1 2 Previous Next 55 Replies Latest reply on Nov 24, 2014 9:56 AM by tranqfx

    Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???

    MikeKPhoto Level 2

      Working on a collage and have a relatively scall document, 6"x10" at 300dpi and used the Place command to add images and arrange and have 14 layers. The images were resized to fit using the Transform scale too. Was watching the document size at the lower left of the document window and it showed that the Doc was 34.3 M/178 M. Looked good so I went to save the beast as a PSD. At 75% of the save it threw an error message saying the document was greater than 2GB in size. Hmm, why did the doc size show otherwise. So ended up saving as a PSB whic worked. But the responsiveness of my system went to hell until I shut down Photoshop. I mean it was almost unresponsive. Starting Photoshop again, opening the PSB and making a few changes and my system was flying again. So maybe processing the PSD then throwing the error managed to grab all the resources. 

       

      So maybe there are two issues I have seen, one is Photoshop reporting the wrong doc size and the other bad error processing?

       

      Photoshop CS6 with the latest patch applied, Windows 7 x64 with 16GB RAM, i7 processor.

       

      Here are a couple of screen shots that show the doc size problem

       

      Mike

       

       

      Capture1.JPGCapture2.JPG

        • 1. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
          sudarshan.t Level 6

          What you see on the left is the print size (flattened layers) and right is with layers intact.

           

          When you save your PSD file, if you have enabled 'Maximize Compatibility' to be able to work between other versions of Photoshop, Photoshop adds a hidden flattened layer to the file, thereby doubling the filesize. If you uncheck 'Maximize Compatibility' while saving your file (you cannot preview your document elsewhere and you cannot work on a lower version of Photoshop in this case), Photoshop only saves the layers to file, ignoring the flattened version. This filesize will exactly be what you see under 'Document Sizes' in Status bar.

           

          It's a call you have to make. If you're sure you wont be using this PSD file on a lower config system/ anywhere outside of Photoshop, you can uncheck 'Maximize Compatibility'. If you want to always disable 'Maximize Compatibility', you can goto Photoshop Preferences > File Handling > Maximize PSD & PSB File Compatibility - Never (See screenshot below).

           

          psbcompatibility.jpg

           

          Trust this helps!

          • 2. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
            MikeKPhoto Level 2

            Thanks for getting back to me, but maybe it's me as I am still confused with the numbers being displayed. By the way I do have Maximise Compatibility turned on.

             

            You say the left hand number is the Flattened file size and that makes sense. But you say the number to the right is the size of the document with all the layers intact, which in my case is 180.5 M (see my screen shot from my original post), now when saving, with maximum compatibility turned on the file size would double - this would then be a 361 MB file. OK so far; but how come there is such a large difference from what Photoshop is saying the file size is compared to the real file size which is over 2 GB - see the error message screen shot in my original post. The numbers don't add up from your decription.

             

            So how to we account for the additional 1.6GB difference from your description?

             

            Mike

            • 3. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
              conroy Level 5

              .

              Sudarshan, sorry, but there is much to say regarding some of your post.

               

              Sudarshan Thiagarajan wrote:

               

              When you save your PSD file, if you have enabled 'Maximize Compatibility' to be able to work between other versions of Photoshop, Photoshop adds a hidden flattened layer to the file, thereby doubling the filesize.

               

              Maximize Compatibility results in more than a flattened composite of the document being embedded in the file. A compatibility rasterization of each layer is embedded in the file, too. The file size could be increased to less than double, or it could be inflated a hundred-fold or more when a document contains vector Shape layers and Type layers.

               

              If you uncheck 'Maximize Compatibility' while saving your file (you cannot preview your document elsewhere and you cannot work on a lower version of Photoshop in this case), Photoshop only saves the layers to file, ignoring the flattened version.

               

              Maximize Compatibility is not necessary for an older version of Photoshop to be able to work with a document. If an older version of Ps doesn't support a feature of a layer, Ps will substitute the compatibility raster for the layer if the raster is available, otherwise the layer minus the unsupported feature is used.

