25 Replies Latest reply: Dec 21, 2012 4:51 AM by Noel Carboni RSS

    Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur

    gswetsky

      Got a minute?  Super!  Try this. 

       

      Open an image with some detail in the lower right area.  Create a duplicate layer.  Choose the crop tool.  Make sure the option "Delete Cropped Pixels" in NOT checked.

       

      Grab the crop corner in the lower right of your image and move it diagonally inward  somewhat.  Confirm the crop.

       

      Get the blur tool, make your brush size fairly large and brush the lower right of your image.  Allow your brush to go beyond the border of your image.

       

      Okay, when your image is noticeably blurred, switch to the move tool, grab your image and move it up and to the left exposing some of the area you cropped out.

       

      Ta-da!  Isn't that pretty?  It only happens with the blur tool.  Try using the burn or dodge tool and this doesn't happen.

       

      I reported this when I was playing with CS6 beta.  You'd think it'd be fixed by now.

       

      Gerry

        • 1. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
          R_Kelly Community Member

          I don't believe much of what was reported during the beta was fixed in the release version, but hopefully it will be addressed in the 13.01 update (or whatever the update is called).

          That is also a problem in some earlier versions of photoshop, but crop with hide wasn't the default as it is in photoshop cs6, so i guess it wasn't as obvious.

           

          I'm pretty sure adobe knows about the problem in cs6.

           

           

          Same procedure in photoshop cs5 on windows, except one has to choose Hide after drawing out the crop tool:

           

           

           

           

          Untitled-1.jpg

           

          updated to add screenshot from cs5

           

          Message was edited by: R_Kelly

          • 2. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
            CameraAnn Community Member

            I am not exactly sure what effect you were after, but if you wanted to restrict the blurring to only the visible  part of the cropped image, you can do that very easily by making your Crop; then Selecting All; and then using the Blur tool.

             

            If you then go to Image/Reveal All, you will see that the Blur has not affected the area beyond the marquee.

            • 3. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
              gswetsky Community Member

              CameraAnn, you probably didn't try the procedure I described.  If you had, you'd have discovered the blur tool completely destroys the pixels beyond the crop.  When trying the same thing with the burn and dodge tools one finds the pixels beyond the crop receive the same treatment as those within the crop.

               

              This is a bug, pure and simple.  What I was trying to accomplish has no bearing on that fact.

               

              Gerry

              • 4. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                CameraAnn Community Member

                I had actually followed your steps exactly —  and I saw the problem that I assumed that you were seeing.

                 

                After further testing, I discovered that simply activating a Selection around the visible pixels retained all blurring within the selected area and prevented the problem that you had had previously with the damaged pixels in the masked area beyond your Crop.

                 

                Try doing it my way and see if that doesn't solve your problem.

                 

                I am not so sure that this IS a Bug: it looks more like a User using a tool in a way that perhaps it was never intended to be used?!

                • 5. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                  conroy Community Member

                  Sharpen Tool wrecks hidden pixels, too.

                  • 6. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                    gswetsky Community Member

                    So it does - And smudge doesn't extend outside the crop area.

                     

                    I still contend it's a bug.

                     

                    Gerry

                    • 7. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                      conroy Community Member

                      gswetsky wrote:

                       

                      I still contend it's a bug.

                       

                       

                       

                      I agree. The wrecking of pixels must be considered a bug.

                       

                       

                      I've compared the behaviour of some tools; only Blur Tool and Sharpen Tool wreck hidden pixels. Other tools are as follows.

                       

                      Ignore hidden pixels

                      ----------------------------

                      Background Eraser

                      Magic Eraser

                      Art History Brush

                      Spot Healing Brush

                      Healing Brush

                      Color Replacement Brush

                      Mixer Brush

                      Smudge

                       

                       

                      Affect hidden pixels as if visible

                      ------------------------------------------

                      Eraser

                      History Brush

                      Brush

                      Pencil

                      Dodge

                      Burn

                      Sponge

                      Gradient

                       

                       

                      Wreck hidden pixels

                      ---------------------------

                      Blur

                      Sharpen

                       

                       

                      Note some strange inconsistencies: Eraser versus Background Eraser, History Brush versus Art History Brush.

                      • 8. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                        Noel Carboni Community Member

                        Great list, Conroy - nice work. I wonder if Adobe had such a list before you compiled it.

                         

                         

                        DEFINITELY a bug!  The inconsistency of it makes the use of the "preserve pixels past edge of image" feature practically useless.

                         

                        And such an obvious bug it makes me wonder...

                         

                        Given that Adobe has changed the behavior of Crop to make the preservation of cropped pixels more likely, it's hard to believe such a bug could actually get out to the customers.

                         

                        As with some other issues (the release of the product with a serious text corruption bug), it seems clear to me that there are several management problems in Adobe's software development process:

                         

                        • Project planning deficiencies - who wrote the spec for "preserve pixels past the edge" without taking all these things into account?

