30 Replies Latest reply: Aug 6, 2012 2:29 PM by Jacob Bugge RSS

    Line size changes when using Rotate??

    Kar209 Community Member

      Hello:                                                                           Level: Newbie OS: Windows 7 64bit

       

      So, I have been using the Line tool and then Grouping two Lines and then using the Object > Transform > Rotate

       

      The lines I draw are 0px wide and 22px high but when I Rotate them around the circle the Line sizes change ... ??

       

      Say the two lines are Grouped and the first set is 276px the next set becomes say 276.346 and then 275.582 and 198.682 and so on ...

       

      I have gone into the Tranform pallette to see if there is something I should be checking but it doesn't seem as though I am missing anything to the best of my (limited) knowledge.

       

      I have also tried the manual and looked for something like: "why line size would change on rotate" and I've looked under Transform and Rotate but I haven't had any luck.

       

      As always ... Thank you so much for your time

        • 1. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
          Jacob Bugge MVP

          Kara,

           

          The lines I draw are 0px wide and 22px high

           

          Paths made with the Line Tool have a Stroke Weight and a length. Do you mean that this is a vertical nostroke path 22pt/px long?

           

          Say the two lines are Grouped and the first set is 276px

           

          Are the paths 276 px apart?

           

          To avoid more silly questions, you may post an image. You can upload it to a website and post a link or post it using the Insert Image button which looks like a camera. A screenshot may be even better.

           

          In either case, preferably a set showing the original pair and the following htree rotated pairs. You may move copies (Object>Transform>Move pressing Copy, then using Ctrl+D to repeat the copymoving every time you have rotated).

          • 2. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
            Kar209 Community Member

            hi Jacob

             

            Sorry to just get back ~ had to run an errand

             

            Any way, sorry for not posting the right info ...

             

            Yes, it's a Vertical Line. So, I set the Height to 22px and I noticed the Width box said 0px

             

            And yes, when the two lines are Grouped the Height box says 276

             

            So, after grouping I go to Object > Transform > Rotate and set it to 20 degrees > Copy > Crtl + D

             

            However, as I go around the compass house/circle the Height changes and a Width is added.

             

            My Screen Shot key is not functioning.

             

            I am going to go give it an other go as I deleted everything/all the layers. I'll save images as I go and return to post pictures.

             

            Thank you

            • 3. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
              [scott] Community Member

              What you are reading is the width and height of the area the path encompasses.

               

              Think about the hand of a clock. When it's at 12 it's thin and vertical. When it's at 1 it takes up far more space horizontally than it did at 12.

               

              You are reading the area covered by the path, not the actual path dimensions.

               

              Basically, the numbers you are reading reflect the pink boxes in this screen shot:

               

              Snap_001.jpg

              The area needed to draw the shape, not the dimensions of the shape itself.

              • 4. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                Kar209 Community Member

                OMG! duh! I can't believe I didn't consider that.

                 

                Good grief ... I usually overthink things ... seems I didn't think that one out at all

                 

                I can't stop blushing. lol

                • 5. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                  Jacob Bugge MVP

                  Kara,

                   

                  But there is something rather strange about the figures.

                   

                  The 276.346px should not apply to a set that is 276px high and (slightly) rotated, unless you have Edit>Use Preview Bounds on, and if you have, the original width should be equal to the Stroke Weight and not 0.

                   

                  That strangeness fooled me and made me ask those questions and suggest an image/screenshot, to see whether the figues might fit something less straightforward.

                   

                  What Scott shows in post #2 are not simple straight paths made with the Line Tool, but either rounded/closed/filled paths, or straight paths with varying widths applying Edit>Use Preview Bounds.

                  • 6. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                    Kar209 Community Member

                    uhhhh just when i thought is was safe to go back into the water ... lol ...

                     

                    okay, well i just got home and i'm about to start on that dang compass again.

                     

                    wish my screen shot worked ~ dunno why but none of my F keys work either.

                     

                    any way, i'll save pics at various steps and keep track of what the height and width boxes say.

                     

                    i had actually thought, after responding to scott, that if that was correct to my situation then how come when i use the selection tool

                     

                    to click on the line the paths don't show up in that manner. all paths seem the same shape no matter what the height box says.

                     

                    any way, off to redo that darn tut again.

                     

                    thank you!

                     

                    ps. the Preview Bounds is not on and has not been on

                     

                    pps. so, i was just making the lines again ... yes, using the Line tool i draw a 22px high line then i use the transform > rotate > by 20 degrees > hit copy > ctrl + d all the way around

                     

                    so, i ungroup the lines the first line stays at ... X: 252.5px Y: 126px  W: 0px H: 22px

                     

                    BUT the copy to the left reads ... X 210.603  Y: 133.388  W: 7.525px  H: 20.674px

                     

                    it's mind boggle'n to me and quite noticable after the 9th copy.

