14 Replies Latest reply on Aug 10, 2012 3:12 PM by able123

    the sands of time

    Level 4

      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/nyregion/at-the-american-hotel-in-sag-harbor-tales-and-d rinks-still-flow.html?_r=1&hpw


      I was in Sag Harbor just around the time the Vietnam war was leading up to our present day love affair with that country manufacturing most of our sneakers and apparel, along with China of course and the 'pacific rim'.

      Back in the late 60's it was " hippie " culture and young people making noise about what is right for America and our music reflected that. Some good music came out of that era, and a few good movies. I don't pretend to have any connection to those good products... just an affinity.

      A friend had a " leather shop" on main street in Sag Harbor then..in 1968, when the rent was affordable for a young man and wife with talent to make leather goods...and candles etc. It was down the street from the American Hotel and across the street from the Sag Harbor Whaling Museum, and a few doors away from the " Black Buoy" ( a very disreputable whaling type bar of the sordid variety ).


      The American Hotel at that time rented rooms for about $ 5.00 a night. It was a seedy but a sturdy building, dating back to the days of whales and fishermen. And the Revolutionary war etc. It had some harpoons on the walls, and some other artifacts scattered about the place, but basically it was a man's bar that served men who wanted to drink off the day's work and do what free society and our constitution admired most.  That is, if you wanted to you could smoke a cigarette and laugh and play and drink until you could hardly walk.


      Mostly that was the "extreme" of freedom... we were not idiots. The leather shop was a great success in town, and many intellectuals and artists frequented the place from Long Island and NYC.


      At that time Sag Harbor was where you went to ' avoid ' the Hamptons... a place that still had character and the spirit of what made places like that comfortable for everyone from the Captain of the ship, to the lowest sailor on his first whaling trip. When the American Hotel got bought by outsiders and closed for renovation, and eventually reopened to this monstrosity you see here... it was the end of an era for that town.  I hope they fare well, but really, this article and what you read about its cheap rooms and outhouses in the back yard.. is really not accurate. It was much more vital and beautiful before they turned it into a cheap imitation of a 4 star hotel in Cannes. Or whatever your mind considers " classy".



        • 1. Re: the sands of time
          Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

          Minnesota must be quite a different place.  I have never been to New York State.  Do you miss the Long Island culture?  Are you keeping busy in Minnesota?

          • 2. Re: the sands of time
            Level 4

            Hiya Chuck, hows tricks in GA ?


            Ya, MN. where I am ...west of the twin cities in lake area is pretty and nice. I hear the winters get cold so I'll know more about how this place is after this next winter is over. Right now it's been mostly in the 90's for the past month, but there's a pool in back of apt complex and the lakes, so its been OK. Not working yet...but starting to look around for something to do work wise.

            Just hooked up with some people who probably will let me use their canon xl2 cameras to shoot some stuff...probably a documentary on this town.

            Started getting material together for that ( research ).

            Tomorrow going on boat to check out some potential shots ...ordered some surgical tubing to build rig for camera to put close to water.


            I dont miss ny or long island. In fact, nyc and thought of driving one more time on the BQE gives me nightmares. My apt is literally 3x bigger than ny apt and half as expensive. Plus got pool, storage, parking spot, patio, dishwasher, free heat ( for winter ), AC unit built into wall, way nicer than ny.  NY really sucks. Did you hear about bloomberg organizing apt units in city that are 400 sq feet ?  What an idiot.




            thats 400 sq ft with 'everything' ....bathroom, etc. No parking. Basically bed and living room is one room.. no dining room. And those will probably go for about $2500 / mo. rent or more. how retarded. Young people in city are having room mates just so they can afford to pay their rents. Can you imagine sharing a studio apt that is 400 sq ft ?  Put japaneese type divider down center of room ? I really don't know how come people in nyc don't totally freak out. It just gets worse and worse.  OK...sorry, enough complaining.

            • 3. Re: the sands of time
              Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

              Talk about tight accomodations, remember the Seinfeld episode where Kramer provides room and board for some guests from Japan?


              It is amazing how much different home prices and rent are in different parts of the country.  There are currently some great buys in the Atlanta Georgia area.  My neighbor bought a home for his son for $50,000 in a very nice area.  It took a bit of money and hard work to make the place look nice, but still $50,000 is a decent price for a home in a good area..


