22 Replies Latest reply: Aug 16, 2012 12:40 PM by Zooropa75 RSS

    Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?

    Zooropa75 Community Member

      In FCP, when I drag a clip or edge on Timeline, I can press the Command key to enter a mode where it moves frame by frame. This is very useful when the Timeline is dense and the default drag can only move many frames at a time.

       

      Is there an equivalent in Premiere Pro? The only other way would be to zoom out the Timeline first, do the drag, and probably zoom back in to resume work. That's too much trouble. And yes there are keyboard shortcuts that move a clip or edge frame by frame, but if I want to move a clip for exactly 2 seconds (60 frames), that's a loooooot of keystrokes AND I need to keep count. Dragging is so much easier.

       

      Thanks!

        • 1. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
          ExactImage Community Member

          To move by left by 2 seconds is as simple as -2:00 on the keyboard.  to move right by 2 seconds just type 2:00.  

           

          How many fewer strokes would you like?

           

          You can move left or right by as many hours/minutes/seconds/frames as you like just by typing a number.

           

          If you know how many frames are in a second, you can even just type the frames and PP will work it out..... so if you're on a 25p timeline then typing -50 will move 2 seconds also.

          • 2. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
            B_Kaufman Community Member

            You can double click on the clip in the timeline and it will open it in the Source window. From there you can go the the in or out points (Q or W), move frame by frame, and then set the in/out point (I or O). If I need to clarify or explain anything further, please let me know!

             

            Hope this helps!

            -Barrett

            • 3. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
              Zooropa75 Community Member

              ExactImage: I want one keystroke. The Command key. In general I prefer using the mouse to using keystrokes. Pressing "+" on the Numeric keypad (first assuming there is one), then the number, then Return - That to me is a lot more hassle than just dragging, because it interrupts my editing workflow which is mostly based on mouse clicking and dragging.

               

              Besides, there are many situations where I don't know exactly how many frames I want to move. I just want to be able to fine-tune to one frame. For example, I want to expand the end of a clip to the frame just before the actor turns his head. I do a Ripple-Edit and drag the end point on Timeline. In both Premiere Pro and FCP, this brings up the trim window where you see the two sides of the editing point. Great, I can drag until I find the frame I want. The problem is, if the Timeline is dense, I can only drag multiple frames at a time. In FCP, by pressing the Command key, I can zero in on the precise frame. In Premiere Pro, there doens't seem to be an equivalent.

               

              I am a "precision editor" in that I often adjust the editing point to an exact frame (either audio or video). There are many, many uses for the "precision dragging" feature and it's really easy to use. While there may be workarounds for each specific scenario, I would love a general solution that works everywhere. FCP does so much better in terms of precision editing, mainly because of the powerful Viewer (the Source Monitor in Premiere Pro does not begin to compare). For example, in FCP you can do Ripple/Roll editing in the Viewer, either by mouse drag or by keyboard. No such luck in Premiere Pro! Adjusting a clip after it's already in a Timeline is a pain. But that's probably for a separate discussion thread.

               

              Another thing I want to bring up is that, by design, there are many ways to do the same thing in a NLE software like Premiere Pro or FCP. Mouse drag vs. keyboard control, menu vs. buttons vs. keyboard shortcuts, etc. Each editor probably has his/her own set of habits and preferences. So, one person's pain point may be another person's "don't care", and one person's workaround may be another person's "don't want". That probably contributed to the huge variance in people's experiences of migrating from FCP to Premiere Pro. (I belong to be "very frustrated" camp.) How much should Adobe care about all these different editing habits? That's up to them. One reason I post functionality questions in this forum, aside from looking for answers or workarounds, is to see if other people share the same pain or if I am the only one that cares. Maybe I'm just the weird one, I don't know.

              • 4. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                ExactImage Community Member

                Zooropa75 wrote:

                I am a "precision editor" in that I often adjust the editing point to an exact frame (either audio or video).

                As are we.... we do this a lot! 

                 

                We use the backslash key a LOT to zoom in and outof the timeline as needed, so when we need to get to frame precision we hit the backslash to zoom in to the "precision levels" the backslash to zoom backout again.  It's one key hit and gets us what we need.

                 

                If you need something different then by all means reuqest it.

                • 5. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                  Zooropa75 Community Member

                  Yes, I have found myself doing timeline zoom in/out a lot more, since I have to do most of the editing in Timeline itself (instead of the Viewer in FCP). I don't like it because it disrupts my mental view of the sequence and I can "lose my place". But I may just have to get used to it. I also had to expand the audio tracks much taller in the Timeline so I can see the waveform well enough for editing...

                  • 6. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                    ExactImage Community Member

                    Zooropa75 wrote:

                     

                    I also had to expand the audio tracks much taller in the Timeline so I can see the waveform well enough for editing...

