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BC Support: Chat vs Phone support

Adobe Employee ,
Jul 06, 2012 Jul 06, 2012

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Hi All,

As you know, the channels we use to access the BC support are the forums, chats and cases. There have been many discussions in the past related to this and the fact that we don't provide phone support.

Please allow me to explain why we consider chat the way to go and the best solution for supporting the partner community:

1) Chat is very easy to acces. Click Help & support in the Partner Portal/Admin Console and you are now just a click away from reaching us through chat. Besides this, you can now access chat here, right from this post.

2) Chat offers approximately the same level of communication, engagement and feetback as the phone does.

3) Chat offers immediate response as phone support does.

4) You can have access to a chat transcript for further reference, while you can't obtain a copy of your conversation on the phone.

5) We must share with you screenshots, KB docs and step by step instructions. We couldn't do this over the phone.

6) It's hard to troubleshoot websites over the phone. Working with long URLs is hard, pointing out elements in a screenshot is impossible and talking about something like #content-nav{border: 1px solid #A456B7} over the phone would be a nightmare.

Please let us know what you think. Feedback is appreciated, as always.

Thanks,

Vlad

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LEGEND ,
Jul 06, 2012 Jul 06, 2012

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I personally prefer the chat support over phone anyways. I'll add some reasons as to why:

7) I don't have to try and do stuff on the computer with a phone pasted to my ear

8) Many times when support (not just Adobe) is based in a country that the techies have a strong accent like I would imagine would be the case here it is hard to understand. Type doesn't have an accent.

9) Forums first also provides more documentation content in the way of others having the same issue. Easy to find answers and frees up the chat and cases for the more specific cases.

I think I could do more but in my opinion you guys are doing it right.

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 06, 2012 Jul 06, 2012

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Vlad

In general, documented communication, though sometimes more time-consuming for simple questions, is something which can be revisited, whereas undocumented relies on ones usually sketchy note-taking.  I do, however, think that phone/chat/KB/forums each have their place.  They are not mutually exclusive.  The lack of phone, really, is one of staffing, isn't it?  You are doing the best you can with an extremely complex platform, with, if I infer correctly from the general tone of "things," the pace of Business Catalyst moving ahead is sometimes in sync with Adobe, but out of sync with partners.  I would like to have phone conversations for simple clarification purposes, however.  Thoughts?

Dennis Woodhall

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Mentor ,
Jul 06, 2012 Jul 06, 2012

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In my 5 years at BC I've had to ring irate customers on many occasions and troubleshoot their problem over the phone and I can tell you that it's definitely a wrong format to troubleshoot websites. Just spelling out a URL over the phone makes you pull your hair out. But then a customer navigating me through their site and explaining the elements on the site and what they should look like, and what you expect them to do and look like, is equivalent to sticking a pencil in your eye.

I guess it's OK for the partner like yourself to provide phone support to your customers because you have built the sites and when they mention something you'll know right away what they're talking about, but if you approach me and try to explain some issue on your site over the phone, without the URL, screenshots and so on, it would bring tears to my eyes. Plus, what happens while I'm trying to replicate the issue on my test site or if I'm investigating something with firebug? There'd be a lot of "ummmm...soooo....you like stuffff?"

And if I want to share a code snippet with you, or some CSS or even point out a CSS problem, how do I do that over the phone? Plus, if your developer is overseas, which is quite likely considering how many BC partners offshore developemnt, you won't understand a thing I'm saying.

And there's that issue of me telling you something today and you not being able to refer to it in future, when you come across the same issue, so you'd have to call us over and over again about the same issue and never be able to refer to the links or screenshot I can give you in written form.

I think that phone support has it's place, maybe in billing or something like that, but not website support and not in Business Catalyst support. I truly hope it never gets introduced.

That's my 2 cents!

-mario

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Guide ,
Jul 07, 2012 Jul 07, 2012

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I must agree here with most that chat support is the way to go overall. However there is an option that should be considered that might satisfy some people and in certain cases will allow an extra level of support that chat or phone alone cannot offer. What I talk about is Adobe Connect or Adobe Connect Now (Connect Now is a "downgraded" version of Connect but would work for the purpose I suggest.)

I mention this because I have used this with Adobe Support before. (For a none BC issue.)  Instead of the rep trying to walk me through step by step and the conversation going something like:

Rep: Go Here and Do This

Me: Okay I went here but I do not see the file.

Rep: It should be there and positioned here.
Me: I still do not see it.

* 15 min later *

Me: Oh there it is, I had to check "Show Hidden Files"

Rep: Now go here and do this....etc.

He asked for permission to send me a link and to share my screen. He then asked for permission to control the screen and explained that I could see everything he was doing etc. I agreed and instead of taking 30-60 min to walk me through everything he was able to do it in just a few minutes while explaining to me what he was doing.

