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1. Re: Tools to fix Adobe png files & add ICC profiles?
conroy Aug 13, 2012 11:34 AM (in response to Astara_)I often use the simple Preview app that comes with OS X to add sRGB profile to PNGs exported by Photoshop's Save For Web.
Photoshop does read them, yes. If there is not one in a PNG, Photoshop stupidly says "format does not support profiles". If one is in the PNG, Photoshop uses it correctly.
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2. Re: Tools to fix Adobe png files & add ICC profiles?
Chris Cox Aug 13, 2012 11:33 AM (in response to Astara_)That's odd - because Photoshop reads and writes values in PNG unchanged from the document.
And PNG can contain a profile if saved from Photoshop (just not SFW - it was an oversight).
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3. Re: Tools to fix Adobe png files & add ICC profiles?
Noel Carboni Aug 13, 2012 1:22 PM (in response to Astara_)Chris has abbreviated his response a bit too much I think...
- If in Photoshop you choose File - Save As..., then choose PNG format, a profile will be saved in the PNG file, which will be used next time the file is opened by Photoshop or other program that understands PNGs with profiles.
- If you choose File - Save for Web... (what Chris refers to as SFW) then choose any of the PNG formats then no color profile is stored in the PNG file.
-Noel
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4. Re: Tools to fix Adobe png files & add ICC profiles?
Astara_ Aug 13, 2012 5:50 PM (in response to Noel Carboni)Hmmm...you may be right Noel, but none maybe none of my display programs read them... -- I dunno.
When I store jpg and tiff, it always has a checkbox to store the profile.
There is no such dialog -- and no program that can use color profiles acts like any of my png's saved
from PS, have one.
So, you *could* be right, but the evidence points against PS -- no dialog as with jpg and tiff, and no other programs
that use profiles seem to use profiles written by PS (if they are written by PS)....
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5. Re: Tools to fix Adobe png files & add ICC profiles?
Noel Carboni Aug 13, 2012 6:16 PM (in response to Astara_)I suppose Photoshop could be storing them in a non-standard way, but I guarantee you the profile is in there.
I saved this PNG file, which contains bright, saturated colors, with the ProPhoto RGB profile. Click on it to see it in fully color-managed state.
Obviously Internet Explorer is able to see and use the profile. Safari is able to use it. Windows Photo Viewer is able to use it.
Without color-management, the file would look like this:
-Noel
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6. Re: Tools to fix Adobe png files & add ICC profiles?
conroy Aug 13, 2012 8:15 PM (in response to Astara_)Astara_ wrote:
So, you *could* be right, but the evidence points against PS -- no dialog as with jpg and tiff, and no other programs
that use profiles seem to use profiles written by PS (if they are written by PS)....
I know you said CS5 on Windows, but this post may help you although it is what happens with CS5.1 on a Mac.
The profile is embedded by Photoshop Save As PNG but not written by Save For Web PNG.
The Save As dialogue doesn't allow you to tick the embed profile box, but the profile with which your document is tagged will be embedded.
If the document is untagged (i.e. not colour managed) in Ps, Save As will specify whatever profile your working space is using, but no profile is embedded.
I have numerous programs which read the profile that has been embedded into PNG by Ps Save As PNG.
Ps itself will subsequently read the profile that it has embedded. If Ps doesn't detect a profile when opening a file, it warns you.
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7. Re: Tools to fix Adobe png files & add ICC profiles?
Noel Carboni Aug 13, 2012 8:23 PM (in response to conroy)conroy2009 wrote:
If the document is untagged (i.e. not colour managed) in Ps, Save As will specify whatever profile your working space is using, but no profile is embedded.
Good point!
But wouldn't it be kind of odd to work on a document without color-management, then expect a profile to be embedded upon Save? Perhaps Astara can clarify whether this is a possibility.
-Noel
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8. Re: Tools to fix Adobe png files & add ICC profiles?
