1 2 Previous Next 54 Replies Latest reply: Aug 7, 2012 5:13 AM by conroy Go to original post RSS
      • 40. Re: Noel Carboni
        conroy Community Member

        JJMack wrote:

         

        "Photoshop Document ring chain...

         

        ... I find it strange that the wrong documment would be updated. ..."

         

         

        JJ, I guess you are using "ring chain" as a synonym for circular list.

         

        The "wrong document" being updated (or referenced in any way) when an Action is played is explicable when you consider that the relative offset between documents referenced by the Action can be different during recording than during playing.

         

        When recording an Action, Ctrl+Tab generates either of:

        "Select previous document"

        "Select document -n"

         

        And Shift+Ctrl+Tab generates either of:

        "Select next document"

        "Select document +n"

         

        Say you have opened in sequence Doc1 and Doc2. Doc1 is active when you start recording an Action in which you create Doc3 then press Ctrl+Tab to select the previously selected document, i.e. Doc1. The step recorded is "Select document -2".

         

        Later, you have three docs opened in sequence Doc1, Doc2 and Doc3. Doc 1 is active and you playback the Action. The Action creates Doc4 then the step "Select Document -2" will not select the previously active document Doc1:  it will select Doc2 instead - the "wrong document".

        • 41. Re: Noel Carboni
          Noel Carboni Community Member

          It's not hard to imagine that document -1 once meant the most recently current document, document -2 meant the second most recently current document, etc.  That might have made that nomenclature make more sense.

           

          -Noel

          • 42. Re: Noel Carboni
            conroy Community Member

            Noel Carboni wrote:

             

            It's not hard to imagine that document -1 once meant the most recently current document, document -2 meant the second most recently current document, etc.  That might have made that nomenclature make more sense.

             

            -Noel

             

            Yes, make more sense and behave usefully and reliably.

            • 43. Re: Noel Carboni
              Noel Carboni Community Member

              Now does my comment about how (incomplete) design changes throughout history seem to make more sense?

               

              I forget when the window cycling order change was made (and the Select Document actions step being documented as no longer being "reliable"), but the more we discuss this the more I remember noticing the change.  Must have been a long time ago - I've slept since then. 

               

              -Noel

              • 44. Re: Noel Carboni
                conroy Community Member

                I never considered your comment as not making sense, Noel, and I'm sorry if I gave the impression of doing so.

                • 45. Re: Noel Carboni
                  Hudechrome Community Member

                  Cutting to the chase, since I don't use tabbed or floating (a minority position, I presume from the comments) what in this discussion presents itself as a problem not recognized as such? I see no difference from CS5 except for a little better stability.

                  • 46. Re: Noel Carboni
                    Noel Carboni Community Member

                    You don't use tabbed or floating?  Typo?  What DO you use?

                     

                    JJ has listed a bunch of newly broken things.  Whether you (or the average user) will run into them seems unlikely.  But for those who DO use them...  Trouble.

                     

                    We note that it's kind of taking Adobe a long time to come out with 13.0.1.  Must be a lot of work going into that.

                     

                    -Noel

                     

                     

                    P.S., No worries Conroy.

                    • 47. Re: Noel Carboni
                      Hudechrome Community Member

                      setup.JPG

                      • 48. Re: Noel Carboni
                        conroy Community Member

                        Noel and JJ,

                         

                        After further observation, I believe the document list to be linear, not circular. I now think the behaviour of select next/previous/+n/-n document is a deliberate design and is sensible. Sensible because it enables an Action to specify the activation of documents according to their position in the document list.

                         

                        The onus is on the Action user to start playback with a document list state which matches the state when the Action was recorded (for example, only one document open, or three documents open and the first one active, etc). Similarly, the provider of an Action is responsible for supplying such information to the user.

                         

                        Here's what's happening.

                         

                        1 open doc:

                        Repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab does nothing, of course.

                         

                        2 open docs:

                        Starting at 1st doc, repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab generates a repeating sequence of "Select next document" (2nd doc), "Select previous document" (1st doc).

                        Starting at 2nd doc, repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab generates a repeating sequence of "Select previous document" (1st doc), "Select next document" (2nd doc).