               

              This filesize will exactly be what you see under 'Document Sizes' in Status bar.

               

              PSD file size will not be either of the numbers shown by "Document Size" in the status bar. Each layer can contribute significantly less or more to the file size than it contributes to the second number in the "Document Size" status display.

              • 4. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                conroy Level 5

                Mike, I guess your imported and transformed images were placed into the document as Smart Objects. A SO can massively bloat the size of a document. A SO will contain an embedded duplicate of its source image file plus a rendered raster representation of the file's content.

                 

                Only the memory footprint of an SO's raster representation is added to the second number in the "Document Size" status display. After a downscaling transform, the resulting raster representation may consume significantly fewer bytes than the quantity of PSD file bytes consumed by the SO's embedded file and raster representation.

                 

                When the document is saved to a file, the SO's embedded file and raster representation, despite the raster now being compressed, may consume more storage than the SO's contribution to the "Document Size" in the status bar. If Maximize Compatibility is enabled, then a further lossless-compressed raster representation of the SO layer will be embedded in the document. Maximize Compatibility will also add a composite of a document to a file.

                • 5. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                  sudarshan.t Level 6

                  Do you have a lot of smart objects in your document? Smart Objects aren't accurately calculated in Photoshop's Status bar Document Sizes. And the compression differs with various formats, also depending on the actual image content itself.

                  1 person found this helpful
                  • 6. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                    sudarshan.t Level 6

                    I'm just seeing your reply, conroy. I guess I was posting my reply in the meantime.

                    • 7. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                      MikeKPhoto Level 2

                      Yes, they were "Placed" as smart objects, and I guessed that was the source of the bloat, but my concern was the "Bloat" and how far off the document sizes were against reality. If there was a more accurate number I would have automatically saved as a PSB and not even attempted to save as a PSD.

                       

                      So I guess one might ask the question of the value of displaying the document sizes if they are so innacurate.

                       

                      Also I can replicate the other problem I mentioned of all system resources being consumed while trying to save as a PSD, the error message is not immediate but is thrown 75% into the save process. Feels like the code to compute the "real" file size has some problems, as I think it should be immediate and not 3/4's of the way through the save process, and to get decent performance back required a restart of Photoshop.

                       

                      Methinks Adobe could do some homework here....

                       

                      Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated.

                       

                      Mike

                      • 8. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                        conroy Level 5

                        The "Document Size" status isn't inaccurate, as far as I know. You may be expecting it to display the size of file that will be created when saving the document, but that's not it's function.

                         

                        In any case, Photoshop cannot know what the file size will be in advance of saving. The data in the file will be compressed and the amount of compression cannot be known until the process has been performed.

                        • 9. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                          MikeKPhoto Level 2

                          In a discussion topic of many months ago I was suggesting that the PSB format become the norm, that way you don't have to worry about finding out too late that a file save will not work for a PSD. This little happening has convinced me that is the way to go, at least for me. I don't have to worry about backward compatibility, but having a save work the first time removes a level of frustration. The doc size seems to work OK with non-smart objects; working with files from my D800 and multi-row panoramas I can easily get files in the 2-4 GB range and the doc size seems pretty accurate with just regular layers so I know right away to save as a PSB - just an issue with SO's.

                           

                          Mike

                          • 10. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                            sudarshan.t Level 6

                             

                             

                            It's a known problem for most of us. Luckily you're one of us. Unfortunately, for some beginners they're unaware that PSD cannot save files more than 2Gigs. Why don't you file a feature request with what you feel Adobe should do with this scenario here? http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family

                            • 11. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                              JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                              MikeKPhoto wrote:

                               

                              Working on a collage and have a relatively scall document, 6"x10" at 300dpi and used the Place command to add images and arrange and have 14 layers. The images were resized to fit using the Transform scale too. Was watching the document size at the lower left of the document window and it showed that the Doc was 34.3 M/178 M. Looked good so I went to save the beast as a PSD. At 75% of the save it threw an error message saying the document was greater than 2GB in size. Hmm, why did the doc size show otherwise. So ended up saving as a PSB whic worked. But the responsiveness of my system went to hell until I shut down Photoshop.