                         

                        • Overwhelming pressure to release on time, regardless of all else.

                         

                        • Process timing issues (release build completed before beta test even starts).

                         

                        • Inability to properly judge what's acceptable to leave broken in released software and what's a "show stopper".

                         

                        • Problems in communicating feature development changes to the system test plan.

                         

                         

                         

                        It really feels like the released code isn't buggy so much as just unfinished.  Has Adobe decided to just release whatever they have every now and then, without a focus on getting it done first?

                         

                        And worse, now that they've released it, Adobe is faced with a new problem:  Do they finish the code and make it work right in a 13.0.x update, or do they just leave such problems in the product for another major or minor release (e.g., 13.1 or 14.0)? 

                         

                        • On the one hand, finishing the code is the right thing to do, from a customer quality perspective, but major changes chance exposing new problems, and it would further expose their process problems to the world. 

                         

                        • On the other hand they could just leave this stuff broken, bringing out fixes in a future update, which might "save face" after a fashion, but send the message that Adobe quality and attention to detail has reached an all-time low.

                         

                        Speaking of major or minor releases...  Assuming the correction of such problems as are being described in this thread are somehow deemed "feature enhancements" (I wouldn't put it past Adobe management to do this), do the Creative Cloud subscribers get them while people who have bought perpetual licenses do not?

                         

                        Does anyone here see any good in all this?  I'm struggling to see any.  I suppose you could say that the folks who don't use Photoshop in such a way that requires these tools to work consistenly get some benefit from the other features they did find a way to finish, and of course there's financial benefit for Adobe, so they can continue development rather than close their doors.

                         

                        I can't imagine that the Adobe engineers could like doing business this way.

                         

                        -Noel

                        • 9. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                          TLL... Community Member

                          Warning - potential thread hijack

                           

                          "Given that Adobe has changed the behavior of Crop to make the preservation of cropped pixels more likely, it's hard to believe such a bug could actually get out to the customers."

                           

                          I dunno, over the past few days I've been working with the new crop tool in CS6 @home and just don't see the point of any of the the supposed improvements. Even after reverting to the "old" way in CS6 it still isn't. Why on earth is the darn tool persistent even after initiating a crop selection?. Even an 'escape' doesn't get rid of it (like the old tool). At least with the real old tool you don't have this selection window sticking around until you get so frustrated you select a different tool just to get rid of it.  IMO the entire new crop tool is a complete bug, adding nothing to my skill/ability and making a simple step into a very complicated one...

                          • 10. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                            Brett N Employee Hosts

                            From my own testing, this has nothing to do with the Crop tool, it's purely about the Blur tool and how it reacts to materials that are off canvas. To prove it is not the Crop tool, open an image, duplicate the background layer. Transform it to 200% scale (so that it is now double the canvas size, thus having a great deal of material off canvas), and use the Blur tool near a corner. Move the layer and you will see the same effect, Crop tool never having been used. But I'll report this to the engineering team to get fixed.

                            • 11. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                              gswetsky Community Member

                              Brett,

                               

                              Good luck - this isn't the first time someone has reported this bug to engineering to get fixed.  At this point I no longer care.  As far as I'm concerned, I'm no longer wasting my time reporting bugs I discover in Adobe software.

                               

                              Gerry

                              • 12. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                Brett N Employee Hosts

                                Have you recieved any feedback on your bug reports? How did you report them? Did you get bug numbers that I can look up?

                                • 13. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                  gswetsky Community Member

                                  No I don't, Brett.  I reported them on the forums and a responder said they would report the bug to the engineering team.  So far neither this bug nor the other one which causes trouble when you are booting from an SSD and installing all programs to another drive.  P'shop insists on putting the cache file on the SSD regardless of the settings.  I could go on......

                                   

                                  I know this varies from the subject.  Perhaps we should go to PM or e-mail.

                                   

                                  Gerry

                                  • 14. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                    Brett N Employee Hosts

                                    I'm not sure who you worked with before, but I logged the bug with engineering and it is already being investigated, but I haven't been told that this is a duplicate. But it is being worked on now.

                                     

                                    Do you happen to have the links to any of the former posts you've made with these bug reports?

                                    • 15. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                      gswetsky Community Member

                                      I can find none of them.  Some were sent in the CS6 Beta forum group and I imagine they were deleted.  I was under the mistaken impression that Adobe would consider it important to examine the contents of that group prior to dumping it.

                                       

                                      Brett, I'm sorry for the sarcasm, but I am well into my senior citizen years and have been reporting program bugs for years.  To put it kindly, I have worked with companies who value their customers' input much more than Adobe seems to.  By the way, AT&T is NOT included in the previous statement.