              Here's a place for 5M in my town.  The payment is only $26,000 per month.  Wouldn't that be a nightmare.  Imagine having that kind of a payment and a boss and wife like the one in the Twilight Zone episode, "Willoughby"

              • 4. Re: the sands of time
                Level 4

                wow, that place looks cool... and it has a microwave !


                odd thing to put in the listing isnt it ? a microwave.  If you pay 5 million for a house I dont think a microwave is gonna be a big draw.


                50k is more my speed , if I was young... which I aint... but I could see a young couple doing that and paying 150k over 30 years..that at least is a something people can do and still have some money to live decent etc.


                my moms house on long island ( bought for 25k in 1956 ) sold for 356k a few weeks ago. was up to about 450 or so a few years ago..but the recession knocked off a lot.  the house is tiny... 2 bedrooms on main floor. 1 bedroom on 2nd floor...

                But the area is realy nice, and there's a park circle out front ( grass and trees ). I pity the poor youngsters who bought it though, cause thats like 900k for 30 year mortgage about ??  that's insane for a small house on long island. But it is cheaper for them than the rent they were paying in manhattan and they want to start a family, so I sure hope things go well for them.


                the economy out here isnt great but it's not as bad as ny and much of the country...  however, it's not easy to find good paying jobs that are just run of the mill type jobs ... like something to just get by on for a few years.. without getting into a whole career type thing and traveling to the twin city area to work.  I'm going to start looking around here soon...and have a feeling I'll get something dumb like home depot job or something like that.


                you been shooting anything lately ??

                • 5. Re: the sands of time
                  Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

                  Great news, your mom sold her home for $356,000.


                  Property values have come down considerably in my neighborhood here in Georgia.  The upside is our property taxes are less.  Of course they raised the millage rate as much as they could get away with, offsetting the local government's shortfall.


                  You could buy a mansion here in Georgia for $300,000.  The only problem at that price point would be the property taxes.  I think they would run about $300 per month depending on what county the property is in. There are great deals here in the $180,000 range.  Once you have experienced the Minnesota winter, we'll talk again about real estate here.

                  • 6. Re: the sands of time
                    Level 4

                    yeah, everyone here is telling me ( when they find out I just moved here ) that the winters are pretty darn chilly.


                    One good thing is that maybe I can get into ice sailing...that would be kinda fun.


                    forget about me and " real estate " cause I haven't got 2 nickels to rub together.  As it is my pension and SS will have to suffice to live on when I hit 65.. and that will pretty much just keep me afloat.  Is OK though, as so many have lost their pensions and 401K things... I am not complaining.  Some of those people who got laid off and didn't work for over a year had to go into their 401K, and take a big hit on 2 factors...

                    a) most of them were down in value overall

                    b) taxed as "income" ( sorta the penalty for early withdrawal ).


                    I stopped watching news about the economy etc cause it was freaking me out... I think they do it on purpose, make people worried so they watch more of the program.  I finally got to where I was worried so much I had to stop watching entirely.



                    • 7. Re: the sands of time
                      the_wine_snob Level 9

                      Boy, that sounds like lodging for workers in towns, like Aspen, West Vail, Crested and Telluride - 8 folk crowded into 400 sq. ft. of space. You can't even buy a 24 pack of brew, as it will not fit! In Aspen, you would only have to split maybe $4K/mo. Most of the kids work 2 - 3 jobs, just to pay the rent.



                      • 8. Re: the sands of time
                        Level 4

                        Things probably aren't as terrible in general no matter what the news tells us. I'm sure people like me who can afford to eat at McDonalds once a week would gladly invite the poor students next door out for a decent meal... gratis...



                        • 9. Re: the sands of time
                          Level 4

                          I plan on visiting the green frog tomorrow...as the weather forcast is nice and I can practice my golf game...

                          As PG Wodehouse explains my 'game' accurately , it is basically " spending most of my time hunting for my ball, and replacing America "


                          Some parts of America are damaged beyond repair when I start swinging those clubs, but in general it's just putting large clumps of grass back into place.


                          I found out today that the first 5 seconds of my introduction of documentary of " Mound, MN " will cost $650 / hr for the helicopter scout and shoot...if I use my own bungee cord rig out the door. If I go for the steadicam it will be the cost of that rental and operator too...probably not much more than another $1000.