While I would not recommend this for every case. But as Mario mentioned:

In my 5 years at BC I've had to ring irate customers on many occasions and troubleshoot their problem over the phone and I can tell you that it's definitely a wrong format to troubleshoot websites. Just spelling out a URL over the phone makes you pull your hair out. But then a customer navigating me through their site and explaining the elements on the site and what they should look like, and what you expect them to do and look like, is equivalent to sticking a pencil in your eye.

In that case using Connect or Connect Now would have been perfect. The customer could of got the phone call and you could of still integrated a chat type environment for the links and other website information. Trying to navigate the site would of been simple with the customer able to simply point with his/her cursor to the problem. Screen sharing for support is a great way to really help in certain cases.

That is my input and I will add here that I have had some great experiences with BC Support over chat and it has been much easier than any phone conversations would have been.

Thanks BC for the wonderful support!

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Mentor ,
Jul 08, 2012 Jul 08, 2012

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I've used Connect before, but the problem is that it doesn't scale well. I can run 2 - 3 chats at the same time and help 3 customers in 20 minutes. With connect I can help one customer in 20 minutes. Plus, there's nothing on customer's computer that I have to see that they can not show me in a screenshot or a brief video. The rest of Adobe deals with program installations and other stuff that runs on your computer. BC deals with a web app, so there's nothing in that PC that we need.

By the way I love customers who record videos. You can open Jing and record a video in less then a minute, upload it half a minute and show usx exactly what the problem is and really be a champion and not ask questions like this http://forums.adobe.com/message/4437985

-m

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Guide ,
Jul 08, 2012 Jul 08, 2012

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Got it. And yes Jing is very nice =>

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New Here ,
Jul 09, 2012 Jul 09, 2012

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I still like the old days when once a week Mario would do some online training/support via Connect. He could help several people at a time, open websites and get instance feedback. Three customers in 20 minutes? You could help more with the online sessions. Chat is great, but like right now, I am just waiting for the tech to answer my question. Read a few posts and typed my reply and still waiting. With the online training I would schedule the day and actually have the time to spend. Any chance those online session would ever be given another consideration?

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Adobe Employee ,
Jul 09, 2012 Jul 09, 2012

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Hi Nucleus,

Some positive news about webinars as we are targeting August 2012 to bring back various web training sessions. 

However it won't be like the Q&A sessions that Mario used to do in the past and the frequency at the moment is scheduled for monthly trainings covering various aspects of BC from partner, technical and sales, etc. 

Please monitor our BC Blog for upcoming news about this in the coming weeks. 

- http://www.businesscatalyst.com/_blog/bc_blog

Hope this helps!

-Sidney

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Community Beginner ,
Jul 09, 2012 Jul 09, 2012

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A thought to all partners chiming in and viewing this chat - As Lynda said, Jing or Snagit are essential tools for both Adobe BC support and for clients as well. These screen capture tools plus onlibne chat are totally the way to go. I must use it many times a day, even with employees.

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Mentor ,
Jul 09, 2012 Jul 09, 2012

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And for those using Mac you can't go passed http://skitch.com/

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Explorer ,
Jul 18, 2012 Jul 18, 2012

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The one issue I have had in the past and so have clients is chat does not work in situations when access is denied to the user. I attribute it to the same issue some cars have with keyless locks. If the battery is dead on the key there is no way to gain access.

For example the implementation of the Adobe ID was a complete cluster f@#*. Users were denied access, could not log into the portal to submit a case because you were not allowed access, could not implement a chat because access was denied and could not post to the forum because your old ID was dead. In that situation the best thing I could do was create a new ID just so I could post to the forum for assistance. Granted I was one of the first to encounter the issue because I was up early that morning and I think Aus was one of the first to physically see the changes but none the less when clients start ringing at 8am saying 'I am locked out' and then I find I am also locked out it becomes a problem.

Primarily accounts and sales management is probably where phone support would work best because at least someone can be contacted to look into problems of that sort.

Sydney Water Board are a great example of how phone support could work. When the water stops you call the hotline, but if there is an issue in an area there is always a automated message informing along the lines of "If you are in these areas Y, Z and you are having issues it is because of Z and will be fixed soon, if you have other issues hold the line". This kind of thing can help and i think BC could utilise data centre hotlines like this.

Also BC completely relying on  Twitter for notifications is not so smart. Quite often Twitter is not updated enough and or only happens well after an issue is reported. What if twitter goes down or feed can be delayed? Facebook is never updated and is a total waste of time. I can see that the facebook page is not intended for support notifications but even a setup of additional facebook pages just to tie in with twitter for each data centre is a great way to ensure issues notified at some level outside of twitter.

I totally see the point of a 'paper trail' and for us we also insist from a client any request is made via email just so historically it is tracked and looked back on.

People relate to people and in the end the end user is always a person. It is all to often forgotten in the eyes of a bean counter. There needs to be a balance between traditional and new methods of communication.

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Contributor ,
Jul 22, 2012 Jul 22, 2012

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I like the chat, I like the tickets, the response time is usually okay, sometimes, some days things get pretty frantic and any kind of delay can get frustrating and expensive.