Silkrooster Aug 13, 2012 8:50 PM (in response to conroy)Maybe I am misunderstanding this, but aren't you suppose to convert to a profile, before you can embed the profile into the file? Or is it still greyed out after the conversion?
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9. Re: Tools to fix Adobe png files & add ICC profiles?
conroy Aug 13, 2012 9:05 PM (in response to Silkrooster)The options that are grayed out in Save As when format is PNG are grayed out regardless of anything.
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10. Re: Tools to fix Adobe png files & add ICC profiles?
Astara_ Aug 14, 2012 4:59 PM (in response to Noel Carboni)The two files you show above look the same on my browser.
Until I hover over them -- then the PhotoPro popped off the page.
Ok, I have the evidence of *strangeness* I need now...Yes -- it does save a color profile, but it doesn't save it in a way that renders the same as tif and jpg in either Explorer or FF. or a ICC-color handling -in-hw photo view program.
So Something is screwy... Ideas?
This is a large pic following, but it's 5 of yours all in 1 pic so they have to share the
same profile. and you can see them compared to each in the same picture.
The top three are resaves of your ProRGB.png -- when I read it in, told me about
a color profile mismatch, so I allowed it to convert to my current profile.
not as colorerful as colorpro, but on par w/adobe's/98...THOUGH, .. if you look ..
the color pro png vs. my saved tiff and jpg both with profiles -- almost identical colors.
But the png is more dull -- NOT as dull as the sRGB you displayed... but sorta like
it's half way between my profile and the sRGB profile....
So I dunnow WHAT it is doing.... It looks more washed out on any viewer I've tried, so it has something to do with what color profile or how adobe is writing the color profile out....
Ideas? (you will have to browser over it and click on it to see it full size)...
But even in small size, you can see the two middle ones -- bottom sRGB and top
Native saved RGB, look more dull ... That's why I thought png's weren't storing
more profile... and I 'm still not sure.
I are you it isn't just converting it to an sRGB?
I'm not saving for web....
it's saveas....
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11. Re: Tools to fix Adobe png files & add ICC profiles?
Noel Carboni Aug 14, 2012 6:24 PM (in response to Astara_)Astara_ wrote:
Yes -- it does save a color profile, but it doesn't save it in a way that renders the same as tif and jpg in either Explorer or FF. or a ICC-color handling -in-hw photo view program.
when I read it in, told me about a color profile mismatch, so I allowed it to convert to my current profileI'm not sure why you chose to convert the image to a different profile. That muddied the water.
Generally speaking, properly color-managed applications will interpret PNG, TIFF, and JPEG images per the profiles embedded by Photoshop, and the images will look visually the same, though you may see small differences in the color numbers.
That's shown here by my having saved three equivalent images, in PNG, JPEG, and TIFF format, all tagged with the ProPhoto RGB format. I then opened them in Windows Photo Viewer, Photoshop, Safari, Firefox (which does not open TIFF files natively), and IE9 (which does not open TIFF files natively, and does not do a complete job of color-management on images). I also showed the thumbnails in Explorer, though to be fair that's the same codec code interpreting the images as in Windows Photo Viewer.
Keep in mind not all applications are properly color-managed, and what you see from those that are not (e.g., IE) can be subject to settings on your own system.
Beyond that, not every color-management system produces perfectly accurate results (including Photoshop's under some conditions), nor does every one necessarily use the same options (black point compensation, etc.) so the color numbers will be seen to differ a little.
Also, JPEG compression can result in some color inaccuracy.
Oh, and capturing your screen and publishing an image should involve a conversion, or at least publishing the image tagged with the monitor color profile, because RGB values pulled off your screen are of course expressed in your monitor's color space.
You'd think in this day and age that things would be more nailed down than they are, but it is what it is. Bottom line, though, is that if you're SEEING VISIBLE DIFFERENCES, you probably have a color management problem on your system or you're expecting better color-management compliance from an application than it's actually delivering.
It's too late and I'm really far too tired to get into a deeper conversation on color-management. Such a thread could go on for days, and they usually do.
-Noel









