14 Replies Latest reply: Aug 17, 2012 1:49 PM by imagex ideas RSS

    Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project

    imagex ideas

      I've completed a Bluray project with 3 sequences in Premiere CS5.0.  The output to Bluray disc through Encore CS5 went well.  I now want to send a SD PAL DVD to a friend in Africa, and hoped (incorrectly) that I could just render the sequences with the appropriate PAL setting and use Encore again with PAL specified.  Files were rendered, but Encore rejects them as being an unacceptabe aspect ratio.

       

      What is the simplest procedure to get a PAL format disc of my project?  I am willing to accept either top/bottom letterbox or truncation of the left/right sides of the frames to get the 16:9 aspect ratio into 4:3 or whatever PAL wants.

        • 1. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
          J. Simon Community Member

          Use an MPEG2-DVD preset appropriate for your material.

          • 2. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
            imagex ideas

            Jim - This is what I already tried - exported using MPEG-DVD preset entitled "PAL High Quality", Main Concept MPEG Video, 720x576, 25fps.  Render/export produced m2v and wav files for each sequence, but Encore won't use them in a PAL DVD claiming they have an unacceptable aspect ratio.

            REK

            • 3. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
              ExactImage Community Member

              To downsize 1920x1080 to PAL widescreen DVD you need to add a 13px crop to the top and bottom of the frames in media encoder.  You do this in the source tab.  Once you've done this create yourself a preset so you don't have to do it over and over again!

               

              We do this for every project we produce from HD to DVD in PAL.

               

              BTW - it's a very good idea to have a CUDA card (with max quality enabled) for the downscaling because it produces MUCH better results (and it's also alot quicker).

              • 4. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
                Ann Bens ACP/MVPs

                Best not to use odd numbers but 12 and 14 for cropping otherwise you can get field issues.

                • 5. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
                  ExactImage Community Member

                  These are the numbers I found recommeded on Adobe's site and have worked perfectly for me.  OTOH I always export progressive too

                  • 6. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
                    Ann Bens ACP/MVPs

                    Can you point me to that site.

                    I use to recommend the odd number, think there is even a screendump floating around on these forums, but corrected that now.

                    • 7. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
                      ExactImage Community Member

                      Ann, I would have to go hunting for it because it's so long ago now.   Once I had a setting that worked I never changed it.

                       

                      In the end it's al the same..... 13+13 or 12+14 means you need to crop 26 pixels from the height of the frame in order to get the correct PAR for PAL widescreen DVDs.

                      • 8. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
                        Ann Bens ACP/MVPs

                        I got the tip from an Adobe Engineer over at the AME forum...

                        • 9. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
                          J. Simon Community Member

                          Encore won't use them in a PAL DVD claiming they have an unacceptable aspect ratio.

                           

                          Best guess here is that you didn't have the Encore project set up for PAL, but for NTSC.

                           

                          The cropping mentioned by others will eliminate the very tiny black bars you get from scaling HD down to SD, but has no bearing on the larger issue of Encore using the files.  With or without the cropping, they'll still come out at 720 x 576, which is what PAL DVDs require.

                          • 10. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
                            imagex ideas

                            Jim, That was a reasonable guess, but I double checked that the Encore project was set up as a PAL project expecting to output 720x576, 25fps to a DVD.  But here is a more careful look at the error message:

                                     PCC "Untitled Timeline" has an error at 437.6400s

                                     The aspect ratio of this file is not supported by DVD

                                     PGC Info: name=Untitled Timeline, ref=Bpgc, time=437.6400s

                            Now that time is the first frame of the second sequence I put on the timeline, or rather the second m2v and wav files exported from the second sequence in Premiere CS5. Apparently the first sequence is swallowed OK, but the second is causing a problem.  All three exports were done with the same MPEG-DVD/PAL HQ preset, and all three m2v files are listed in Windows Explorer as 720x576 videos, and all three m3v files play in Windows Media Player looking the same (a wide screen video letterboxed with black bars at top and bottom).

                             

                            However, if I look at the three sequences on the monitor in Encore, the first sequence has very narrow black bars on left and right, while the other two are widescreen aspect ratio surrounded on all four sides by wide black bars.

                             

                            I re-exported the second sequence from Premiere with no change in result.

                             

                            Anyone have an idea what's happening, or at least how I can get the PAL disk burned?

                            • 11. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
                              J. Simon Community Member

                              that time is the first frame of the second sequence I put on the timeline

                               

                              Don't do that.  Even though Encore allows it, things just work better with one video asset per timeline.  If you need both videos in one timeline, then export them out of PP as one.

                              • 12. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
                                ExactImage Community Member

                                imagex ideas wrote:

                                 

                                 

                                However, if I look at the three sequences on the monitor in Encore, the first sequence has very narrow black bars on left and right, while the other two are widescreen aspect ratio surrounded on all four sides by wide black bars.

                                This is because you have the pixel aspect ratio wrong.  Did you crop as I (or Ann) suggested above?    The ONLY time you see black bars on the side is when you forgot to crop correctly.

                                 

                                As Jim said, Encore will work better with one asset per sequence, but I've used more than one myself on several occasions and had it work perfectly, while other times I've seen unexplainable 'gaps' (delays) when it transitions from one to the other on playback, so I don't do it any more.

                                 

                                It really does sound like you may need to look at your cropping again though....

                                • 13. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
                                  J. Simon Community Member

                                  Cropping will only affect what you see in the frame, but won't change any specs of the file itself.

                                  • 14. Re: Get SD PAL render files from a Bluray project
                                    imagex ideas

                                    OK, Jim's advice did the trick.  I put each m2v and wav on its own timeline in Encore, changed the button references on the main menu and the project burned successfully.  Unfortunately, I don't have PAL equipment to test the disk, but all signs are positive.

                                     

                                    To exactimage, I realized from the beginning that the 16:9 Bluray frames would get chopped or black boxed in conversion to SD PAL, but that was OK.  This was an informal effort to show a fellow who helped me shoot footage in Africa what he'd worked on - a real one-off.

                                     

                                    I also have done many Encore projects in which I put several short video pieces on a single Encore timeline and treated them as disconnected chapters in the menu structure.  Like exactimage, I have had bothersome hesitations when I wanted one "chapter" (or video file) to feed directly into another "chapter" (or video file), but not this breakdown in recognizing file properties.  Guess I've learned a good lesson.  THanks, especially Jim.