33 Replies Latest reply: Feb 25, 2013 6:43 AM by Noel Carboni

I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 1, 2012 4:16 PM

how much RAM does photoshop cs5 extended use with Content-Aware-Fill?

please state the size of the image, how many layers you have (makes a difference).

please do this for 2 different size images.

I could also use some cs6 numbers as well, since this is the current ps.

should be as simple a psd as possible.

I need to know for a 32-bit and a 64-bit machine.

I would like to use these two numbers for making a calculator that does some very basic calculations as to how much memory would be required to run photoshop given:

image size
content-aware fill
radial blur
number of layers
content-aware move (in CS6)

this means several types of test plans:

32-bit ps ext CS5:

different image sizes SMALL and LARGE (these sizes will be used throughout the tests below, save them as PSD's)
SMALL and LARGE with 2 layers
SMALL and LARGE with content-aware fill, like taking out a telephone pole. hit F1 if you don't know how.
SMALL and LARGE with radial blur (this takes a while to run). hit F1 if you don't know how or refer to this: http://ksimonian.com/Blog/2010/02/24/improved-photoshop-benchmark-cpu-speed-test-for-both- mac-pc-free-radial-blur-filter-test/
SMALL and LARGE with content-aware fill and then radial blur (this takes a while to run). this step is purely optional.

64-bit ps ext CS5:

different image sizes SMALL and LARGE (these sizes will be used throughout the tests below, save them as PSD's)
SMALL and LARGE with 2 layers
SMALL and LARGE with content-aware fill, like taking out a telephone pole. hit F1 if you don't know how.
SMALL and LARGE with radial blur (this takes a while to run). hit F1 if you don't know how or refer to this: http://ksimonian.com/Blog/2010/02/24/improved-photoshop-benchmark-cpu-speed-test-for-both- mac-pc-free-radial-blur-filter-test/
SMALL and LARGE with content-aware fill and then radial blur (this takes a while to run). this step is purely optional.

32-bit ps ext CS6:

different image sizes SMALL and LARGE (these sizes will be used throughout the tests below, save them as PSD's)
SMALL and LARGE with 2 layers
SMALL and LARGE with content-aware fill, like taking out a telephone pole. hit F1 if you don't know how.
SMALL and LARGE with radial blur (this takes a while to run). hit F1 if you don't know how or refer to this: http://ksimonian.com/Blog/2010/02/24/improved-photoshop-benchmark-cpu-speed-test-for-both- mac-pc-free-radial-blur-filter-test/
SMALL and LARGE with content-aware fill and then radial blur (this takes a while to run). this step is purely optional.
SMALL and LARGE with content-aware move

64-bit ps ext CS6:

different image sizes SMALL and LARGE (these sizes will be used throughout the tests below, save them as PSD's)
SMALL and LARGE with 2 layers
SMALL and LARGE with content-aware fill, like taking out a telephone pole. hit F1 if you don't know how.
SMALL and LARGE with radial blur (this takes a while to run). hit F1 if you don't know how or refer to this: http://ksimonian.com/Blog/2010/02/24/improved-photoshop-benchmark-cpu-speed-test-for-both- mac-pc-free-radial-blur-filter-test/
SMALL and LARGE with content-aware fill and then radial blur (this takes a while to run). this step is purely optional.
SMALL and LARGE with content-aware move

if you know of a more memory-intensive operation, such as radial blur (maybe that's only cpu-intensive), I would be interested in knowing about this.

the number of layers seem to multiply the RAM required in CS5. I think. the amount of RAM required to do photoshop seems to be a much-talked about subject and the subject of much variableness, and I wanted to nail it down a little.

I thought I would make a calculator that can estimate the amount of RAM required for a system to do, say, multilayer gigapixel content-aware-fill stuff in ps, something I know I would do a lot of. I also hear RAM requirements has changed in CS6. it would be interesting to characterize it.

I am making it here: http://Jesusnjim.com/calculators/photoshop-ram-usage.html

and as soon as I can get some completed set of numbers infor CS5 or , it will be ready

you can tell how much memory us in use by doing [windows-logo-flag-key]taskmgr[Enter] or doing ctrl-alt-del and bringing up the task manager,

clicking on the prcesses tab,and looking for Photoshop.exe

if you don't see mem usage, do View,Select columns.

it's a lot of testing, I know, it should not take too long to finish. but I think it might help a lot of folks when they are trying to figure out how to spec their PS box.

