19 Replies Latest reply: Aug 13, 2012 1:47 PM by rperry jr RSS

    First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6

    jguadagni Community Member

      I am looking to buy a Dell PC to run Production Premium. I will be editing HD DSLR footage of my wedding using CS6. I want a system that will handle this media but do not want to go overboard highend. Here is what I found so far.

       

       

      BASEXPS 8500
      ChassisXPS 8500, Black Chassis w/19:1 media card reader
      PROCESSOR3rd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-3770 processor (up to 3.90 GHz)
      MONITORNo Monitor
      SPEAKERSNo speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)
      WIRELESSDell Wireless 1703 802.11b/g/n, Bluetooth v4.0+LE
      SOUND CARDIntegrated 7.1 with WAVE MAXXAudio 4
      USB 3.0Integrated 10/100/1000 Ethernet



      Optical SWNo PDVD
      Power CordUS Power Cord

       

      OPERATING SYSTEMWindows® 7 Home Premium, 64Bit, Englishedit




      edit
      MEMORY12GB Dual Channel DDR3 1600MHz - 4 DIMMsedit
      HARD DRIVE1TB 7200 RPM SATA Hard Drive 6.0 Gb/sedit
      VIDEO CARDAMD Radeon™ HD 7570 1GB GDDR5edit




      edit
      OPTICAL DRIVE16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW), write to CD/DVD

       

       

      TOTAL $899.99

       

       

       

       

       

      I am most concerned with the video card. I could upgrade to the cards below, but I know they still not be considered compatable for CUDA for Mercury Playback.

       


      NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 640 1GB GDDR5 [add $50.00]
      AMD Radeon™ HD 7770 2GB GDDR5 [add $150.00]

       

      I am thinking about just choosing the cheapest card offered, save money, and buy highend card separately.

       

      Am I on the right track with this system, or no where close?

        • 1. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
          Jeff Bellune ACP

          [Moved to Hardware Forum]

          • 2. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
            RjL190365 Community Member

            As equipped, you are nowhere close. 12GB total RAM is not enough for CS6. Heck, even 16GB is not quite enough for a desktop running CS6, especially if most of your video work involves downsizing HD to SD for DVD. The system needs all of 32GB of RAM just for it to perform anywhere close to fast.

             

            Second, none of the Radeon cards support GPU-accelerated Mercury Playback at all in Windows. You could "hack" a text file to enable CUDA GPU acceleration in MPE for the GT 640 - but why would you want to with this i7-3770/GT 640 combo? The GT 640 is actually slower with GPU acceleration than in software-only mode because it is such a weakling GPU: Tests proved that the retail DDR3 version of the GT 640 is slower than even a GTS 450, let alone a GTX 550 Ti. And even with GDDR5 memory, that GT 640 is no faster than a GTS 450.

             

            Third, as equipped that system has only one single hard drive. If you are also going to use the exact same hard drive for not only the OS and programs, but also for media, projects, previews, cache and exports, that will slow down the system performance significantly - sometimes to the point where overall performance is as slow as or slower than systems equipped with CPUs that are three generations old. This is because one SATA channel only allows data transfers in one direction at a time (due to its half-duplex nature), which means that a block of transfers in one direction must be completed before any transfers can commence in the opposite direction. However, editing and encoding require simultaneous bidirectional transfers, something that a single SATA connection does not allow at all. As such, you will need at least two more SATA hard drives (three or four more drives would be even better).

            • 3. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
              Harm Millaard Community Member

              I want a system that will handle this media but do not want to go overboard highend.

               

              This system is going the other direction, overboard lowend.

               

              If you want to follow Randall's suggestions, all of which are very valid, think outside the box and especially outside Dell boxes, unless you want to go overboard on the price. Dell steals you blind with everything you add or change, delivers crippled BIOS, does not allow overclocking and comes with a Dell PSU, that has non-standard dimensions.

               

              Think about building yourself if budget is important, otherwise go the custom builders like http://www.adkvideoediting.com/

               

              What you need is at least a quad core i7 with HT, 16 or better 32 GB RAM, a nVidia GTX 550 Ti or better a GTX 660+ video card and at least three separate 7200 RPM SATA disks, running under Win7 64 Pro.

               

              See Adobe Forums: What PC to build? An update...

