards to having a negative print - the camera print is negative.  It's Super-8 Tri-X developed to a negative instead of a positive.  There is no existing positive print, so the negative print was telecined.

                      • 8. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                        shooternz Community Member

                        So why was it not inverted at telecine stage?

                         

                        Never heard of any one telecining for a negative output.  How was it graded?

                        • 9. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                          david.madison Community Member

                          I don't know why it wasn't inverted at telecine.  I didn't order the conversion, and I haven't talked to the tech who did it.  I'll ask the next time I'm by the lab.

                           

                          Forgive me if I'm not understanding the term perfectly - for "grading," you're talking about the color specifics for the footage?  It was B&W film.

                          • 10. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                            shooternz Community Member

                            CC and grading would include setting "levels" and neutralising the color.  In your case..true black and white with grey scales.

                             

                            Very odd that the lab output negative though.

                             

                            I think I would have them do it again or have all the files made into an intermediate (positive)

                            • 11. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                              david.madison Community Member

                              Okay, thanks.  The output files from the telecine (negative) have a blue cast, so they still need to be desaturated.  The contrast is not set properly, but in the vast majority of scenes nothing is clipped.

                               

                              I think I'll just export all of the files into a positive clip.  Is there any easy way to imprint the time codes from Premiere?

                              • 12. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                                shooternz Community Member

                                You do not want to burn in the Time code.... that will make it unuseable in the edit.

                                 

                                If you export an intermediate from the timeline..there will be timecode in the new clip(s).  The TC will match the timeline TC.  You can change that if need be.  You can also "Post Time code" to the clip(s) later

                                • 13. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                                  JSS1138 Community Member

                                  There is no existing positive print

                                   

                                  I was suggesting you get one before doing the telecine.

                                  • 14. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                                    the_wine_snob Community Member

                                    It's Super-8 Tri-X developed to a negative instead of a positive.

                                    Ah, now I understand. I used to shoot Tri-X, but then bleached and redeveloped it to a Positive, as lab printing services from S-8 negative (B/W only), was very limited, unlike for 16mm and above.

                                     

                                    Thanks for that clarification.

                                     

                                    Good luck, and wish that I had more to offer, than what Craig already has.

                                     

                                    Hunt

                                    • 15. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                                      david.madison Community Member

                                      shooternz wrote:

                                       

                                      You do not want to burn in the Time code.... that will make it unuseable in the edit.

                                       

                                      If you export an intermediate from the timeline..there will be timecode in the new clip(s).  The TC will match the timeline TC.  You can change that if need be.  You can also "Post Time code" to the clip(s) later

                                      Got it - thanks!

                                       

                                      Jim - Okay, I understand now.  Reason for not making a positive print was purely financial - more film, more processing, more time.

                                       

                                      Bill - I'm working at the local community darkroom, and they have a few chemicals on-hand, including dektol, D-76, fixer, etc.  They don't have any bleach available, so it's just easier to process into a negative.  Quite welcome for the clarification - thanks for the interest!

                                       

                                      Thanks everyone for the help and suggestions!  I'll create some intermediate files and go from there.

                                       

                                      Dave

                                      • 16. Re: Apply Effects to Source Clips?
                                        the_wine_snob Community Member

                                        Bill - I'm working at the local community darkroom, and they have a few chemicals on-hand, including dektol, D-76, fixer, etc.  They don't have any bleach available, so it's just easier to process into a negative.  Quite welcome for the clarification

                                         

                                        Dave,

                                         

                                        You are bringing back memories of my darkroom days - stop that!

                                         

                                        I would have to dig deeply into my B/W cine processing documents to pull the bleach formula, and then the redevelopment method. Seems (we ARE talking ~ 40 years ago), that one did a "flash" between the bleach and clearing step, and the redevelopment. Been too long, for me to go off quoting the steps now.

                                         

                                        I had not considered that you were shooting B/W, and were stopping at the processing to negative. That was the last thing on my mind, when I read your thread, and Craig's Reply on "negative."

                                         

                                        Thanks for the trip down "memory lane."

                                         

                                        Good luck,

                                         

                                        Hunt