13 Replies Latest reply: Aug 6, 2012 7:11 AM by davehaigh RSS

    Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document

    davehaigh

      I am placing a word document which contains cross references to headers and captions/figures within the document. They seem to be fine and function correctly in the Word document, however, after I place this word doc into my InDesign doc, I take a look at the cross references panel and notice that the cross references have been corrupted. It is wrapping the wrong portions of text from the cross reference destinations. See screenshot for a visual of how the cross references are malformed. For example the 7th cross reference in the list should say Framework Details, not "Framework Detai

       

      InDesign Cross References Panel - showing malformed bits of text

      CrossRef-Panel.JPG

      Another visual of this issue can be seen if I view the text frame in Story Editor view, see below. You can see that the cross reference source tags (blue arrow like symbols) are wrapped around the wrong portions of text. The blue tags shoud be wrapped around Framework Details and 52

       

      InDesign Story Editor

      ID-StoryEditor-CrossRef.JPG

       

       

      You can see below as to why I think the cross references are fine in the Word doc, you can see the same cross reference I used in the example above in the word doc and it is wrapping the correct portion of text:

       

      Word - showing cross reference is formed corerctly

      Word-CrossRef.JPG

      Why is this not being maintained after placing this file into InDesign?

       

      Also I am not performing any cross reference updates after I import, this problem occurs immediately after the place of the doc.

       

      Why would InDesign be having difficulty in importing these cross references? I have set up a simple test Word document with cross references to headers and figures in and they have imported fine. What could be wrong with this other particular word doc that would be causing this "corruption" of cross references? This is not only causing my cross references to break visually and lack the update capability but also I cannot export the InDesign doc to an ePub as it keeps crashing. I believe from my reading on the web that if there is only one broken cross reference source i.e. the cross reference destination that it is trying to link to is missing, then the export to epub will fail. So this is causing a massive headache for me at the minute.

       

      Is there anything I could be looking at in the Word doc to try and figure out why the porblem is occuring in the first place?

       

      If anyone has any tips or a possible solution to this I would really appreciate it. Even better if someone knows the reason why this is happening I can tackle it from the source and prevent it happening time and time again.

       

      Thanks, Dave

        • 1. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
          P Spier CommunityMVP

          What version of ID, and what format are you saving in Word?

          • 2. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
            davehaigh Community Member

            I am using InDesign CS5.5, the Word Document has been saved out of Microsoft Word 2010 as type Word Document (*.docx)

             

            Also: If of any use, when clicking "Help > About InDesign..." it says that the InDesign version is 7.5.3

            • 3. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
              P Spier CommunityMVP

              Try saving as .doc and see if it makes a difference.

              • 4. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
                davehaigh Community Member

                I saved the word .docx file out as a .doc. I placed this into my InDesign file and I still get corrupted cross references. Except that this time only one reference is appearing in the cross ref panel. Also, the blue markers are appearing in story editor view wrapping the wrong portions of text again but they have shifted around slightly. This brings up another related question., If there are cross reference source markers visible in the story editor, then why are these not appearing in the cross reference panel?

                 

                See screenshots below:

                 

                Cross ref panel after placing .doc file

                Panel-ID.JPG

                 

                Story Editor after placing .doc file

                ID-StoryEditor_CrossRef.JPG

                • 5. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
                  P Spier CommunityMVP

                  I've never tried palcing a Word file with cross-refs, so I'm a bit beyond my comfort level. Word Import can be very flakey, though.

                   

                  Presumably you don't have un-accepted tracked changes? Those cause huge headaches. Sometimes RTF works when the native Word formats fail, but I don't recall that RTF supports cross-refs so that may not help. Can you backsave to Word 2000 .doc?

                   

                  Jongware may drop by with some other ideas. I suspect he would suggest that if you have CS3 or CS4 you place the file in that version, then export as tagged text and import that into CS5.

                  • 6. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
                    davehaigh Community Member

                    I dont have the option to save the word file as type Word 2000 .doc, only, Word 97-2003 Document (*.doc) which I tried previously.

                     

                    Could you ellaborate a little more please on "Presumably you don't have un-accepted tracked changes?". I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this.

                    • 7. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
                      P Spier CommunityMVP

                      Tracking changes is an option in Word that allows various users to make changes which can then be accepted or rejected by a responsible party.  Should be in the Tools menu in Word.

                      • 8. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
                        davehaigh Community Member

                        Hi Peter.