                          These things cost money as soon as you shake a stick at it.  Then there's the cost of copyright use for music ( like "The Andrew Sisters " ) cause they vacationed here in Mound when they were growing up to be good singers.


                          Then there's the Tonka Toy factory stuff...where I imagine I'll try to get someone like " Willie Wonka And The Chocolate Factory" hero to interview about the heyday of " Toys R Us " before Toys R Us became the normal thing...eg. get toys from Vietnam and China cheap.


                          I'm not really mad, but when I think about getting drafted in 1969 at 18 ....it makes me wonder why we don't make toys here in America anymore ?  I mean, really...is it that complicated to help each other and tell these morons running the world that we've had enough of them ?



                          • 10. Re: the sands of time
                            Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

                            "Things probably aren't as terrible in general no matter what the news tells us."  Man, I hope not.  Reading some articles, one would think America is becoming a full-blown police state.  I just posted an article on my facebook related to an Oregon man that was just sentenced to jail time for collecting rain water on his own property!!!


                            My neighbor sent me some pictures he took the other morning of what looked like the entire Alpharetta, GA police department quietly on our street armed with assault rifles.  We live in a good neighborhood. It turned they were there for a legitimate reason. A neighbor attacked and threatened his wife at gunpoint.  This is a guy everyone in the neighborhood loved. The world has changed a lot since I was a kid.

                            • 11. Re: the sands of time
                              Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

                              A guy I used to work with would produce documentaries for public television. Personally, I think you have a great deal of talent in the writing department.  You should write a script and present it to some of the appropriate folks.  You may be able to get people to invest or donate money toward production costs.

                              • 12. Re: the sands of time
                                Level 4

                                yeah, Chuck, the money for it is definitely a consideration. But there's a lot I can do without it to get started at least.


                                Chris Duncan ( he comes around here sometimes and used to come by frequently and lives in  your neck of woods ) hooked me up with a nice woman to do the voice over...and she'll donate the time for now ( Chris will record at his place also gratis for now )... so that's a big help right off the bat.


                                Monday I get to meet with some guy with public access thing ( production facility ).. see about the canon xl2 cameras and lights and editing equip etc...


                                Then it's on to the "product" end result stuff ( as the canon cameras are SD ). Gotta find out who will accept SD ...as most broadcasters now want only HD.


                                Then read a lot and start writing and timelline and outline and so on...lots to do... and most of that can get done without money at this point...thank goodness.


                                I wish I knew how to use maya better, cause I'd like to do a model animation of the glacial period ( formation of lakes and mississippi river etc ) but I don't have the time and fortitude to learn that and be accurate with the models...


                                anyway, keep your head down if you see the entire GA police force out there in your yard...



                                • 13. Re: the sands of time
                                  Chuck A. McIntyre Level 3

                                  This is one of the photos my neighbor took just two doors down from my home.  I blurred the faces cause I would hate to piss the guy off with the assault rifle.



                                  • 14. Re: the sands of time
                                    Level 4

                                    sorry your area went through that stuff...


                                    I love my neighbors and so on , in general, and am always upset when I see a " show of force" necessary from our hired police etc...to keep the peace and solve crimes....


                                    It's a very sensitive subject, as in some cases I feel as if I am not " in the know " about what's up, and am not adding value to helping make things better.  So I have to trust the ones hired ( police etc ) to do their jobs well and so on...usually in very dangerous situations.


                                    I don't get exited about it usually ( I don't want to interject myself into the situation but try to be alert and helpful etc ).  And it's very important to trust the administration and tactics and so on of those people now in " harms way " sometimes ( the police ).


                                    However, it is also important that they are pros, and not have bad attitudes about a neighborhood and social situation ( gangs in LA or other cities for example ) where there actions are knee jerk reactions to scary situations...and the population at large is now treated disrespectfully.  It is a very hard thing to do, work as a good policeman , and keep that balance of their jobs ( upholding the law vs. the potential of criminals to hurt them ).


                                    I particularly like the K9 units...as I am friend to dogs in general and consider myself an " honorary dog " when it comes to being with those nice creatures.... At least they are nice until they bite you, in which case I immediately excercise my right to adjust their behaviour according to the laws of Spinoza...eg.. whack that dog on the nose sharply !