                              Mike

                              A small document 6" x 10" at 300 dpi layerd PSD even with 14 Smart object layers that have embedded RAW file objects I do not think should exceed 2GB in file size. Something seems strange to me.  Lets say your raw files are 50MB each 14 of them would not add up to 1GB closer to .5GB.  The rendered composit is 6" x 10" at 300 DPI  1800 px by 30000  at 16 bit color depth that is 32,400,000 bytes less then 33MB uncompressed. I do not understand where the >2GB is comming from.

                               

                              You may want to have a look at my free Photoshop Photo Collage Toolkit Documentation and Examples

                              Note: There is a bug in CS6 if you use my scripts please set your Photoshop Interpolation preference from Adobe Default setting "Bicubic Automatic". Adobe failed to add support for this new setting in CS6 scripting, Photoshop will produce and internal error when my script tries to retrive your preference if that is your setting.

                              • 12. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                MikeKPhoto Level 2

                                Thanks, these files are less that 50 MB and they are straight PSD files with the same color space. But I may have a handle on this, still testing though. Some of my source files have layers and these would remain intact as they are Smart Objects, but the largest with layers is only a tad over 100 MB and say they were all that big that is only 1.4GB not 2.1GB so something is not right.

                                 

                                I do not have a problem working with large files, I do multi-row panoramas using a D800 and those files can get to over 4GB in a hurry, but the doc size is pretty accurate and shows it exceeds the PSD file size so it is natural to save as a PSB. The problem using Smart Objects is the DOC size shown is no where near reality and my case showed 180.5 MB (screen print in original post) so there is no way to see that it is futile trying to save as a PSD, the only indication you get is when the save bombs out telling you the file is too big - argh! Also when it bombs it looks as if all the resources are locked as performance goes to zero not just with PS but the system as a whole, and to free up the resources requires a close of Photoshop. Not a good process flow at all. With the newer cameras D800 at 36 MP and a rumoured 46 MP Canon this is going to become an issue in a hurry - so either Adobe can give us some sort of clue about the real file size rather than a save abort - or we will need to standardize on the PSB format

                                 

                                I do not do many collages, and this was a favor for a local non-profit I have been working for.

                                 

                                By the way I have opened a thread at http://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/photoshop_doc_size_misleading_inform ation for this bugaboo

                                Cheers

                                 

                                Mike

                                • 13. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                  JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                                  If you have 14 Smart Object layers that have embedded PSD file objects saving a layer file could be quite quite latge. Sill if all are in the 100MG size range it still does not add up to >2GB.

                                   

                                  As for DOC size that has nothing to do with File size. I would guess it may something like the combined size of each layer rendered pixels. 14 6"x10" 300 DPI layers with no tramsparency would only be about 400MB with transparency  a much lower number like 180MB seems OK to me.  Including the Embedded smart Objects size might scare users......

                                  • 14. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                    conroy Level 5

                                    .

                                    For each SO, the main file size will increase by the size of the file contained inside the SO plus the size of the document's raster representation of the SO's content.

                                     

                                    If Maximize Compatibility is enabled then there will be a further compatibility image for each SO layer, a compatibility image of each other layer and a composite of the document added to the file size.

                                     

                                    Are you taking all these possible additional images into account?

                                    • 15. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                      Noel Carboni Level 8

                                      Makes you wonder whether the S in SO stands for "Supersize" or something...

                                       

                                      Is there a real downside to just developing a raw file into pixels once up front and just using them?  Sorry, was just thinking out loud. 

                                       

                                      -Noel

                                      • 16. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                        conroy Level 5

                                        .

                                        Much graphics software will allow you to choose whether to link files instead of embedding them. I was linking image files placed into PageMaker documents about 20 years ago, so why the heck isn't linking provided as an option in CS6?

                                         

                                        There is a third-party plug-in for linking SO content but I don't trust it to be reliable.