                         

                        3 open docs:

                        Starting at 1st doc, repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab generates the repeating sequence "Select next document" (2nd doc), "Select next document" (3rd doc), "Select document -2" (1st doc).

                        Starting at 2nd doc, repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab generates the repeating sequence "Select next document" (3rd doc), "Select document -2" (1st doc), "Select next document" (2nd doc).

                        Starting at 3rd doc, repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab generates the repeating sequence "Select document -2" (1st doc), "Select next document" (2nd doc), "Select next document" (3rd doc).

                         

                        4 open docs:

                        Starting at first doc, repeatedly pressing Ctrl+Tab generates the repeating sequence "Select next document" (2nd doc), "Select next document" (3rd doc), "Select next document" (4th doc), "Select document -3" (1st doc).

                         

                        … and so on. I was wrong before to think the behaviour was useless and unreliable. It seems good as long as the document list state when initiating play of an Action is the same as the state when initiating recording of the Action.

                         

                         

                        I realise that none of this post addresses the problem of bug(s) affecting Windows and not Mac playback of Actions.

                        • 49. Re: Noel Carboni
                          Noel Carboni Community Member

                          Looks like a floating window to me, Lawrence.

                           

                          If you're not using actions and scripts that manipulate multiple documents, then you're likely not seeing any problems related to what we're describing.

                           

                          -Noel

                          • 50. Re: Noel Carboni
                            Hudechrome Community Member

                            Ok I suppose it is floating, just not window docking enabled. That means all the images in iPad or Win8 are floating.

                             

                            I gave up on using actions on multiple documents because I was having difficulties. I never looked past the event, just put it on a back burner and use other means.

                            • 51. Re: Noel Carboni
                              JJMack MVP

                              I beleive the chain is circular and Adobe was right to document that Select Previous and Select Next documents is not always  reliable for document are always added to the end of the chain. If your working on the last document in the chain adding an additional document will be the next document in the chain and using select Previous document and using select next document will switch between the last two documents in the chain.  However if your working on a document that is not the last document in the chain adding a document will add a document to the end of the chain when the action use select previous document it will switch to the previous last document in the chain not the document that the action was working on when it added the document to the chain.

                               

                              As Conroy pointed out the document ring can much different when a action is played then when it is recorded,  That is why it best to have only one document open when you use or record an action that may use select previous and next documents.  That way there will be only two open documents previous and next.

                               

                              My little test adding additional new unnames document to the Photoshop ring cleatly showed that document are alway added to the end of the chain no mater which document was the current active Photoshop document when a new document is added. Ctrl+Tab and Ctrl+Shift+Tab the chain in the Chain is circular and that document are in the order that they were add into the open document chain.

                               

                              An action can add two document to the Open document ring and switch between them using select previous and next documents because they will be the last two documents in the ring. An action can add many documents and switch between the for it knows the order the were added to the ring. The action knows the order of the document it added to the end of the document ring. An action has no knowledge about the document ring when its being played. It only knows how many document it added to the end of the chain and the order of the file at the end of the chain.  Adding a document always add to document to the end of the chain and it becomes the active document. Knowing the order of the files at the end of the chain enable the action to be able to switch between them.

                               

                               

                               

                              Noel none of you action use save for web.  If any do you do you can not record the save for wab step in CS6 and expect it to work.

                              • 52. Re: Noel Carboni
                                conroy Community Member

                                JJMack wrote:

                                 

                                Noel none of you action use save for web.  If any do you do you can not record the save for wab step in CS6 and expect it to work.

                                 

                                That could be another Windows-only bug. I've used SFW in CS6 Actions on OS X without problem. If you provide a simple example which fails then I'll try it.

                                • 53. Re: Noel Carboni
                                  JJMack MVP

                                  I may be for I do use a PC the bug is acknowledged but no mention of OS is stated http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/ps_cs6_actions_recorded_action_expor ts_html_instead_of_jpg

                                  • 54. Re: Noel Carboni
                                    conroy Community Member

                                    Same problem on OS X 10.6.8. The recorded instruction is wrong - it says the filename ends with .html instead of .jpg. The output file is a JPEG, but with wrong extension on filename. I hadn't been affected because I use SFW to export PNG.

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