Jim Michaels

something automatically hit the send button before I could finish.

Message was edited by: jmichae1

1. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Sep 1, 2012 6:59 PM (in response to jmichae1)

I've got to tell you, just reading through that is daunting, much less following it and producing measured results.

On occasion I've asked people to try doing things and measuring performance. Usually I get very few answers if any.

By the way, Photomerge seems to need a lot of RAM, and a HUGE amount of scratch disk space.

The bottom line is this: More RAM is better, much more is much better.
I'll add: Lightning fast scratch disk access is observed to be quite helpful.

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
2. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 4, 2012 3:15 PM (in response to Noel Carboni)

1 person usually has only 1 operating system and 1 version of CS, so only 10 or 12 tests need to be done per person.
not that much really. all I would ask is that one of those sections be done as a set. more like a group effort.

People want a number to figure out how much ram to get. one guy was thinking of 64GB. most people say 12GB is way enough. I say it depends on a number of factors. this is why I am writing the calculator. I updated my web page with links to videos and help pages for the items in question from tv.adobe.com and elsewhere.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
3. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Sep 4, 2012 4:36 PM (in response to jmichae1)
One doesn't need to do benchmarks to know that more RAM is better. One need only use Photoshop. You'll get better results if you just ask people two questions:

How much RAM do you have?
Do you feel it's enough?

Sage advice, from someone who uses Photoshop: Get 16 GB at a minimum, more if you can. Right now if I were building a brand new workstation with a certain amount of future-proofing in the plan I'd shoot for at least 48 GB, and settle for 24 GB with some empty slots in a pinch. I have 16 GB now and for almost everything it's enough, but there are times (e.g., when doing a big Photomerge) when I need more.

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
4. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 5, 2012 1:06 AM (in response to Noel Carboni)

heh people laugh at me when I say I want 64GiB of RAM for photoshop and they say nobody would ever use that much. they must be working with just photo touchups and doing nothing else with them. I am trying to do multilayer panos. I projected that I could run out with a 1GP image on just one layer with 64GB RAM and not be able to do content-aware fill, but I only have 1 sample of data, need two for that platform. I suspect that

maybe photoshop just allocates/uses all available memory and kindly leaves a little for the system to run on and this project is a waste,and that is what that memory slider in ps is for. (?)

have to delete previous adobe install and call adobe so I can reinstall and test - not getting much assistance from here, so will have to do things myself, as usual. previous windows installation is hosed, but I keep the data for migration.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
5. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Sep 5, 2012 8:07 AM (in response to jmichae1)

Seems to me a notable Photoshop authority (DigiLloyd as I recall) has stated that 96 GB is preferable.

I am presently negotiating with someone on the configuration of a new workstation with 48 GB, as 96 GB gets a bit pricey still.

I have found that with an SSD array things like stitching gigapixel panoramas even with 16 GB of RAM in the system isn't unreasonably slow. But it does dig into the scratch file to the tune of hundreds of gigabytes!

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
6. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Hudechrome Sep 5, 2012 8:52 AM (in response to Noel Carboni)

Some of this seems more theoretical than practical. As we up the ante, can TB stitches be far behind?

I did a test of the new Nikon D800, producing a 5 panel stitch. I came nowhere near filling up a 39G scratch. In fact, it would not fill up my old 20G scratch. Present RAM is 12G. Watching the memory use in Task Manager showed that, unless I had another memory intensive app open and reserved memory, I never even used up Free Memory size.

Again, from a practical side, I ran the same panorama with the D90. Certainly, the data in the D800 stitch vastly outclassed the D90. But a 36" print of both showed that aside from the difference because of weather conditions between them, hardly any difference in the impact of sharpness was evident. In the case of the D90, it actually looked better due to better lighting.

Of course, when finances permit, I will acquire the D800. No wait! Maybe the D4? Or maybe switch to Canon?

Where does it all stop?

Anyway, using content aware on the D800 stitch used about 3x more time than the D90 image. I used Content Aware to fill in the gaps in the image at the edges due to hand held sweeps of the landscape, It was slow, in the order of minutes not seconds. The only other filter was the WA filter in an attempt to fix an optical distortion of the D800 image which curiously, did nor occur with the D90, even as the angle of view was approximately the same. It ran the change (guesstimate) 2 to 3 min.

I do my best to avoid many layers in post on a stitch. The quality loss dictates that although again the D800 output will mitigate that.