              • 4. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                jguadagni Community Member

                I had feeling this is the response I was going to get. I am not opposed to building a PC. It would be my first go at it, but I would enjoy it. Is there any pre-built PC (workstations) that would get the job done, or building the best bet? I guess I better start getting a parts list together.

                • 5. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                  Harm Millaard Community Member

                  Is there any pre-built PC (workstations) that would get the job done, or building the best bet?

                   

                  The problem with the big name brands, Dell, Boxx, HP, Alienware is that they don't have any workstation ready to order for video editing. You need to configure yourself and if you do it with one of the big names, they all steal you blind.

                   

                  So the consequence is that you have to come up with a shortlist of components you need, that really is the first step, and then compare how much it is going to cost you if you build yourself and what it would cost you at a place like ADK to have those components installed in a ready to run system. Give Eric at ADK a call for some ideas.

                   

                  This is a different price range, but the ideas are the same: Adobe Forums: Planning / building a new system. Part 1

                  • 6. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                    John T Smith MVP

                    >any pre-built

                     

                    Click the ADK link that Harm provided

                    • 7. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                      jguadagni Community Member

                      Thanks for the wake up call. I went to the ADK site and talked with a rep and he put together a PC that he said is bare minium. The specs are below. Thoughts?

                       

                       

                      Review System Components

                      CaseZalman - Z9 Mid-tower case. 3x 5.25, 6x 3.5, 1 2.5 drive bays.

                      Power SupplyCorsair - CX600: 600W 80% Plus

                      MotherboardADK - Z77 D3H 2x 16X PCIe, 2PCIe 1x, 2 PCI, dual channnel DDR3 1600, no firewire,

                      ProcessorIntel - Core i7 3770 IVB 3.5GHz Quad 8 meg cache with HT

                      CPU CoolingScythe - Shuriken Rev.B Quiet Low Profile CPU Cooler

                      Case Cooling Included quiet case fan

                      Memory16gig (4x4GB) DDR3 1600 LV Lifetime warranty.

                      Operating SystemMicrosoft - Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. 16 gig ram max Recovery SoftwareParagon Backup & Recovery 11 Suite with ADK recovery DVD. OS/Programs DriveSEAGATE - 500G 16Meg Sata 600 1 yr warranty ST500DM002 Source/Media Drive(s) SEAGATE - 1TB Sata 600 64meg cache 1 yr warranty ST1000DM003

                      Export Drive(s)None

                      Internal StorageNone

                      Removable MediaNone

                      External Raidnone

                      Raid ControllerNone

                      DVD-RW/BDR22X DVD-RW Dual Layer, with software.

                      Dual/Quad Head VideoGT 630 2GB DDR3

                      Capture Device/Previewnone

                      LCD MonitorAsus - VE228H 21.5" LED LCD Monitor 1920 x 1080 - 16.7 Million Colors - 250 Nit -

                      Card ReaderUSB 3.0 Flash Card Reader/Writer

                      NICIncluded wired not wireless

                      KeyboardsNone

                      WarrantyStandard 1 yr Parts and Labor Lifetime Tech Support

                      Power ProtectionNone

                      Pro Audio Interfacenone

                      Studio MonitorsNone

                      Audio SoftwareNONE

                      NLE Software NONE

                      Effects Software NONE

                      Video Editing Workstation
                      i7 HDV
                      Price: $1,873.00
                      Description:Affordable yet powerful system for beginner and home Editing use. Powerful enough to run full versions of the latest NLE software.

                       

                      • 8. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                        John T Smith MVP

                        If you ever decide you want more than 16Gig Ram you can't... you need Win7 64bit PRO for more than 16Gig

                         

                        If you ever decide you want more Ram, or especially a 3rd and/or 4th hard drive, a 600w PS "may" be a bit small

                         

                        If your case has a spot for a side fan, to blow outside air onto the motherboard and nVidia card... add it

                         

                        Otherwise, as a "minimum" system... looks OK to me

                        • 9. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                          jguadagni Community Member

                          What kind of problems/limitations do you think I might possibly run into with this system running PPCS6 with HD DSLR footage? What you say would/should be the next upgrade, video card or another drive? I could upgrade to GTX 560 for another $148.00

                          • 10. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                            Peru Bob MVP

                            Definitely upgrade the video card.  96 CUDA cores vs. 336 CUDA cores.

                            • 11. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                              Harm Millaard Community Member

                              Plus DDR5 instead of DDR3. The 560 and especially the Ti version are much faster than the 630. I second Bob.