                                        • 17. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                          MikeKPhoto Level 2

                                          I think this thread is taking a wrong turn, I am not complaining of the file size - it could be 4 GB and I would still be happy, what my concern is there is no indication of the file size that will allow you to make the decision to save as a PSB rather than a PSD.

                                           

                                          When I stitch a bunch of images together for a multi-row pano the doc size on the right (size in memory according to Chris C) is pretty accurate, and when I see the doc size is 3 GB I automatically save as a PSB; in this case the size in memory was only 180.5 MB whic led me down the path to save as a PSD, which Photoshop immediately accepted and was not until 75% through the save that it threw the file size too big error. Big time waster as I had to struggle through a save with the system at a crawl then restart photoshop to get decent performance back - my guess is photoshop holds onto the resources for the big erroneous save and does not give it back.

                                           

                                          So I am interested in being given a realistic piece of information that would dictate what format to save in.

                                           

                                          MK

                                          • 18. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                            conroy Level 5

                                            Mike, did you save the file with Maximize Compatibility? That's a significant piece of information which may help solve the puzzle.

                                            • 19. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                              Noel Carboni Level 8

                                              Is there a flaw in the strategy of "try to save as PSD and if that fails save as PSB"?  That's not a terminal condition in some way, is it?

                                               

                                              I'm all for using PSB full time save for the few things that aren't compatible (yet) with that format.

                                               

                                              -Noel

                                              • 20. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                MikeKPhoto Level 2

                                                As I mentioned earlier - PSB looks the way to go, but the lock up of Photoshop trying to save as a PSD could have been fatal as it was virtually unresponsive and needed a restart to get the performance back. But the indications Photoshop gave me told me that a PSD would work - wrong - not nice to find out in the middle of a save

                                                • 21. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                  MikeKPhoto Level 2

                                                  Yes maximize compatibility is turned on, it is by default as I send files to clients that use PS CS3, CS4 and CS5 oh and Photoshop 7 - cannot convince the rascal to upgrade

                                                   

                                                  Mike

                                                  • 22. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                    conroy Level 5

                                                    That's what I thought. As I said twice already, that will create a raster compatibility image for each layer and a document composite. That's 15 additional images in your 14 SO file, plus an image for each of any other layer that you haven't mentioned. And remember, the document also contains 14 rasterizations in your 14 SOs as well as the 14 files embedded in the SOs

                                                    • 23. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                      Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                      MikeKPhoto wrote:

                                                       


                                                      As I mentioned earlier - PSB looks the way to go, but the lock up of Photoshop trying to save as a PSD could have been fatal as it was virtually unresponsive and needed a restart to get the performance back.

                                                       

                                                      I just wanted to be clear on that.

                                                       

                                                      This is the real problem - it should not lock up or become less responsive!

                                                       

                                                      If you found out in the middle of a save that PSD was insufficient (via the message you showed above), then you could happily save as PSB instead, then keep merrily working along, would you be looking so hard at this "estimate the size ahead of time" workaround?

                                                       

                                                      Adobe should address the root cause here.

                                                       

                                                      I'm going to try to reproduce the problem here to see whether such a lock up is systemic or something maybe we could look at tuning your system to avoid.

                                                       

                                                      -Noel

                                                      • 24. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                        Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                        Okay, there's definitely something more than meets tye eye going on here.

                                                         

                                                        I placed 13 photos as smart objects in a collage 10000 x 10000 pixels in size.  Photoshop showed 1.27G in the status panel.

                                                         

                                                        I saved as PSD with Maximize Compatibility turned on.  The save worked, and the file ended up about 1.4 gigabytes as a PSD.

                                                         

                                                        Collage.jpg

                                                         

                                                        MaxCompat.png

                                                         

                                                        FileSize.png

                                                         

                                                         

                                                        What else did you do in your file besides just place a bunch of raw files as smart objects and transform them?