So, if I do go the D800/D4 route, I will need to consider the computer needs again. I don't think 96G of memory will be needed. but from what I could see, 24G would be better.

One photographer's view, anyway.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
7. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Sep 5, 2012 2:13 PM (in response to Hudechrome)

FYI, I just ordered a new workstation with 48 GB. That should be future-proof for a couple of years.

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
8. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 5, 2012 3:06 PM (in response to Hudechrome)

I NEVER seemed to use scratch. wondered what it was there for (maybe it was during the ops? rather than after).
but RAM I was always running out of working with panos. I have currently 3GiB.
these projections I made were with only 1 piece of data,so it's not that good to make projections with. memory usage is not linear, thereis an offset involved, and each feature you use consumes its own separate line (I assume linear) with different slope for that feature. I can see it in my head, I just wish I could describe it sufficiently to you.
http://jesusnjim.com/using-computers/photoshop-memory-how-much.html
this was on CAF.

too bad current desktop systems only handle 32GB or 64GB (i7-3960x/3970x only) of RAM max. I was disappointed when I saw the new xeons come out with 32GB RAM caps. I said in my head "ps users will be upset". maybe I should write to intel support.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
9. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Sep 5, 2012 3:13 PM (in response to jmichae1)

Your stats are in error.

This is the Xeon chip I will have two of on the system I just ordered. Note that it can address up to 288 GB.

http://ark.intel.com/products/52576/Intel-Xeon-Processor-X5690-12M-Cache-3_46-GHz-6_40-GTs -Intel-QPI

This is one of the newest Xeons, which can address up to 750 GB:

http://ark.intel.com/products/64582/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2687W-20M-Cache-3_10-GHz-8_00- GTs-Intel-QPI

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
10. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Hudechrome Sep 5, 2012 3:15 PM (in response to Noel Carboni)

Another Dell or????
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
11. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Sep 5, 2012 3:16 PM (in response to Hudechrome)

Refurbed Precision T5500 with dual X5690s. Just off cutting edge, and much cheaper for it.

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
12. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Hudechrome Sep 5, 2012 3:20 PM (in response to jmichae1)

You cannot help but use scratch or rather PS uses scratch. If you have not configured it, it's on C drive as default, not a good choice.

How does your machine spec out? Also if it's Win7 is it at least Win7 Pro? The Home version is limited in RAM allowable.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
13. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 5, 2012 10:55 PM (in response to Noel Carboni)

windows has memory limitations built into it. it's not just the proc with limitations.
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-performance/need-to-know-more-a bout-virtual-memory-on-64-bit/1fb58b75-9dbb-4c54-b610-85b3197cd10f
I think it was 192GiB or 256GiB maximum addressable memory,which is a shame, because that's nowhere near full 64-bit address space.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
14. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 6, 2012 1:35 AM (in response to jmichae1)

I tend to chew up whatever memory I get just for engineering and development. :-) my biggest problem is the need to reboot every 2-3 days. messes up my nice environment I've built up. :-(
for many many years I have dealt with out of memory errors. you get kind of tired of it after a while. I am also dealing with an 8-year-old slow box. I would like a beefy system where I am not going to have that problem for a while. I hope you understand. my "OCD" is from many years of frustration with very limited 32-bit systems.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
15. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Sep 6, 2012 2:14 AM (in response to jmichae1)

Arbitrary limitations of hundreds of Gigabytes aren't practical limitations at all.

You clearly don't have much experience actually running big 64 bit systems. You should listen to folks who have been doing so since their were 64 bit systems, since your 32 bit experience really isn't very applicable beyond the knowledge that 32 bits isn't enough. That's why I suggested asking the question more simply as "how much do you have and do you feel it is enough?"

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
16. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 16, 2012 5:11 PM (in response to Noel Carboni)
obviously, none of these answers are answers to my original request for testers and data.
I refined my tests by the way. I discovered through detailed testing that:
there was a need for more specific diecctions on some items like 3d and such
a lot of the tests really had no impact. only one that had impact was content-aware-fill at 10x memory cost and layers at 4x memory cost.

the equation goes something like 121MiB+width*height*bpp/8 (multiply widthHeight by 10.759 if you use CAF, multiply widthHeight by numberOfLayers*4.31616 if you use layers)
if you want to use this calculation, easiest way is to get ttcalc. http://sf.net/projects/ttcalc
the 121MiB offset is how much memory PS takes while no images are loaded. will probably be different for your system. this particular value is for 32-bit PS.