                         

                        The Word Doc has no outstanding changes, I chose the Accept all changes option anyway, saved a .doc and .docx version out, then imported each of these. Each one had the same result as previous. I have tried importing them into a completely different InDesign doc too (Ctrl+N), and get the same corrupted cross references.

                         

                        I have also tried, selecting all of the content and updating all cross references with F9. Then tried importing this version into InDesign. Same problem.

                         

                        I have also deleted the table of contents and index page from the Word doc, in order to see if these were affecting it, same problem after placing into InDesign.

                        • 9. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
                          P Spier CommunityMVP

                          I'm still hoping Jongware will pop in. He has a lot more experience with this kind of problem.

                          • 10. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
                            [Jongware] CommunityMVP

                            Only bad experiences, Peter ...

                             

                            I've seen this character shifting before on numerous occasions, both with cross references and with hyperlinks. (It's especially funny with hyperlinks, 'cause you can see that the outline box shifts one character at a time per each next link...)

                             

                            The thing is it's not just limited to hyperlinks and cross refs. Dave's screenshot doesn't show bold, italics, or other local formatting, but it's a fair bet these are off by a couple of characters as well.

                             

                            Dave's experiment of making a "minimal" Word document to confirm it's a persistent bug didn't work. I found the same thing: either a document comes in fine, or everything is foo-bar right from the start. There must be some internal Word code that InDesign forgets to count as 'a character position'. Without delving into the Word file with some very advanced tools, it's anyone's guess what code that would be.

                             

                            I can only offer the one solution that works for me: in Word, remove all hyperlinks (which is what Word uses for internal links as well as for external ones) and convert all cross-references to text. Then, if the file finally imports fine, re-build them in InDesign. It's a cumbersome workaround, but slightly better (only just) than checking each reference, delete, rebuild, check next -- etc. (And with that the chance that your other text attributes are also off.)

                            • 11. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
                              davehaigh Community Member

                              Thanks Jongware, that's a workaround i'm hoping to avoid. I want all of the content and referenes to be defined in the Word doc (if I can fix the issue) and then do only minimal changes in the InDesign doc. I'll keep looking into the possible cause.

                               

                              I had a theory.

                               

                              Basically, there are custom bullets defined in the Word Doc which are based on a font called "Symbol". On placing the doc into InDesign, InDesign complains that it is missing a font called "Symbol Bold" and I choose the option to substitute it. I thought that the substituted font might have affected the way that the characters render in some way, which causes the cross reference markers to shift.

                               

                              I tried removing the reference to Symbol Bold from the word doc and placing this new doc into indesign. I no longer received the message that Symbol Bold isnt available so didnt need to subsitute it. However I still had the problem with the broken cross references. So doesnt seem that this is the cause.

                               

                              Have you any other theories or tests I could try?

                              • 12. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
                                [Jongware] CommunityMVP

                                davehaigh wrote:

                                 

                                Have you any other theories or tests I could try?

                                 

                                No, my single theory is the "some Word code that's not counted in InDesign" one, based solely on my observations of the shifting stuff.

                                 

                                Maybe you could repeat your experiments with saving your doc as RTF ("Rich Text Format"), which, despite its history and name, is just a plain Word document (read: "All Crap Included™") but written out in human readable form. So if you can locate a paragraph in which your cross-reference is okay, and one where it is not, there logically must be something in between that InDesign ignores but Word does not.

                                 

                                Note that most likely, even if you find the problem, you cannot "do" anything about it. The only thing you can do with this information, is pass it on to Adobe in a Bug Report. But don't hold your breath; I have reported this, and similar issues, for several different versions of ID, and It Only Got Worse with every new release.

                                • 13. Re: Cross references corrupted after placing Word document into an InDesign document
                                  davehaigh Community Member

                                  I had another theory. Maybe InDesign can't handle the index markers that are littered throughout the Word doc and this causes the shift.

                                   

                                  I did a find replace on all index markers in the Word doc, effectively deleting them.

                                   

                                  I then imported the Word doc into InDesign and the cross references seem to be ok! See screenshots.

                                   

                                  So, now it seems that I can't generate an Index in Word and bring this into InDesign, without breaking the cross references. Is there a way around this issue so that I can place a Word doc into Indesign with Index markers and cross references in it?

                                   

                                   

                                  Cross refs panel:


                                  1.JPG

                                   

                                  Cross ref wrapping correctly in Story Editor view:

                                  2.JPG