                     

                    in Photoshop I use Duplicates and not Copies because (for whatever reason unknown to me) i have read that a copy of something changes ... so the Duplicate process in PS (if i recall correctly) that the Duplicate flattens the image so it doesn't change. ... ??

                     

                    thoughts ... ??

                    • 7. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                      Jacob Bugge MVP

                      Kara,

                       

                      I can see that you are testing our vigilance.

                       

                      so, i ungroup the lines the first line stays at ... X: 252.5px Y: 126px  W: 0px H: 22px

                       

                      BUT the copy to the left reads ... X 210.603  Y: 133.388  W: 7.525px  H: 20.674px

                       

                      Those figures match each other perfectly, but not with the group as mentioned in the OP, see the red emphasis:

                       

                      The lines I draw are 0px wide and 22px high but when I Rotate them around the circle the Line sizes change ... ??

                       

                      Say the two lines are Grouped and the first set is 276px the next set becomes say 276.346 and then 275.582 and 198.682 and so on ...

                       

                      The Bounding Box (BB) of a vertical 22px line is 0px by 22px and when you rotate it by 20 degrees, the BB becomes 7.525px by 20.674px; the sum of the squares is 22px and the quotient is is the tangens of 20 degrees. So far so good.

                       

                      And if you rotate a pair of them, the centre of the top one moves from X = 252.5px Y = 126px to X = 210.603px Y = 133.388 as you state, but only if the total height of the unrotated pair (and its BB) is 267px.

                       

                      So to throw us off the scent you have swapped the digits 6 and 7, to go from 267 to 276. Very cunning.

                       

                      The figures in blue still appear rather impossible. Maybe that is owing to some inaccuracy, or it is just another trap.

                       

                      Edit: By the way, the figures gave you away: you have CS5 or CS6.

                      • 8. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                        Kar209 Community Member

                        OMG! LMAO!! I am literally laughing my _ _ _ off!!

                         

                        Sooo Sorry, did i forget to mention that I am dyslexic?? wasn't trying to be cunning ... lol

                         

                        Also, and ... Pleeeeease Forgive Me for this ... I didn't take into account that you would actually check the 276.346 ... etc. in my first post ... thought I had mentioned those were just "examples" ... seems It didn't make it from my head to the keyboard to the post

                         

                        I just pulled those number outta that thing I'm laughing off ... and now between the tears of laughter I am feeling Super Bad for not considering that those numbers would matter all that much ... I swear ... I'm not usually this numb!

                         

                        So, I spoke to someone at Adobe today and it seems as though I am not Aligning things correctly.

                         

                        I'm just getting back home again and I'm going to give the tut a go again.

                         

                        I'm using CS6 .... have I also mentioned this is my first Illustrator attempt?

                         

                        Below is the compass I made in two days ... it's missing the last two steps. I'm also stuck on that dang "Glossy" thing but hey, that's an other post for me to lead you all astray on

                         

                        My head has been a bit in the clouds this past week ... so,  I am sorry for that and certainly do Very Much Appreciate Your Amazing Vigilance w/All My Heart!!

                         

                        I just cannot give up. I'm not a quitter. I believe I ought to brush up on my (p. poor) math skills as well as sitting down to read the manual front and back before an other tut attempt.

                         

                        Thank you again for Everything!! I'll be back to let you know how it goes.

                         

                        The inner circles and increments don't look right to me

                         

                        Compass-Undone-2.png

                        • 9. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                          Kar209 Community Member

                          Well, they guy at Adobe wasn't the help I thought he had been. Sure guides are great but they aren't solving my problem. Bummer

                          • 10. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                            Jacob Bugge MVP

                            Kara,

                             

                            I'm using CS6 ....

                             

                            The X and Y values said at least CS5.

                             

                            .... have I also mentioned this is my first Illustrator attempt?

                             

                            No. Welcome aboard.

                             

                            You did not drop the compass on the floor by any chance?

                             

                            The circles and increments seem to be all right, but the central part is is above centre and slightly to the left, a few angles are wrong, and some of the quarters are a bit off:

                             

                            The centre of the compass needle is above centre and slightly to the left, and the compass rose is even a bit further up.

                             

                            The SE/NW and SW/NE directions are closer to S/N than to E/W (too little rotation from S/N or too much from E/W).

                             

                            NE, N, NW, and W, look about right, but E, SE, S, and SW, seem to be too high and to the left.

