-
1. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
John T Smith Nov 9, 2012 10:20 AM (in response to ccraine)Yes, Encore uses "some" space for file structure overhead
Also... I don't remember the exact number... a 4.7 DVD is not REALLY 4.7 due to the way DVD space is calculated -vs- file sizes on a computer
Also, check your ROM setting to be sure you have not put a file or folder in that option box
And, finally, does Encore show your files as "do not transcode" so they are 100% compliant... or does Encore have to re-transcode the files?
-
2. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
SAFEHARBOR11 Nov 9, 2012 11:12 AM (in response to John T Smith)Hi Chris,
A couple of questions:
1) What is the exact length of the video in minutes?
2) What is the size/format of your audio file? I work on PC and generally have a .wav file which in itself can add 1GB or more to the project for long videos, but - when I create the DVD in Encore, that audio is transcoded to Dolby AC-3 and then it all just fits.
So regardless of what the size is saying, have you actually tried burning a DVD yet? Might be much ado about nothing...
A good rule of thumb for encoding the video asset is to use 560/minutes=bitrate. Got this from the Adobe website a few years back. I just round down a bit for safety to allow for overhead, for instance 560/120=4.66, I will encode at 4.5 and it never fails me.
Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers
-
3. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
ccraine Nov 9, 2012 2:11 PM (in response to John T Smith)John,
Under Build, the DVD-ROM box is empty... .hopefully that mean nothing was added.
As for the Video and audio files...they all read "Don't Transcode" except for one audio piece reads "untranscoded"
the menus all have a "--" and "n/a"
what exactly does that mean for me?
thanks for the help,
chris
-
4. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
ccraine Nov 9, 2012 2:16 PM (in response to SAFEHARBOR11)Jeff,
1) 82 minutes for the video length.
2) the video is an .m2v (3.9gb)
the audio is an .ac3 (131mb)
3) i am able to burn a dvd with just the movie itself *if i remove all my extra content (trailer, deleted scenes)* because it is only 4.45gb... but once i add all the extras in it is 4.95gb which won't fit anymore. I click "build" then "check project" and it says "exceeds capacity"
my video was endoded at 8mbs in apple compressor.
i just am confused why a 3.9gb file all of a sudden (this has been tested in a brand new project with no menus or anything) all of a sudden goes up to 4.45gb with no added features? Adobe Encore project planning portion says to take into account an extra 4% but that is more like 10%, just confused to whether this happens for everyone and why it might be doing this.... cuz its really hard to figure out how small you should compress your video.
thanks again,
chris
-
5. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
SAFEHARBOR11 Nov 9, 2012 2:27 PM (in response to ccraine)It sounds like the extra material you were adding is pushing it over capacity.That said, 8mb is the setting for ONE HOUR of video. For 82 minutes, I would look at 560/82= 6.8 data rate and then round down a bit for safety margin (does not account for trailers and such though!), so encoding at 6.7 would normally be safe.
If it is not practical for you to re-encode the source again, as I realize that was done on a Mac and you are authoring on a PC, try this - go ahead and BUILD the disc, but set the output to FOLDER and this will create the VIDEO_TS folder on the hard drive. It will be too big to burn to disc, as you found.
Download and install "DVD Shrink" freeware and run that on the VIDEO_TS and within minutes, you should have a new file that will fit the disc, then burn that to disc from Encore (or other software that supports burning "DVD-Video" discs).
Thanks
Jeff
-
6. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
ccraine Nov 10, 2012 12:57 PM (in response to SAFEHARBOR11)Hi Jeff,
thanks again for the response. These are the apple compressor "best" settings I went with based on this blog. Average bit rate : 7mbs and max : 8.3mbs
http://lumenosity.blogspot.com/2010/07/best-apple-compressor-settings-for-dvd.html
Do you think this is STILL too high? im really worried about skimping on the quality of the movie.
Yes, you are correct. the movie by itself will fit and burn on a dvd....HOWEVER, i am trying to fit "deleted scenes" and "trailer" on there as well under the bonus features.... it just seemed to me that the movie itself is only 3.9gb and why even by itself it jumps up to 4.45gb...doesnt really make sense to me? what does your computer read when you drop a movie into Encore... say you had a 4gb movie...what does it say the timeline size is?
I have no problem going back into apple compressor and lowering it further if I REALLY had too.... i just want to make sure I am not doing something wrong in Encore that its adding an additional 0.55 gb for no reason or if that happens to everyone before i do that.
thanks
chris
-
7. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
Stan Jones Nov 10, 2012 9:12 PM (in response to ccraine)Your solution will lie with Jeff's direction. Ultimately, you can only get on the disk what will fit based on the length of your movies, including extra content - video and audio - and the size of menu, especially motion menus.
I get confused about Encore's estimates every time this comes up. So once again, I tried to sort it out.
