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1. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
John T Smith Sep 28, 2012 1:34 PM (in response to AudoWarp)What is the codec of that AVI file?
I don't use uncompressed, but there have been some discussion about the UT codec (I think) working well
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2. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
ComputerNovice25 Sep 28, 2012 1:46 PM (in response to AudoWarp)I'd recommend using DNxHD, if it's 1920x1080 footage of footage you've shot on your camera. If it's graphics of some kind then I'd recommend UT or Lagarith as good codec choices. However in my personal experince UT and Lagarith start to be better options than DNxHD when you start dealing with lower resolutions even for footage you shoot. Because they produce lower bit-rates as the Resolution drops.
Although here is a question what type of RAID are you running? Also how many drives in each array?
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3. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
JSS1138 Sep 28, 2012 3:58 PM (in response to AudoWarp)Your work flow is a little backwards. Normally you do the editing on the native footage first, then you add effects and CC. (That's why they call it After Effects).
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4. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 28, 2012 4:17 PM (in response to John T Smith)Its UNCOMPRESSED.
It doesn't have a codec.
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5. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 28, 2012 4:19 PM (in response to ComputerNovice25)That codec is not offered in After Effects...
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6. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 28, 2012 4:26 PM (in response to JSS1138)So you are recommending that I put an hour of video together FIRST, THEN do image stabilization, noise reduction, color correction--all on an hour long video containing some clips that don't need noise reduction, some that don't need image stabilization, some that don't need the SAME color correction...
Whose backwards?
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7. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
ComputerNovice25 Sep 28, 2012 4:34 PM (in response to AudoWarp) -
8. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 28, 2012 5:03 PM (in response to ComputerNovice25)Which one do you like best, and why?
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9. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 28, 2012 5:06 PM (in response to ComputerNovice25)Just looked at Avid's page--where do you get the codec???
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10. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
ComputerNovice25 Sep 28, 2012 5:24 PM (in response to AudoWarp)http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/Download/en392959
I wouldn't say that I have a favorite, honestly I like all three equally for the most part. I use them depending on the content/scenario.
If the resolution is 1920x1080, and it's footage that is actually real footage from a camera, then I like DNxHD. If it's just graphics then I always go with Lagarith or UT. However as the resolution gets lower Lagarith and UT become better for real footage as well. Because the bit-rate doesn't get as high, which for me is important because I have to hold onto clients footage for long periods of time so I don't want to have to waste storage space. One thing to note though is that DNxHD is visually lossless, Lagarith and UT are both totally lossless. Although honestly in my own personal experince I've never noticed any quality loss with DNxHD 220 unless you zoom in to about 400 percent, which obviously doesn't really matter.
I've also recently started testing the MXF-OP1A format with the AVC Intra Class-100 codec. It appears to do well with 1920x1080 footage and doesn't really appear to show much quality difference.
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11. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 28, 2012 7:17 PM (in response to ComputerNovice25)I just downloaded the Avid codec.
Unfortunatley, I prefer 29.997 FPS....
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12. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
ComputerNovice25 Sep 28, 2012 8:14 PM (in response to AudoWarp)It uses 29.97 When it says 59.94 it's referring to fields not frames.
However if you don't want to trust that, then use Lagarith or UT.
1080i/59.94 and 1080i/29.97 both mean the same thing, one is just referring to fields the other to frames but 59.94 fields = 29.97 frames.
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13. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
shooternz Sep 28, 2012 8:17 PM (in response to AudoWarp)So you are recommending that I put an hour of video together FIRST, THEN do image stabilization, noise reduction, color correction--all on an hour long video containing some clips that don't need noise reduction, some that don't need image stabilization, some that don't need the SAME color correction...
Whose backwards?
Actually..that would be you.
Both film and digital professionals still use the time tested workflow where one edits first then applies all the fx and cc to the locked down edit.
ie..the finessing and heavy lifting is done on the least amount of footage for efficiency in time and effort. All adds up to cost.
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14. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
JSS1138 Sep 28, 2012 8:22 PM (in response to AudoWarp)Whose backwards?
Well...you are. The normal flow here is to edit first, then apply the effects only to those clips that need it. Applying the effects first is often a waste of time because you normally don't know yet which clips will be used, which will need CC or effects, etc. Color correction is much more easily done right in PP than going over to AE, the Warp Stabilizer is now available right in PP, and Neat Video is often considered the best noise reduction tool out there, also available as a plug-in for PP.