I don't have a 64-bit system yet - you will have to wait a while for that. that takes money.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
17. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Sep 16, 2012 5:23 PM (in response to jmichae1)

For what it's worth, I'm going to have a very nice 8 core 64 bit Dell Precision workstation for sale in a few weeks. My new one is on a truck on its way here.

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
18. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

the_wine_snob Sep 16, 2012 5:33 PM (in response to Noel Carboni)

That should be future-proof for a couple of years.
For a couple of hours, at least...

Hunt
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
19. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 16, 2012 5:41 PM (in response to jmichae1)

does ps on 64-bit windows use VM also and not just RAM? I suspect that memory clider in edit/prefs/performance does,I just wanted to be sure. if it does, then you would see the slider go to 256GB, which is the max for windows 7 - this would be available disk space,if you have a 2TB disk.

if it does not work with VM and only worjks with RAM, then it will be as low as 62GB or less,whatever RAM you have.
I would be curious to know which...
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
20. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Sep 16, 2012 7:59 PM (in response to jmichae1)

Yes, it manages memory and writes data to scratch on a 64 bit system. Plenty of it.

But the memory configuration maxes out at the available RAM in the system, not 256 GB as you have guessed. That configuration entry allows you to set the limit of how much of your real RAM you'll allow Photoshop to use.

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
21. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Hudechrome Sep 16, 2012 9:33 PM (in response to jmichae1)

"I don't have a 64-bit system yet - you will have to wait a while for that. that takes money."

Then I won't hold my breath!
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
22. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 16, 2012 9:35 PM (in response to Noel Carboni)

I didn't say *scratch* this is a separate photoshop thing. I am talking about Virtual Memory that the OS allocates. it swaps ram out to disk when there isn't enough RAM. otherwise known in the CPU world as "paging". these are typically 4K pages. with the new hard disks this would be the size of the new sector sizes. old disk sector sizes were 512 bytes. windows 7 and vista make provision for that.

maybe you can still check this out for me. what does your slider say in your current 64-bit box for maximum under edit, preferences, performance?
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
23. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 16, 2012 11:32 PM (in response to jmichae1)

I made a mistake in a calculation for the layers factor. it is not 4x. it is somewhere around 2.893x - it varies between 2.1 and 3.0 I guess. that's just with loading an different image into the layer. I have not even tried drawing on it. this would probably increase the factor and should probably be dealt with separately - it seems drawing in a new layer is just approximately the size of a different image loaded into a layer.

so I fed the new results into my calculator. http://Jesusnjim.com/calculators/photoshop-ram-usage.html
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
24. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Sep 17, 2012 9:15 AM (in response to jmichae1)

jmichae1 wrote:

maybe you can still check this out for me. what does your slider say in your current 64-bit box for maximum under edit, preferences, performance?

Reading all of what you've written - and please don't take this the wrong way, it's great that you're trying to get your head around how things work - you don't really understand how Photoshop manages and uses RAM. It's not nearly as simple as you'd like to think.

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
25. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 25, 2012 1:36 AM (in response to Noel Carboni)

I appreciate that it's complex. but did you try the calculator for the operations it supports and does it work for those? I am going to comment-out unneeded sections of my test plan page so it's less strenuous (you won't see them). this will reduce the test plan a LOT.

my 3GiB system gives me about 1.2GiB in ps. your (probably 16GiB system) seems to give you about 14GiB. I just wanted to know for personal reasons to see how this scaled for 64-bit larger-RAM systems (I'm excited about a new system). apparently the OS and background programs are taking about 2GiB on both of our systems. yes?

I think the principles about CAF I discovered apply quite well to PS. layers are another matter. it seems to be a bit more variable, depending on a factor like layer content.
drawing is not simplistic, I can assure you as a programmer. bitmap images are much more simplistic, having pretty much no choice but to be represented as a standard bitmap in memory. and then there are smart objects, which I am not getting into. the palette-based images you can represent with bpp.

the page update should be done by tonight if I don't run into problems with the program to generate bpp-to-number-of-colors table.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
26. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 25, 2012 1:38 AM (in response to Noel Carboni)

I need something I can nail down.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
27. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 25, 2012 4:22 AM (in response to Noel Carboni)

Noel, I am beginning to wonder if you think scratch disk=Virtual Memory=RAM. they are not the same. I think this could be a common misconception in the photoshop community. I was wondering if you have been watching scratch disk sizes instead of RAM usage. I prefer to watch from the OS's point of view. it can show spikes and such, and I want to try to catch those. I don't pay attention toscratch disk anymore,people have plenty of that usually.