                                                         

                                                        -Noel

                                                        • 25. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                          MikeKPhoto Level 2

                                                          Nothing, just 14 placed files as SO's with the originals ranging from a file size between 50 MB and 100 MB, most had a few layers

                                                           

                                                          Here is a shot of the layers - nothing out of the ordinary (just cannot show all 14 layers)

                                                           

                                                          Capture3.JPG

                                                           

                                                          Capture4.JPG

                                                           

                                                          And here is the shot of the saved PSB showing the doc sizes

                                                           

                                                          So there is something screwy with this file as it now shows the size in memory as 178 MB with the size on disk being 2.1 GB.

                                                           

                                                          Noel, were your images flattened before you Placed them into your doc? This might be a clue or not, and as you can see I has a transparent background - strange

                                                           

                                                          Mike

                                                          • 26. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                            Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                            The one fundamental difference is that I placed raw files that had been opened as smart objects.  I'll look at this some more tomorrow.

                                                             

                                                            -Noel

                                                            • 27. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                              conroy Level 5

                                                              .

                                                              Mike, have you disabled compression?

                                                               

                                                              Screen shot 2012-09-26 at 14.37.26.png

                                                              • 28. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                                conroy Level 5

                                                                Here's a 1800 x 3000 pixels collage which measures 100 MB in the Document Size status and which saves with compression to 745 MB, and without compression to 810 MB. The independant (i.e. not instanced) SOs each contain a 69 MB PSB (4000 x 3000 pixels).

                                                                 

                                                                The ratio of Document Status size to file size seems similar to Mike's example.

                                                                 

                                                                 

                                                                Screen shot 2012-09-26 at 15.04.03.png

                                                                • 29. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                                  Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                                  Noel Carboni wrote:

                                                                   


                                                                  I'll look at this some more tomorrow.

                                                                   

                                                                  I just added another image to my file, a 272 megabyte PSD placed as a smart object, and that pushed it over the edge, even though the document size is listed at 1.42G:

                                                                   

                                                                  DocSize.png

                                                                   

                                                                  LargerThan2GB.png

                                                                   

                                                                  HOWEVER...

                                                                   

                                                                  I could not reproduce a subsequent problem with Photoshop.  I was simply able to confirm the above dialog then File - Save As, PSB and continue working on the document normally.

                                                                   

                                                                  Is it because I have a lot of RAM and/or fast disks?  Notably Photoshop is using only 12.2 GB of RAM at this point, where I have it configured to use up to 44 GB.

                                                                   

                                                                  I think we need to focus on why Mike finds Photoshop unusable after this issue, because it's not seen on every system.

                                                                   

                                                                  Mike, did you do a lot more editing while the document was trying to save as PSD?   Or did you wait for it?

                                                                   

                                                                  -Noel

                                                                  • 30. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                                    Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                                    MikeKPhoto wrote:

                                                                     

                                                                    I think this thread is taking a wrong turn, I am not complaining of the file size

                                                                     

                                                                    I don't mean to be critical, Mike, but this comment needs revisiting I think.

                                                                     

                                                                    You have in your mind a way you want to work, in which you embed a bunch of other PSD files in your document as smart objects, then arrange them in collage fashion.

                                                                     

                                                                    Focus on the fact that your work product is only going to be 6"x10" at 300 ppi.  That's 1800 x 3000 pixels - a 5.4 megapixel image - and we're talking about using up Photoshop's maximum PSD file size of 2 GB here!

                                                                     

                                                                    I appreciate your desire to make Photoshop work the way you want it to, but why not consider placing the images as flattened raster layers?  Work at a higher resolution if you're concerned about losing quality in moving them around and rotating them, but you should really ask yourself:  Why do I want to fight with this ridiculous "smart object" embedding scheme and fight with such a huge file size instead of doing it the prudent way and ending up with a file that's much more efficient?

                                                                     

                                                                    Your primary issue is still the fact that your system doesn't seem to hold up under the stress of working on such a large dataset, but making a change to your workflow could alleviate you from ever having to stress it so hard.

                                                                     

                                                                    I have one of the better workstations on the planet now, and clearly it can handle this kind of work no problem, but I still wouldn't consider doing it this way.

                                                                     

                                                                    -Noel

                                                                    • 31. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                                      conroy Level 5

                                                                      Noel Carboni wrote:

                                                                       

                                                                      I think we need to focus on why Mike finds Photoshop unusable after this issue, because it's not seen on every system.