In certain cases I would pay for esculated support on the spot. It makes sense when you're working on a $10k website with 24 hours to launch and you need that answer. I know there's discussion on certain BC members wanting to be treated better than other smaller partners, but I'd suggest that BC offer pre-paid support tickets, like insurance, where a partner might buy a book of '10 super tier tickets' to use during the year in those really critical moments. What a great door prize at the next BC event, a book of '10 super tier tickets'

Good to see all this feedback on support.

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New Here ,
Jul 29, 2012 Jul 29, 2012

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In general, I'm very happy with chat support for small quick issues. However, since Cloud opened, the level 1 support available over chat is often insufficient and needs to be escalated. It is frustrating to wait 24hrs+ for a response. I would definitely pay for a 10 pack of urgent support tickets.

I feel no need for phone support. As Mario and others have said, screenshots and screencasts are sufficient to explain the issue clearly.

When there are system issues, or even if you suspect system issues, don't forget that BC have set up the system status page so we can quickly check if there are any known issues. I am stoked to have this resource, as it makes a big difference to quickly check system status before getting back to a client. (e.g. login not working, website not loading)

http://status.businesscatalyst.com/

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Mentor ,
Aug 05, 2012 Aug 05, 2012

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If you can not log in you can always submit this form http://www.businesscatalyst.com/contact. The link is on our website and support monitors it. So, that solves the "keyless entry" issue. If you can log in and you have an emergency you can submit that also and it will go into a priority queue. Please don't abuse it though and only use it if the site or email is down. All other issues will have be placed inside the normal queue.

-m

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Explorer ,
Aug 06, 2012 Aug 06, 2012

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I think chat support is perfect. I use Jing videos and screen shots, send urls - all of which would not be possible in phone chat. I also get the transcripts emailed, if ever I need to report to a client on the content of support work. (btw Jing is free and cross platform).

That together with support quickly sending thru links to a kb article is excellent.

And my experience of support over the last 2 months or so has been that it is really really good - the guys are really sticking with a problem until they both understand it and have done everything in their power/knowledge to sort it out (incl when to escalate)

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LEGEND ,
Aug 07, 2012 Aug 07, 2012

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I don't have to use the chat often as I usually look here for answers first but when I do, like yesterday, the support has been great. As a matter of fact Rajan wouldn't even let me go until we had it fixed.

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Explorer ,
Aug 08, 2012 Aug 08, 2012

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It appears there is no more tech support chat for us.  New Sheriff in town.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 08, 2012 Aug 08, 2012

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New Sheriff?

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Community Beginner ,
Aug 11, 2012 Aug 11, 2012

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is live chat gone? I can;t see it in the help section anymore? Did I miss an update?

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Adobe Employee ,
Aug 12, 2012 Aug 12, 2012

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Hi Rich,

Live chat is available from Monday to Friday. This is the reason why you can't see it now.

Thanks,

Vlad

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Contributor ,
Sep 02, 2012 Sep 02, 2012

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Just want to add that 'Matt' from chat support did an outstanding job for us just now. Super fast intelligent response solved an important issue for us on the spot.

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LEGEND ,
Sep 02, 2012 Sep 02, 2012

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Matt is a bit of a Legend. Picked up BC way fast. (Not the old Matt if some thinking but Matt Nade also was a legend )

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New Here ,
Sep 02, 2012 Sep 02, 2012

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+1! Matt is very helpful. It was frustrating trying to get help out of the new chat support team when they first started, but I have seen lots of growth in the new chat support team as they learn the product better.

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Community Beginner ,
Sep 06, 2012 Sep 06, 2012

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Dear Vlad:

I have been trying to get someone to email or talk to about your web hosting and optional support programs for the last 3 DAYS. YOUR CUSTOMER SERVICE IS CRAP. I have a number of questions. Not just in BC. And I have asked in the forums and had no response. I subscribe to Creative Cloud and would like to ask questions about BC hosting. I want to buy things from Adobe, but they refuse to let me talk to them! Unbelivable!

When I go to support I have the option, so I thought, of writing an e-mail to the "experts" I tried to do that and found I couldn't ask a question because ADOBE HAS LISTED THE ONLY QUESTIONS I CAN ASK...AND THEN, DIRECTS ME TO A FORUM WITH OTHER USERS ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS! Does Adobe do anything in the Customer Support area except Chat and point people to FORUMS and FAQ'S? They should read a couple of books on the importance of making customers feel like they matter. Most company's wait until AFTER you've bought the product before they stop communicating with you.

I am new to this Adobe system of customer service. I used their Creative Suite, and Adobe Acrobat since 1993 or 1994, and never had this problem. If Adobe/Business Catalyst would like my web hosting and support program business, they should call me sometime today. Because tomorrow morning I'm goin' somewhere else.

And Vlad, your reasonings behind "Chat is Best" may very well be true for some issues. But they aren't valid for a guy with a bunch of questions to be answered before he buys one of your products.

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