                               

                              If you think you need more power in this system you will need more disks, but I would first see how it works. I would not be surprised that you find more disks not a necessity, but a luxury.

                              • 12. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                                RjL190365 Community Member

                                Plus DDR5 instead of DDR3. The 560 and especially the Ti version are much faster than the 630. I second Bob.

                                I agree there. In fact, as I have noted a couple of times, the GT 630 is actually a renamed GT 440. And even the DDR5 version of the GT 440 is slower than the retail GT 640 (which itself is slower than even a GTS 450, let alone a GTX 550 Ti).

                                • 13. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                                  jguadagni Community Member

                                  ok thanks. I think I will go for the upgrade and get the GeForce GTX 560 Graphics Card - 850 MHz Core - 1 GB GDDR5 SDRAM - PCI Expre for another $148

                                  • 14. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                                    jguadagni Community Member

                                    Ok, I found a local company in PIttsburgh that does custom builds and it will avoid me paying any shipping. They seem to favor AMD products heavily, and are trying to steer me towards an AMD Fx CPU and an AMD GPU. I refuse to do the AMD GPU, and I am set on the GTX 560 (maybe GTX 550 ti ). From what I have read about AMD CPU's they are no longer competive with Intel. Should I stick with Intel i7 3770k, or is there a AMD FX that is compareable at a more reasonable price? Also, between the two quotes (other listed above) is there anything else between the two that sticks out? Thanks

                                     

                                    Here is the new quote I got.

                                     

                                     

                                    THERMALTAKE V3 BLACK MIDTOWER WITH TOOLESS DRIVE DESIGN, 1 x 120MM FAN INSTALLED, MESH

                                    FRONT BEZEL

                                     

                                     

                                    PS-THE-TRX-750M THERMALTAKE TR2 RX 750W WITH MODULAR CABLE MANAGEMENT

                                     

                                     

                                    GIGABYTE SKT 1155 Z77X-UD3; INTEL Z77 EXPRESS; 4xDDR3 1333/1066; 3xPCIe 16X, 3xPCIe 1X, 1xPCI;

                                     

                                     

                                    VID, 8CH, GbE, 6xUSB3.0, 4xSATA2, 2xSATA3; 3YR MFG

                                     

                                     

                                    INTEL SKT 1155 CORE I7-3770K QUAD CORE, 3.5GHz, 8MB L3, 77W;RETAIL, 3YR MFG

                                     

                                     

                                    4 x BALLISTIX BY CRUCIAL 1600MHz (PC12800) 4G DDR3

                                     

                                     

                                    SEAGATE 3.5in ST1000DM003 BARRACUDA SATA 6.0Gb/s 1000GB (1TB) 7200RPM 64MB CACHE

                                     

                                     

                                    SEAGATE 3.5in ST500DM002 BARRACUDA 7200.12 SATA 6.0Gb/s 500GB 7200RPM 16MB CACHE

                                     

                                     

                                    LG DUAL LAYER GH24NS 24X SATA DVDRW

                                     

                                     

                                    INTERNAL, 3.5" PCI-E TO USB 3.0 & ALL IN ONE CARD READER, PCIe 1X INTERFACE TO USB 3.0 + USB 2.0

                                     

                                     

                                    CARD READER; BLACK BEZEL

                                     

                                     

                                    ASUS NVIDIA GTX 550 TI DIRECTCU 1GB GDDR5 PCI-E VIDEO CARD; DUAL-LINK DVI, HDMI & D-SUB

                                     

                                     

                                    MICROSOFT WINDOWS 7 HOME PREMIUM 64BIT DVD EDITION SOFTWARE; OEM

                                     

                                     

                                    ACER G235HAB 23in WIDESCREEN LCD MONITOR, BLACK, 1920x1080, 60000:1 DCR, 5MS, DVI & D-SUB;

                                     

                                     

                                    STANDARD 1 YEAR WARRANTY ON ALL CUSTOM PC BUILDS

                                     

                                    (FREE SHIPPING $1750)

                                    • 15. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                                      Harm Millaard Community Member

                                      Ok, I found a local company in PIttsburgh that does custom builds and it will avoid me paying any shipping. They seem to favor AMD products heavily, and are trying to steer me towards an AMD Fx CPU and an AMD GPU.