                                                                       

                                                                       

                                                                      I agree.  The Document Size total is misleading by not including embedded document sizes, but the file size isn't so surprising when the structure of Mike's document and the use of Maximize Compatibility is considered. The real problem is Photoshop becoming unusable until relaunched.

                                                                      • 32. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                                        Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                                        By the way, I don't like to give out advice without proving the concept, so I just went through an exercise where I created a 6 x 10 inch image at 1200 ppi, then placed 16 files on it as raster images, then sizing and tilting them.

                                                                         

                                                                        Everything was much more responsive, the file shows taking 1.21G in RAM, but saves as a 591 MB PSD file.

                                                                         

                                                                        RasterCollageScreen.jpg

                                                                         

                                                                        -Noel

                                                                        • 33. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                                          MikeKPhoto Level 2

                                                                          OK a few more tidbits.

                                                                           

                                                                          My system is more than snappy working with file sizes in the 4GB range, I mentioned earlier that I work with Multi-row panoramas taken with my D800, not a problem andmy system is more than responsive.

                                                                           

                                                                          The problem of performance came up when I tried to save as a PSD; Photoshop did not complain up front and let me try to save as a PSD. Then exactly 75% of the way through the safe process Photoshop throws the error telling me the file size limit has been reached - that's when the system become more than unresponsive. So I am guessing that all the resources and more were consumed by the abortive save. Once in that very, very slow state it took forever to save as a PSB. Once saved and Photoshop restarted all was back to normal.

                                                                           

                                                                          Maybe I should have realized that the file size was greater than indicated, but that was not my thought train at the time, and was more concentrating on the publishing deadline of the client - the image needed to go up on their web site and off to the printer later that afternoon.

                                                                           

                                                                          If I ever get to do another, I now know I will work with flattened source images and will save as a PSB.  But concerns still remain, they are:

                                                                           

                                                                          • Why cannot Photoshop not catch the file size error earlier, rather than hitting the limit and then throwing the error
                                                                          • Can the error processing be improved such that system resources are not retained after an abortive save
                                                                          • Can Photoshop be enhanced to give a realistic indication of file size to aid in what format to save

                                                                           

                                                                          Mike

                                                                          • 34. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                                            Level 7

                                                                            >> Why cannot Photoshop not catch the file size error earlier, rather than hitting the limit and then throwing the error

                                                                             

                                                                            Because it doesn't come with a crystal ball?

                                                                            Photoshop tries to estimate file sizes and warn early if it thinks the file size will exceed the limits.  But that's just an estimate.  Sometimes it comes down to compression results, extra metadata, etc. that pushes the document over the limit.  That's when we have to write the file and catch the error that it went over 2 Gig.

                                                                             

                                                                            System resources are released after the aborted save. It's just like you did the save then returned to normal usage.  I'm not sure why it was slow on your system, but most likely a lot of data was written out to scratch, or the OS was still buffering the failed file.

                                                                             

                                                                            We can't provide a great predictor of file size until we know what format you are using and what options you chose when saving -- ie: when saving.  We might be able to improve the in memory estimate, once we know why your documents are showing such a low size in memory.

                                                                            • 35. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                                              conroy Level 5

                                                                              Chris Cox wrote:

                                                                               

                                                                              We might be able to improve the in memory estimate, once we know why your documents are showing such a low size in memory.

                                                                               

                                                                              Maybe you skipped much of this thread. The "Document Size" status does not include the size of files embedded in Smart Objects. Mike's document contained 14 SOs containing files, each file being 50 to 100 MB. So about 1 GB was missing from the displayed status.

                                                                               

                                                                              Also, Mike's file was saved with Maximize Compatibility which adds a fair amount to the file size when there's 14 SOs in a 1800 x 3000 pixel document. Obviously, "Document Size" cannot be expected to account for that.