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15. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
Steven L. Gotz Sep 28, 2012 9:20 PM (in response to AudoWarp)I use the Cineform codec because of the minimal loss due to the wavelets. The $250 version (http://cineform.com/products/gopro-cineform-studio-premium#specs) would allow you to convert everything from HDV to your DSLR to RED footage. Exporting back and forth from After Effects to Premiere Pro is easy, and as close to lossless as you can get without be uncompressed.
It is easy on the PC. Much easier than the native footage.
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16. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 28, 2012 9:39 PM (in response to JSS1138)I shoot insects.
I need to be able to apply post to individual shots--not an entire movie.
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17. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 28, 2012 9:37 PM (in response to JSS1138)Do you know how long the Warp stabilizer would take on an hour long video?
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18. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 28, 2012 9:38 PM (in response to JSS1138)"Applying the effects first is often a waste of time because you normally don't know yet which clips will be used:.
Garbage.
I won't know what clips will be used until they are polished.
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19. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 28, 2012 9:46 PM (in response to JSS1138)Come on, Jim--really?
Is polishing clips so that they can be assembled into a production REALLY that unusual?
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20. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 28, 2012 9:59 PM (in response to JSS1138)No Jim.
Not every film has all the shots done before the post processing must begin.
I need to know what output format to choose, as I do AfterEffects on individual shots.
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21. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
JSS1138 Sep 28, 2012 10:03 PM (in response to AudoWarp)Is polishing clips so that they can be assembled into a production REALLY that unusual?
Yes, it is.
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22. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
Steven L. Gotz Sep 28, 2012 10:13 PM (in response to AudoWarp)I was going to tell you that I believed that the stabilizer takes longer the more it has to work. That is not exactly so.
It takes the same amount of time to analyze perfectly steady video as it does shaky video. Only the stabilizing of the shaky video takes more time.
In any case, I can't tell you exactly how long it takes on an hour long video, but I can tell you that it takes about 10 minutes on a 1minute video. On my PC anyway. So probably ten hours?
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23. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
ComputerNovice25 Sep 28, 2012 11:02 PM (in response to AudoWarp)I've never worked with any editor or production house/TV station that edits anything the way you desribe. I've always done my basic edit where I chose all my shots and get everything together, then after I have all my basic edit task completed I do the CC and other things that need to be done. Because otherwise you'll end up wasting time and storage space by correcting a lot of raw footage that you don't ever end up actually using in the final product.
If you don't need to stabilize the entire video then all you have to do is cut the section that needs to be stabilized. This way the effect only does anything to the short section which requires it. You can do the same for other effects as well such as CC. You just cut the part that needs the "specifc" settings, then apply the effect to the cut segment. For certain effects you can just use adjustment layers and only stretch them over the certain parts of your video that need the effect.
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24. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 29, 2012 11:01 AM (in response to ComputerNovice25)It doesn't make any sense to do it that way.
Crossfades wouldn't work properly.
Denoising would need to be done on every section, differently.
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25. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 29, 2012 11:09 AM (in response to JSS1138)Yeah, well...here's the thing, Jim: I shoot wildlife and nature scenes. i don't shoot them all at once. I collect them over time. So when I bring them home, I polish them as I get them. I need a video editor than can take the clips that I've collected over the year and put them together with music for the final edit. I'm not going to go back to the raw footage and work from there.
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26. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
Rallymax-forum Sep 29, 2012 12:18 PM (in response to AudoWarp)I think both work flows are right.
I too have footage that needs to be fixed in AE before it's edited. Yes I end up fixing all the footage that ends up on the floor but I need to fix it all to find out what's usable. It's the nature of gathering footage loose and fast for nature, or in my case, steam trains.
So, AE is a great way to pre-process. Is it what it's designed for, well no, but that's where warp stabilizer and good CC are.
as for a DI to work with, as stated above, DNxHD and Ut Lossless are very good and don't have the almost impossible playback requirements of uncompressed.
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27. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 29, 2012 12:22 PM (in response to Rallymax-forum)Thank you.
Where can I find this "Ut"?
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28. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
Rallymax-forum Sep 29, 2012 12:33 PM (in response to AudoWarp) -
29. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
Rallymax-forum Sep 29, 2012 12:48 PM (in response to Steven L. Gotz)Oh btw. Don't warp stabalize more than 10min per AE project. It runs out of ram and crashes.