                             

                            You can see the different distances between the circle(s) and the central parts, and how the needle and especially the directions point wrongly at the angle markings.

                             

                            Edit: Presumably, Guides are Smart Guides, and those are (often) your friends, but they can only help you some of the way.

                             

                            I believe you are right in that alignment is key to the issue(s).

                            • 11. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                              Kar209 Community Member

                              Thank you again.

                               

                              Yes, I realize that my little ole compass is a complete and total mess.

                               

                              I somehow managed to group everything too soon and was unable to ungroup.

                               

                              As far as me having CS5 it doesn't make any sense whatsoever because I just got the Creative Cloud and all the apps I got Should be CS6.

                               

                              Guess I am off to call Adobe again. ARG!

                               

                              I'll be trying the compass again at a later point but for now I must move on to other time sensitive projects.

                               

                              But I'll be back to post my progress.

                               

                              Thanx again so very much!!

                               

                              ps. I just looked under Help > About Illustrator and it says CS6 ... ???

                               

                              Are you just trying to get back at me for all the confusion I inadvertently caused?? LOL

                               

                              Also, it seems I should brush up on Trig ... huh?

                              • 12. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                Jacob Bugge MVP

                                You are welcome, Kara.

                                 

                                No getting back. What I meant with The X and Y values said at least CS5 was just that I could see from the X and Y values that it was either CS5 or CS6.

                                • 13. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                  Kar209 Community Member

                                  Ohh okay LOL re: the cs5/6 thing

                                   

                                  dang, i think i need a bit of a vacation

                                   

                                  c u around as i am certain i'll be back all too often

                                   

                                  all my best, Kara

                                  • 14. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                    Kar209 Community Member

                                    ps. was just teasing bout the getting back thing

                                    • 15. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                      Jacob Bugge MVP

                                      Kara,

                                       

                                      I shall look forward to it.

                                       

                                      ps. was just teasing bout the getting back thing

                                       

                                      I believe you.

                                       

                                      I am less convinced about the cunning thing. But challenges are appreciated here.

                                      • 16. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                        JETalmage Community Member

                                        ...as well as sitting down to read the manual front and back before an other tut attempt...

                                        Now you're getting it.

                                         

                                        Kara,

                                        Someone needs to say it: Illustrator "tutorials" are all over the web. The majority of them are written by intermediate (at best) users who just want to be considered "experts." Most often, they are poorly written, failing to even consistently use the terminology of the program's user interface. Proportionally few demonstrate best-practice methodology. The end result is a confused state of the blind leading the blind.

                                         

                                        You would be far better off reading and actually working through the official documentation than trying to learn a program like this through ad hoc, random-subject "tutorials". At least the documentation has some measure of methodical organizational scheme and heirarchal progression to it that doesn't try to put the learning horse before the cart. It's just like anything else; you can't shortcut walking in eagerness to run.

                                         

                                        JET

                                        • 17. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                          Kar209 Community Member

                                          Hello Jet

                                           

                                          Thank you so much for your response. Yes, frustratingly so I have learned the hard way that indeed the tuts I have found are much more ... no, Exactly like the blind leading the blind!

                                           

                                          I have always had the problem of wanting to run before I walk. Actually, I did as a kid! lol. My parents said my first steps were actually an attempt to run. (Just think that's funny)

                                           

                                          So, I have grown tired of the 1/2 A**'ed tuts I keep finding. I have been feeling MUCH better with slowing down and reading the manual.

                                           

                                          But, I am sure I'll still try a tut here & there. However, I'll read through the entire tut first and when I come across a term or tool I don't know then I will go read the manual before starting.

                                           

                                          Thank you!!

                                           

                                          Kara

                                          • 18. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                            Kar209 Community Member

                                            Jacob ...

                                             

                                            You're too funny! Thank you for making me laugh through the stress of this tut

                                             

                                             

                                            Again ... you're killing me here ... lol ... Really wasn't trying to "toss you off the track"!!

                                             

                                            But hey, believe me or not ... I'm thankful you appreciate a challenge ... cuz, I'm certain I'll bring more

                                             

                                            Hope all is well with you.

                                            • 19. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                              Jacob Bugge MVP

                                              All is well here, and thank you for your kind words.

                                               

                                              It is close to midnight over here, as usual; presumably broad daylight over there.

                                              • 20. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                                Kar209 Community Member

                                                Hi Jacob

                                                 

                                                So, you're across the pond?

                                                 

                                                I'm in Maine

                                                 

                                                Where about are you?

                                                • 21. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                                  Jacob Bugge MVP

                                                  Kara,

                                                   

                                                  Presently, I am a bit (too far) east of Aidenfield.