                                                                              • 36. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                                                JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                                                                                Noel Carboni wrote:

                                                                                 

                                                                                I appreciate your desire to make Photoshop work the way you want it to, but why not consider placing the images as flattened raster layers?  Work at a higher resolution if you're concerned about losing quality in moving them around and rotating them, but you should really ask yourself:  Why do I want to fight with this ridiculous "smart object" embedding scheme and fight with such a huge file size instead of doing it the prudent way and ending up with a file that's much more efficient?

                                                                                Noel

                                                                                I can not answer for Mike but I can tell you why I do collages some what like Mike placing user image file in as they are.  Populated Collages done that way are still Photoshop Layer Documents and can be tweaked by the user.  If you flatten and change image files on the user you destroy work that they have done creating layered images so they can be tweaked using these layers. The way I look at it is populated collages are works in progress untill they ready for final output. Flattening and Pasting in resized image are destructive processes and may even change composition by croping images. I feel it best not to distroy users work if at all posible.  Let the user do that if they wish to.  Using Smart Object let user use any image file they want, Any size, resolution and Image format that Photoshop support.  If the user chooses to use RAW files, PSD files  or any other it their choice and they may have a good reason to use PSD files for a given collage.  When the collage is ready for final output the user is free to flatten and save a compressed jpeg if the wish to save disk space and keep a copy of the collage. They do not have to save a layered collage if they don't wish too.  They only need to that if the batch process collage for later tweaking or the want to continue to work on the collage at some future date.  You don't fight you use smart object. They are only huge if you save layered files their rendered layers are not huge. If the filel is falttened the total rendered flat layer is just canvas size.

                                                                                • 37. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                                                  Noel Carboni Level 8

                                                                                  Clearly I understand the mechanics, JJ.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  It's just that practically speaking it seems unlikely you are going to need to tweak the finer points of the composition of an individual image by moving its layer elements around after you've placed it on a collage.  By then you've got pretty pictures and all you need to do is place them so they combine with the other pretty pictures nicely. 

                                                                                   

                                                                                  EVEN IF YOU DID spot something important wrong with an image, how hard would it be to go back to the original and make the change there, then re-place it?

                                                                                   

                                                                                  If you find yourself a lot of the time with visible mistakes in your component images at the time you're trying to make them into a collage...  Perhaps a better organized effort would have you be done with components before trying to assemble a final result, but I'll just stop, saying just:  To each his own.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  It's just that I find an under 6 megapixel still image work product running afoul of a 2GB limit to be ridiculous of the "operation was a success but the patient died" sort.

                                                                                   

                                                                                  -Noel

                                                                                  • 38. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                                                    JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                                                                                    Smart Object that are layered PSD files can be very useful.  The embedded object only come into play when you place in the image pixels are rendered for the layer. They also into play if you open an embedded smart object them in photoshop to work on. And they also in to play when you save a layered document that has smart object layers. Other then that all that Photoshop manipulates are the pixel rendered for the smart object layer which for collages are useally smaller then canvas size. They are not large.  Mike wanted to save a layerd file with smart object layer for some reasen.  A flatten collage is not large.  Photoshop users like yourself work on documents using layers. You may or may not save a layeded file when you done working.

                                                                                    • 39. Re: Photoshop CS6 & Doc Size & File Size???
                                                                                      JJMack Most Valuable Participant

                                                                                      Noel Carboni wrote:

                                                                                       

                                                                                       

                                                                                      If you find yourself a lot of the time with visible mistakes in your component images at the time you're trying to make them into a collage...  Perhaps a better organized effort would have you be done with components before trying to assemble a final result, but I'll just stop, saying just:  To each his own.

                                                                                       

                                                                                      I would NOT say needing to tweak some image is a mistake.  When you automate placing and size images into collages you do the best you can useally this means a virtial center crop the match the image areas aspect ratio..  Being the whole image is there as a masked smart object it is very easy to improve the collages overall composition and images within it. You do not alway have an image with the right orintation and aspect ratio and images may also need straighting,  Some things can not be automated well in Photoshop Collages can be done well and if Images and templates are carfully created for each other most of the time populated collages will not need tweaking. Still composition can oftem be improved in these well done collages.

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