VM peaks are probably best captured using performance monitor (perfmon.exe) though, since there is no peak measure in task mgr per process.
it's interesting,sometimes RAM goes up and sometimes VM really goes up instead of RAM.

I personally think ps is manually allocating VM and RAM separately instead of dealing with a normal heap. this is REALLY unusual, and I think done for performance reasons,but not such a good idea when it comes to memory limitations! because when you hit the RAM limit for CAF, (and you hit it FAST),you are out - there ain't no more. scratch disk? sorry,you get the "ps out of memory" error. I had tons of scratch disk, to no avail. the reason why is it allocates pure RAM and only RAM,no VM. normally programs allocate via the heap, which will allocate RAM first, and if it goes over that, allocate VM. this is the way it's supposed to work with paged memory processors like intel and AMD. but not ps. it bypasses this,probably through some win32 API calls or ioctl's or something.

yes, I think you CAN characterize some of the items. CAF was pretty near consistent. qty layers was pretty flaky though,but it had a decent range at least.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
28. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Sep 25, 2012 6:42 AM (in response to jmichae1)

Jmichae1, I know how it all works, and I know what to watch. I'm a career computer software engineer.

Photoshop doesn't work the way other applications work, on purpose. And it doesn't work consistently from feature to feature. Understand that it's been implemented by hundreds of people and multiple different companies over several decades. It does not follow a single "design".

jmichae1 wrote:

I personally think ps is manually allocating VM and RAM separately instead of dealing with a normal heap. this is REALLY unusual, and I think done for performance reasons,but not such a good idea when it comes to memory limitations!

You're starting to catch on.

Search for a very long conversation on Photoshop RAM usage in which I, Chris Cox and a number of others discussed this. As I recall at the time I characterized Photoshop as a "child in a playground who gathers all the toys and holds them".

Here, I've found it for you: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/786514?start=0&tstart=0

Not too much has changed since the time of Photoshop CS4, and we can see evidence that disparate subsystems are working in Photoshop CS6. There's the "Mondo Virtual Memory" system that occasionally dumps ..._MVM_... files on whatever disk it feels like, for example.

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
29. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 26, 2012 12:02 AM (in response to Noel Carboni)

ahh. thank you for the link. very interesting point about opengl - I will remember that.
also have not run into problems where "mondo VM dumps core". waitaminnit, yes I have. it's not fun. as the disk churns....
well, anyway, I am learning this stuff purely as a user/computer repairman/software engineer (systems architect? still trying tofigure out if I am one or not).

I also understand that (I think) because of history+undo, once you have performed an operation, those operations also stay in memory (take resize for example). and this is why in the link above you pointed out and Chris Cox was trying to answer, the RAM/VM increases and increases the more ops you do. yes? I just wonder what good values the history should be set for... because I set mine for 50. I thought ps's defaults were way too low.

this makes calculating memory usage also nigh-to-impossible (not so cut-an-dried)! and I should point this out in my calculator, yes? this is simple addition of any extra ops like a list, yes?

seems like it's a compendium of all the features, and maybe some things I don't know about... but I still assume bitmaps are stored as simple arrays or bitmaps (for simplicity), but in order to get more image density I suppose the images could possibly be stored as huffman or LZW or RLE coding (doubtful due to statistical frequency) or something, and this could be implemented as "bitmap memory access functions (an API layer)", a read and a write - would be slower, but you can pack more image into less memory, and workstations that formerly could only handle 200MP images could now handle larger images. I could be wrong. Just theorizing. you don't have to answer that.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
30. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Sep 26, 2012 5:10 AM (in response to jmichae1)

I personally keep my History states set to 100, because I occasionally like to use the History panel to go back a good ways for various reasons. But then I've bought a lot of RAM to be able to do that reasonably.

Yes, RAM usage continues to increase as you use Photoshop, up to the preset limit you've configured in the Performance preferences - and once it's allocated Photoshop is reluctant to give it back to the OS, though it will do so under duress.

It also writes quite a lot of data to its scratch files, which is where it swaps the data from RAM. This is separate from the OS page swap file, but there can be interaction, especially if you try to start applications that will use more than what's been left free by Photoshop.

Documents are always stored in RAM in uncompressed form as far as I know, to facilitate speed of operations. The compression only happens when written to disk. Further, depending on your Cache Levels configuration Photoshop will create downsized copies of the image to facilitate showing zoomed-out previews very quickly.