                    Yup!   that's also why I'm editing on 30" display with as much resolution as I can get.  I often have several audio tracks massively expanded!

                    • 7. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                      shooternz Community Member

                      Adobe really care and have provided multiple edit methods in CS6.

                       

                      They include professional keyboard style techniques to the more mouse based edit methods. All multi functional to suit the user.  (Pro  / Am ) and somewhat configureable.

                       

                       

                      In your case: Here are a few suggestions

                       

                      1. Use the Trim Monitor.  Set up the increments exactly how you wish but 1 frame is a Default.

                       

                      2. You can also Ripple Trim (mouse style) in Trim Monitor as well. All the trim modes work in the Trim Monitor.

                       

                      3. You can also numerically enter in the Trim Monitor.

                       

                      4. In the timeline you can make 1 or many frame adjustments on the playback fly in Loop Mode. ("Play around Edit")

                       

                      5. You can use the prior mentioned numerical entry method in the timeline.

                       

                      6. You can also use "Edit to Playhead" in the sequence  using what ever Trim mode you want.  Fast and simple and precise..

                       

                      7. Then you have CTRL - Left  and CTRL-Right for single frame precision editing in the timeline (SDhift-CTRL - Left and Shift-CTRL-Right for 5 frames or whatever you set)

                       

                       

                      How many precision moves could  one want...and I bet others could add even more methods that they like.

                       

                      Counting frames seems pretty tedious and time consuming when there are so many ways of doing better and with more precision.  Mouse style editing is usually less precise than keyboard style editing because one does not need to expand the timeline at all.

                      • 8. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                        Zooropa75 Community Member

                        Thank you, shooternz, for the many suggestions. As I said, there is an issue of personal habits and preferences. For me, mouse editing is a lot more intuitive, easy, and flexible. It also allows my brain to stay more in the creative mode. Keyboard operations tend to take me out of that flow. Also by using mouse editing I don't have to remember so many different keystroke combinations.

                         

                        I would also suggest that in this age of multitouch screens and motion-control gaming, the general direction of technology advancement is toward more intuitive and less keyboard-based controls. True, video editing is a separate field and has good reasons for utilizing keyboards. Still, I like how easy it is to do mouse editing in FCP.

                         

                        At the end, I don't think one style is better or worse. Adobe is the one who has to decide how flexible they want to allow the editing workflow, and how widely they cater to different preferences.

                         

                        BTW, when using mouse style scrubbing in Trim Monitor, the amount of movement is NOT dynamically updated (it's only updated after mouse release). This is very annoying when I try to scrub back and forth... and is one reason I don't use this feature. (As you know, when using mouse scrubbing in Timeline, the amount of movement is displayed in a pop-up box.)

                        • 9. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                          J. Simon Community Member

                          The short answer is, PP currently has no equivalent.  You'll have to adjust your work flow, or switch back to FCP.

                          • 10. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                            shooternz Community Member

                            BTW, when using mouse style scrubbing in Trim Monitor, the amount of movement is NOT dynamically updated (it's only updated after mouse release). This is very annoying when I try to scrub back and forth... and is one reason I don't use this feature

                             

                            Sorry... but I can use a Mouse Ripple or Rolling Edit in the Trim Monitor with single frame accuracy and the images updates dynamically and responsively on both sides of the Display (without releasing the mouse button).  The TC is also counting precisely same time.

                             

                            The single frame Edit Button is actioned by a Key Mouse Click.

                             

                            Both seem to be what you are asking Adobe for.

                             

                            Interestingly...most FCP converts lamented the lack of keyboard shortcuts in earlier versions of PPRO.  THey got them and hen..you lament the lack of Mouse Methods.  First time for everything I guess.

                             

                             

                            • 11. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                              Zooropa75 Community Member

                              In the Trim Monitor, I'm talking about the small number that shows the number of frames that will be changed. It's displayed on either side of the "-5 -1 / +1 +5" button bar. Do you see it? Does it update as you drag the mouse (and before mouse release)? Without this when I'm scrubbing, I have no idea how far I am from the original point (unless I memorize the time code).

                               

                              As for the single frame edit button - The whole point is that I like the convenience of doing an edit in FCP with only one mouse drag motion, plus the Command modifier if needed. Extra clicks/double-clicks, extra mouse movements, extra keystrokes (especially combination keys that require either both hands or awkward hand position on one hand) - All of those are undesirable to me. It looks like the best workaround for me is still to zoom in on the Timeline first and zoom out afterwards.

                               

                              One key annoyance (no pun intended) about keyboard editing is that I have to use different methods/keys based on how far I'm going (how many frames) and which direction (several ways of shortening a clip cannot be used to extend a clip). I know there are plenty of people who prefer it, but for me, that's a lot of unnecessary thinking and switching.