                                       

                                      A company that does not know sh*t about video editing and are trying to steer you towards AMD is only looking at a custom build that gives them the biggest margin, not what serves you best for your purposes. Well, you get what you pay for, but saving on transport cost will be more than compensated by the lousy service they can offer, if at all. At ADK you know you get the best system for your purposes and great service from people who know video editing, have extensive experience with Adobe software, so they really know what they are talking about.

                                       

                                      Personally I would not trust that local company to do any decent job. As a test ask them how they will setup your video. I bet they don't even know that you have to disable the Intel graphics in the Bios for proper operation of PR.

                                      • 16. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                                        Bill Gehrke MVP

                                        I completely echo Harm's comments

                                         

                                        Also you have a terrible mismatch with the basic system and the graphics card.  With that CPU and 16 GB of RAM that 192 CUDA core GTX 550 Ti is useless  With my PPBM5 testing with an i7-2600K at 4.4 GHz ,16 GB RAM, system it took 146 seconds to perform the our MPEG2-DVD encoding test with the GPU and not using the GPU (CPU only) it took 111 seconds.  You need at least the GTX 560 Ti or better.to balance performance.

                                        • 17. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                                          jguadagni Community Member

                                          Bill - could you elaborate more on what you mean about a mismatch. From your example it sounds like your saying the CPU is powerful enought (or too powerful) that I would not benefit from the GTX 550 ti? If that's the case should I look at  i5 - ****k.  I got a reply on another forum that put a parts list together with i5-3570k, and said to just use the integrated HD 4000 graphics. The full list is below. 

                                           

                                          Mobo: $90 B75/Z77 or similar

                                          CPU: $220 i5-3570K

                                          RAM: $50 8GB (2x4GB) 1600MHz CL9 1.5V DDR3 (G.Skill, Corsair, Kingston, Mushkin, Crucial)

                                          PSU: (depends on how much you game) $25 Corsair CX430 V2 (stick to Antec, Corsair, Seasonic, & XFX ONLY!!!)

                                          SSD: $85 Samsung 830 128GB (or $150 for 240GB drives)--install your OS (Windows 7 64) to this machine

                                          HDD: $70 1TB Drive on Newegg.com sale

                                          DVD: $18 Any will do

                                          Case: $60 w/ decent cooling & front panel USB 3.0

                                          • 18. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                                            RjL190365 Community Member

                                            I would not recommend such a CPU downgrade because the i5 that you listed lacks Hyperthreading, and is thus limited to four threads maximum. And because Premiere performs better with more CPU threads, the downgrade from an i7-3770K to an i5-3570K would have slowed down everything by a factor of around 20 percent although the MPEG-2 DVD encoding performance with GPU acceleration enabled would not have suffered as much. The downgrade to an i5 would have made the GTX 550 Ti more balanced with the CPU but everything else would have been around 20 percent slower. That's significant, in my view.

                                             

                                            Also, the integrated Intel graphics cannot utilize GPU acceleration in MPE at all. Therefore, rendering and MPEG encoding performance falls back entirely onto the CPU.

                                            • 19. Re: First high performance PC buy..thoughts for CS6
                                              rperry jr

                                              I just had a complete computer system built in November 2011  by ADK for me. Many people suggested them to me from these forums and other forums. I spoke with Eric at ADK a few times for his advice on what I would need in a new system for the type of video work i do ..After he heard of what I did he recommended less cost hardware stating if I got what I wanted it would be way over kill at a large increase in cost.The system I purchased from them is simply excellent.Quiet , yet powerful. I am editing , with effects, avchd footage with absolutely no problems.I purchased Adobe Production suite at an excellent price ..ADK installed all the software and optimized all programs and settings .A Source and Render array of 2 -1tb each hard drives and a 1tb system drive ..all professionaly set up.I highly recommend anyone getting a new system to talk with Eric at ADK and purchase a system from them.They know NLE system builds in every aspect.You can't go wrong.Specify what work you want to do with your system and they will build it .

                                              The previous paragraph was written a few months ago ...what follows is a brief update.After lots of work ..and play on this computer system I can state with much sincerity that ADK is the absolute best company in making video - photo  editing computer systems.

                                              Eric is simply the best and all those that made my wonderful machine are hereby thanked . Incredibly quiet, powerful and fast

                                              Between ADK and Harm Millard you can't find more knownledgable and helpful people.

                                              Trust ADK.

                                              Sincerely , Ray Perry