                                       

                                      Gerry -> Retired from Unisys in 2001 - A+ certified

                                      • 16. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                        Brett N Employee Hosts

                                        Sorry about your previous experience. Did you get a response from an engineer on your posts? What types of issues did you report?

                                        • 17. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                          gswetsky Community Member

                                          I don't recall, Brett.  At any rate I'm going to report a bug related to the cache bug.  We'll see how that turns out.  Thanks.

                                           

                                          [EDIT:]  Brett, I found all my older posts.  I'll go through them l8r.  Gotta run!  Btw, I just put up two new posts re my CS6.

                                           

                                          Gerry

                                          • 18. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                            gswetsky Community Member

                                            I just reposted my two biggest complaints about CS6 (1.Takes too long to load. 2. Places a 4Gb temp file in my C drive.)  I seem to be getting a lot of help this time.

                                             

                                            Thanks,

                                            Gerry

                                            • 19. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                              Brett N Employee Hosts

                                              Good to know your issues are getting more attention this time around. I found the post about the long load time and I see you have Chris Cox on the case (he is one of the top Photoshop engineers). I can't find the 4 GB temp file post, but I can tell you this: When you launch Photoshop, it create a temp file called the scratch disk. The size of the scratch disk is exactly equal to the Memory Usage setting (RAM allocation) in Preferences > Performance. If this setting is 4 GB, your scratch disk will be 4 GB.

                                              • 20. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                                gswetsky Community Member

                                                Brett N wrote:

                                                 

                                                Good to know your issues are getting more attention this time around. I found the post about the long load time and I see you have Chris Cox on the case (he is one of the top Photoshop engineers). I can't find the 4 GB temp file post, but I can tell you this: When you launch Photoshop, it create a temp file called the scratch disk. The size of the scratch disk is exactly equal to the Memory Usage setting (RAM allocation) in Preferences > Performance. If this setting is 4 GB, your scratch disk will be 4 GB.

                                                 

                                                     Brett, the bug is that you cannot tell Bridge or Photoshop to place the temp file on another drive.  My C drive is a 60Gb SSD w. about 12Gb free.  Everything else is supposed to be on my D drive.

                                                     I haven't re-enabled UAC, so I don't know if they ever fixed the bug about Bridge insisting on running as Administrator.

                                                 

                                                     One thing about me; if there's a bug to be discovered, you can count on me finding it - often with disastrous results.

                                                 

                                                Gerry

                                                • 21. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                                  Brett N Employee Hosts

                                                  In the same Preferences > Performance area, under Scratch Disks you can set which drives to use and their order of priority. If you want the scratch disk to be on the D: drive, simply put a checkmark in the D: drive and remove the check from C:. Or you can use the arrows to the right to move a drive up or down the list to change its priority. So if you still want to use the C: drive incase your D: drive becomes full (unlikely as it may be), you just move D: to the top of the list. Bridge doesn't have a scratch disk or temp files, but it does have a cache for the thumbnails produced. You can change the location of the cache by going to Preferences > Cache. Bridge shouldn't ask you to run itself as an administrator, but if you find that running it as an administrator helps it means the settings in the UAC are too strict. The UAC sets global permissions, running as administrator gives an application elevated permissions to help get around the UAC limitations.

                                                  • 22. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                                    gswetsky Community Member

                                                         Thanks, Brett.  Actually, my settings are exactly as you suggest.  The problem is Bridge and I guess Photoshop too, treat the temp file differently than the scratch file.  As far as I know, the scratch file is behaving exactly as advertised.

                                                     

                                                         There are apparently no controls for the temp file.  In about a year I should be able to find a 320Gb SSD that I can afford to replace bothe my present drives.  Until then......

                                                     

                                                    Gerry

                                                    • 23. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                                      Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                      Gerry, what are your TEMP and TMP environment variables set to?

                                                       

                                                      If they're still pointed at a subfolder of your user area on C:, you might consider creating a D:\TEMP folder and setting the value of both TEMP and TMP to:  D:\TEMP

                                                       

                                                      That might help instruct some programs to store their temporary data on D:.  I'm not sure whether Photoshop or Bridge will do so, but it's worth a shot.

                                                       

                                                      -Noel

                                                      • 24. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                                        gswetsky Community Member

                                                        Noel Carboni wrote:

                                                         

                                                        Gerry, what are your TEMP and TMP environment variables set to?

                                                         

                                                             D:\TEMPMAP\

                                                         

                                                             I'm pretty convinced by this time that Photoshop and/or Bridge place their temp files in C:\ irregardless of any other settings.  Too bad.....

                                                         

                                                        Gerry

                                                        • 25. Re: Ongoing Problem With CS6 Crop / Blur
                                                          Noel Carboni Community Member

                                                          And just to be absolutely certain...  Does your username, specifically, have Full Control permissions to the D:\TEMPMAP folder?  I may have asked this before in another thread, and if so I'm sorry for having lost track.

                                                           

                                                          -Noel