                               

                              Look at it this way: If FCP works well for both mouse editing and keyboard editing, why can't Premiere Pro? :-)

                              • 12. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                                J. Simon Community Member

                                It's displayed on either side of the "-5 -1 / +1 +5" button bar. Do you see it? Does it update as you drag the mouse (and before mouse release)?

                                 

                                Those will never update.  Those are fixed buttons for you to click it you want to move by that amount of frames.  That is not a display of any sort of timecode.

                                 

                                The timecode for the clips are in big white numbers displayed over the clips themselves, not below.  And yes, they update as you drag.

                                • 13. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                                  Zooropa75 Community Member

                                  Jim, I'm talking about the two small white numbers ON EITHER SIDES of the fixed buttons. They are called "Out Shift" and "In Shift" according to tool tips. They tell me how much I have moved away from the original editing point. When I do a mouse drag/scrub, they do update after I release the mouse, but not during.

                                   

                                  I tried to attach a screen grab but the editor didn't let me.

                                  • 14. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                                    J. Simon Community Member

                                    Oh, yeah, I see now.  Man they're small.  And you're right, they don't change while scrubbing.  But the timecode does, so...

                                    • 15. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                                      shooternz Community Member

                                      You must be regretting the change  to PPro.

                                       

                                      Sorry we couldnt find a solution for you.

                                       

                                      All you can do is put in a Feature  Request if you decide to suffer and stick with it.

                                       

                                      The link is easily searcheable in this forum.

                                      • 16. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                                        ComputerNovice25 Community Member

                                        If you used the shortcuts for a little while you wouldn't need to think about it anymore. It becomes second nature. However I do totally understand that it stinks during the time you are learning to edit this way. Because at first it takes quite a bit of thinking to get used to using shortcut keys instead of using the mouse. But after you get used to it, you would most likely start to like it.

                                         

                                        Trust me though I totally understand your pain, because I used to edit with my mouse only other than to copy, paste, and cut. But after awhile of editing using shortcut keys that I customized to my liking using Premiere's keyboard shortcut settings I began to edit much faster than I ever did with a mouse. Although quite honestly I still do edit with my mouse more than a lot of the people I work with. Some of the people I work with do almost EVERYTHING on the keyboard. I'm about a 60/40 split depending on what I'm doing.

                                         

                                        However I do realize though that the learning period is certainly not fun because during that period you have to stop and think a bit before you hit the correct key combo. After awhile though before you know it you realize you're suddenly hitting the right keys without any thought, it becomes second nature.

                                         

                                        Anyways though to each his own.

                                        • 17. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                                          Richard M Knight MVP

                                          Do many people use a Contour Shuttle?, I have the 15 buttons set to all the keyboard shortcuts I use. Using that and a mouse I almost never touch the keyboard.

                                           

                                          Richard

                                          • 18. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                                            shooternz Community Member

                                            Many ways to skin the cat in Premiere and most NLEs.

                                             

                                            Thing is ...suggesting all the different ways and solutions  to the instransigent ...is a lost cause.

                                             

                                             

                                             

                                            No surprises there. Adobe cant please everyone (despite me being well happy with CS6)

                                            • 19. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                                              Zooropa75 Community Member

                                              I wouldn't say I'm the intransigent. (Unless you want us to agree on which way of editing is "better" - That *would* be a lost cause.) Trust me I already adapted plenty since taking up on Premiere Pro. If I am really unwilling to adapt, I wouldn't even being here... I would be back on FCP.

                                               

                                              But if Adobe wants to attract and retain the FCP defectors, I would imagine that matching what FCP offers is at least worth considering. That's why I'm raising these questions - I don't claim to represent all FCP defectors, but I am one voice and I'm curious to hear the voices of others.

                                              • 20. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                                                ExactImage Community Member

                                                There are lots of things you could do in FCP that you can't do in Premiere Pro.  simple things like Join Through Edit comes to mind as a really simple one...... but there are a lot more things that Premiere Pro does (and does brilliantly) that FCP either didn't do at all, or didn't do well.

                                                 

                                                I guess it's a case of weighing up the pros and cons and going with the one you like the most.

                                                 

                                                Both Adobe and Apple have feedback and request forms.  Who listens the most will always be a matter for debate.

                                                 

                                                The one that's REALLY bugging me at the moment is the lack of rippling markers when I delete something!   There seems little point in having a marker (inc chapter markers) if they don't stay with the timing of the footage as it's shortend.

                                                • 21. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                                                  Kevin-Monahan Adobe Employee

                                                  What you are looking for is a global command equivalent for FCP's "gear down" behavior. With certain keystrokes, you could trim or move clips more slowly and precisely. This is what you really want, so make a feature request: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

                                                  • 22. Re: Is there a way to do "precision dragging" a la FCP?
                                                    Zooropa75 Community Member

                                                    Thank you Kevin. I actually submitted a request this morning. I hope the intake team doesn't get tired of me, because I will have more requests coming! :-)