There is nothing simple about this application.

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
31. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Sep 26, 2012 7:51 PM (in response to Noel Carboni)
you said pretty much what I was trying to say but during the edit process I forgot the bit about the slider... :-) thanks.

thank you for the tip about history.

I can see 2 more features to add, which will be excellent together:
the equivalent of topaz infocus plugin (terrific plugin) to fix out-of-focus "blur"
smart kernel-based camera-shake "blur" fix such as adobe was going to offer in a future version of ps
*combine* these two, and you will have a powerful solution which can fix any kind of blur problem. blur problems are not just camera shake alone. there are 2 types of blur I have seen on the internet. these two. out of focus and camera shake.

Message was edited by: jmichae1 added word fix
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
32. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

jmichae1 Feb 25, 2013 12:45 AM (in response to Noel Carboni)
the numbers basically would form a linear graph in memory usage when it comes to things like
number of layers
image size
I am not throwing away my data because someone is poo-pooing it.
CAF is just an 11x multiplier in every case I have used it. I am curious what the cs6 new content-[fill-in-the-blank] features use for memory. and I probably can't get anyone else to test it for me, because nobody seems to know how that I have met on the forums except me (I have been doing testing for 27 years and design/development for as long as I can remember - am I getting that old?).
the numbers in these cases are linear, for initial operations (I should qualify that on the page). as you said (according to my numbers), subsequent ops cause increased memory usage. I see this in soundbooth, to the point of out of memory error and crash.
I didn't do graphs because I didn't think it was worth it. I have proved my point to myself.
I think looking back I should have expressed more of what I found (and you guys have just stated it). page editing takes a lot of thought. I guess I missed that 1 necessary thing I noticed and didn't pay enough attention to - ps RAM usage growth from ops doesn't quit until you close it.

found out ps ram usage is not a compendium of all the features (maybe the major ones). the filters use pretty much no noticeable RAM.
adjustments don't either I don't think (haven't tested that).

I just want to help others who are trying to size a new box and don't know how much RAM to get if they are doing a 40x27 poster. and which type of machine: a desktop, laptop, or workstation (which can handle more memory). and which OS (windows 8 handles 512GiB max, windows 7 handles 192GiB max, windows server standard handles multi-terabytes of RAM). why? because I have to size one for myself! and I have some large images I will be working with.

Memory Limits for Windows Releases (Windows)
very few people know about this memory limitation on windows, but it's keenly felt when someone is buying a workstation. microsoft publishes the memory limits on its software for issues like this.
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions
33. Re: I do a lot ofhow much RAM does ps cs5/6 ext use with CAF?

Noel Carboni Feb 25, 2013 6:43 AM (in response to jmichae1)

Reviewing this thread after some time, a couple of things come to mind:

1. RAM has gotten quite cheap. Anyone buying a new system with which to use Photoshop would be irresponsible not to configure at LEAST 16 GB of RAM, which (depending on the architecture) is less than a hundred bucks.

2. Another aspect to Photoshop and RAM usage is that it has its own virtual memory management system - meaning that if it fills the RAM to the limit you've specified, it will start writing data out of RAM into its scratch files to make more room for more data in RAM - e.g., the result of the next filter or function you run.

Something many folks don't realize even yet is that a single SSD can kick up performance by as much as 5 times over even very good spinning hard drives. Putting multiple SSDs in a RAID setup can easily multiply that to well over 10x and beyond.

With 10x or more of the mass storage performance of a traditional hard drive on tap, Photoshop simply reads and writes to its scratch files in near real time. What I mean by this is that if you have a monster image and lots of history steps, and do big operations, and you fill your RAM allocation, Photoshop will swap data to its scratch files but you hardly notice it. Same thing with the system itself.

My point is that when considering the purchase of a new system to run Adobe software and which should be a bit future-proof, it may well be more important how you provision your system with mass storage than RAM.

SSDs are still more expensive than HDDs, but they've come down in price a lot and you really do get what you pay for. As an example, 4 x 256GB high-end SSDs (e.g., OCZ Vector) will set you back almost $1000, but if you have a motherboard (or controller) that can make a 1 TB 4 drive RAID 0 array with SATA III connections, you can achieve almost 2 gigabytes per second of sustained I/O throughput. And it doesn't thrash if you have multiple applications and the OS accessing it simultaneously.

-Noel
Like Show 0 Likes (0)

Actions