I ended up batch warp stabizing, basic color correcting and denoising each camera file in projects with a total composition time less than 10 min. Eg 4-5 files per project.
I let it crunch for a week and then worked with the digital intermediate. Ut in was chosen in that case.
I tried dynamic link but the work AE needs to do can't be done at 30fps so DI is a much better workflow. It's also then my archive format. For this reason I'm working on changing to AVC Lossless because Ut and DnxHD are not international standards and I want to be able to open it in 10 years.
After editing I then dropped select clips back into AE to do post production special effects. Most the time I just use the premiere 3 way color corrector so I skip going to AE for most clips.
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30. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 29, 2012 1:10 PM (in response to JSS1138)Also, my clips find there way into multiple projects.
I don't wnat to be redoing the de-noising, CC, stabilizing--or whatever else each time I need the clip.
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31. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
shooternz Sep 29, 2012 2:19 PM (in response to AudoWarp)You are telling us that the professional industry is wrong and you are right all by your self!
The workflow is based around Conform, Digital Intermediates and Edit First. (and importantly 'Handles')
One edits and signs off...
The clips used in the EDIT are taken to the CC/Grade and FX work point
All work done on the individual clips includes "HANDLES" (extensions to the In /Out of the clips). Work done on the duration of the edited clip saves time , effort and space. ( Its a no brainer)
These are out put as Digital Intermediates for RECONFORMING to the EDIT. (This also makes them available for other edits and projects)
Reconforming is done via EDL or XML workflows.
Dynamic Link has its value but DI is better at a higher end of workflow. eg. You can not DL across Platforms, systems or facilities. It is a local only workflow for one local puter.
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32. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 29, 2012 3:28 PM (in response to shooternz)I have no idea wha you just said here, or how it applies to me.
I polish my clips in After Effects as I collect them--over weeks, months, YEARS.
They go into multiple projects.
My question is what format to output from After Effects so that Premiere can handle them.
Not sure why this is so troublesome...
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33. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
Rallymax-forum Sep 29, 2012 4:09 PM (in response to AudoWarp)Ut Lossless in YUYV mode.
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34. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
ComputerNovice25 Sep 29, 2012 4:47 PM (in response to AudoWarp)Be careful when downloading things from video help. I have downloaded things there before that have viruses. After you download anything always check it here at virustotal.com
In my own personal experince around 5-10 percent of the stuff on that site has viruses.
Here is the link for Lagarith
http://lags.leetcode.net/codec.html
Also since I noticed you didn't respond to what i explained earlier, 59.94 = 29.97 in this case because AVID writes it like this
1080i/59.94 is referring to 59.94 fields not frames which 59.94 fields = 29.97 frames. Just so you know.
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35. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
shooternz Sep 29, 2012 5:28 PM (in response to AudoWarp)I am.sorry...I did not realise you were building a library of shots and not actually working within an Edit Sequence or specific Project .
Actually ..you are working a Digital Intermediate Workflow already!
If your system cant manage the AVI Uncompressed in subsequent edits try the UT Lagarith Suggestion
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36. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 29, 2012 7:34 PM (in response to ComputerNovice25)Well I won't download anything ELSE from video help--10% virus rate doen'st sound promising...
...
On the framerate thing, I guess that makes sense.....thanx.
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37. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
ComputerNovice25 Sep 29, 2012 7:51 PM (in response to AudoWarp)Honestly I wish that companys would stop doing that, because it does cause confusion. Several companys also list stuff as 1080i/60 which actually means 1080i/29.97 they just do it because they are referring to fields then rounding up from 59.94 to 60 which causes even more confusion. Whenever you see 1080i/50 it actually means 1080i/25 with AVID as well.
Also just wanted to note that I just saw that you do plan on using all your footage and if you know for a fact you're going to use all the footage then nothing is wrong with the workflow you're describing. I simply didn't realize you plan to use every piece of footage.
Normally I don't end up using all my footage which is why my workflow is generally different from what you're doing. I misunderstood what was being said.
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38. Re: My workflow--and what format I should export to...
AudoWarp Sep 30, 2012 4:12 AM (in response to ComputerNovice25)Thanks for all your help.
I'm not a professional editor. This is my hobby. I clean up my video takes in much the same way I post process my photos--so I can then see their full potential....
I hope this DNxHD codec will be a good fit for me--enabling smooth playback in Premiere as I fit all the pieces together--eventually...