                                                  • 22. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                                    Kar209 Community Member

                                                    Hey Jacob,

                                                     

                                                    Is that in the UK? Outside of Yorkshire?

                                                     

                                                    Any way, hope all is well

                                                     

                                                    Here's the final compass. I had to eye things out as the info Illy provided wasn't accurate.

                                                     

                                                    GC-MS-380.png

                                                    • 23. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                                      Jacob Bugge MVP

                                                      Kara,

                                                       

                                                      We really should try to get the (lack of) accuracy issue sorted.

                                                       

                                                      I will have another look at the thread(s) and ponder over it.

                                                       

                                                      Alas, over the next water(s).

                                                      • 24. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                                        Jacob Bugge MVP

                                                        Kara,

                                                         

                                                        Without having reread everything concerning the lack of accuracy across threads, just a few questions to follow up some (im)possible leads (no more said about Align to Pixel Grid and Y axis direction):

                                                         

                                                        1) Do you have Edit>Preferences>General>Use Preview Bounds ticked? If so, you may try with it unticked.

                                                         

                                                        2) Do you have any other applications running, especially the usual suspects listed in Item 7 in Other options? If so (this may seem to be a rather silly question), you may try to close everything else down (some are troublesome enough to cause trouble even when closed and have to be uninstalled, but that is an even longer shot) and see whether it helps.

                                                         

                                                        3) Have you tried to Move the folder? This is a reversible way of getting rid of many of the potentially troublesome preferencess; you can always move them back instead of losing them needlessly.

                                                         

                                                        4) We do not want to go there.

                                                        • 25. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                                          Kar209 Community Member

                                                          hey AJ (awesome Jacob)

                                                           

                                                          so ... let's see ....

                                                           

                                                          1. Nope the Use Preview Bounds is not ticked

                                                           

                                                          2. Nope already went through that whole close everything thing while run'n Illy or Ps

                                                           

                                                          3. Did "try" Move the Folder (try being the operative word here ~ as I'n uncertain I moved it correctly ~ as I'm ever so slightly computer Retarded)

                                                           

                                                          4. However, I will check out the list in the Other options to make sure I got em all covered

                                                           

                                                          5. So, Adobe, when I've called them for help have reset my preferences many times but it never resolved anything. And I lost all the Styles, Fonts, Brushes etc. that took me forever to find and install.

                                                           

                                                          6. So, where exactly where don't we want to go?

                                                           

                                                          Hope all is well

                                                          • 26. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                                            Jacob Bugge MVP

                                                            Kara,

                                                             

                                                            5) The loss of carefully built niceties by simple deletion of preferences is the reason for my (always) suggesting your moving the lot, because you can move it back.

                                                             

                                                            6) The Uninstall, Cleaner Tool, Reinstall. But since you have lost all the niceties already, it may be worth going there.

                                                             

                                                            http://www.adobe.com/support/contact/cscleanertool.html

                                                             

                                                            The Cleaner Tool is crucial because it (at least supposedly) takes care of all the hidden underworld thingies.

                                                             

                                                            All is well.

                                                            • 27. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                                              Kar209 Community Member

                                                              Jacob,

                                                               

                                                              Thank you for your patience and for sharing your experiences with me. I will go through everything you've shared here with me and then let you know how it works out.

                                                               

                                                              It blows my mind how much there is to learn.

                                                               

                                                              I dunno what I'd do without this forum and all your help.

                                                               

                                                              Again, thanx a zillion!!

                                                              • 28. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                                                Jacob Bugge MVP

                                                                You are welcome, Kara, and good luck.

                                                                 

                                                                You should know that your findings may be important for anyone with similar issues most of all, and for everyone here, helping to build the common knowledgebase.

                                                                • 29. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                                                  Kar209 Community Member

                                                                  "AJ"

                                                                   

                                                                  Thank you for that ... I feel better about coming here so much.

                                                                   

                                                                  I do try the FAQ's, the manual and I scan through questions already asked. The latter often proves to be outdated info.

                                                                   

                                                                  I do hope my issues will help others currently or down the line. That's why I make certain to come back again and again until my issue/s is/are resolved.

                                                                   

                                                                  It's frustrating to find a thread with a question I too need the answer only to find it wasn't resolved.

                                                                   

                                                                  You're an amazing person and I am so glad we've "met" People that take time from their busy lives to share and help others are the Best Kind of people!!

                                                                   

                                                                  TY!

                                                                  • 30. Re: Line size changes when using Rotate??
                                                                    Jacob Bugge MVP

                                                                    It is really a pleasure, Kara.