Basically, Encore says it is tracking GB in the build panel, but it is really tracking bytes. A DVD that is called "4.7 Gigabytes" is really only 4.38GB - it is 4,706,074,624 bytes. To get to Gigabytes, you divide by 1,073,741,824 (1.024 * 1024 * 1024). Which is about 4.38.
What this means is that if you read your file size as 3.9GB, it is actually 4,187,593,113 bytes. To make this confusing within Encore, Encore reports your file in the project panel as 3.9GB. But when it lists the amount of the disk used and free in the build panel, it is reporting bytes with "GB" after it.
I just did a no menu test with a 1.69GB m2v and 41.5MB ac3. Encore reports 526KB of ROM used (the size of empty rom), used as 1.91GB, and 2.79GB free on a 4.7GB disk. (Remember that these are all bytes.) Built to a folder, Encore reports that it is writing 1.89 GB (really bytes), and the actual output folder size is 1,891,278,848.
My recollection now is that it may have been only bluray that was the subject of comments about Encore padding its predictions of size on disk. What we are seeing here is no padding.
Here is a bitrate calculator that may help you understand more about the factors that relate to the bitrate of your movies. http://dvd-hq.info/bitrate_calculator.php#Calculator
I can't find my favorite at the moment, that plugs in some allowance for menus and motion menus.
You're going to need some trial and error since you don't know how much space you are going to use for your menus. You'll add the running time for your extra content (actual timelines) as if it were part of the main movie.
-
8. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
ccraine Nov 11, 2012 9:47 AM (in response to Stan Jones)I see. Thanks for the info, Stan. AND thanks for breaking down the math. NOW its starting to make sense.... yea, kind of odd that Encore doesn't just report the size in "bytes" from the get-go if it is going to later report it in "bytes" from the build panel. Weird.
Based on your project and mine, Encore right away adds 13% (gb to bytes and padding). I feel like they should mention this in the "project planning" section. 3.9gb * 1.13 = 4.41gb (for mine, close to the 4.45gb i was getting) and 1.69gb * 1.13 = 1.91gb (what you got).
Oh well. I am going to try to compress the extra features further and see if I can find a way to crunch them in. Gonna be tough though, may have to eventually give in and recompress my full movie at a lower MBS like 6.7 average and 8 max.
It will definitely take some more trial and error, like you said.
thanks guys.
-
9. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
Stan Jones Nov 11, 2012 10:09 AM (in response to ccraine)kind of odd that Encore doesn't just report the size in "bytes" from the get-go if it is going to later report it in "bytes" from the build panel. Weird.
Well, in their defense, users would find it odd that they are not reporting a DVD as "4.7 GB" rather than 4.38. And the only way to say how much of the 4.7 is filled up is keep the myth of the 4.7GB disk by reporting GB as bytes.
Encore right away adds 13% (gb to bytes and padding.
I wouldn't refer to the conversion of GB to bytes as adding. Also, I am now thinking is was bluray not dvd where the discussion of "padding" occurred. I don't think we should call it "padding" when Encore predicts the size on the DVD reasonable accurately. My test dvd resulted in 3 vobs that were part of the main program. They totalled 1,890,834,160 bytes. My m2v and a3c totalled 1,858,801,664. Encore predicted that the actual size on the DVD would be 1.89. I don't know how Encore predicts that, but the muxing into vobs obviously adds something.
Other than indulging my obsessiveness, I comment on this because it is important to know whether the occassional "project exceeds disc capacity" error is real or artifact. For DVDs, I suspect it is usually real - meaning that Encore is telling you (would likely tell you once you add just a bit more to your disk), that when it is built it really will be more than the capacity of the DVD.
The beauty of Jeff's 560 rule is that you don't have to track a lot of this to get close to a usuable datarate.
-
10. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
SAFEHARBOR11 Nov 12, 2012 7:58 AM (in response to Stan Jones)Personally, I'm seldom even looking at the size indicators in Encore. If the project is too big, it will tell me when I go to burn anyways! I encode using the 560 formula, and round down, and most of the time am good to go, unless I do something stupid like entering the wrong video duration into the formula.
You mentioned choosing the "8.3" setting from the blog you referenced, but if you look at the bottom of the encoding window snapshot, it says "For 72 minutes of video". I am surprised that the blog says nothing about program length - maybe it assumes everyone is doing shorts? Their settings go out the window when you get much over an hour in length.
Many of my productions are around two hours, with a batch of recent dance recitals averaging 2.5 hours on a single 4.7GB DVD and they look fine (background is static and mostly black, so content compresed quite well). I've gone as high as 3 hours, and because of the content, even that looked decent, though I wouldn't recommend it for a lot of subjects.
So if you need to re-encode, add up the total run time - not just main project, but extras included - then figure out the encode rate. You might want to try my other suggestion of burning existing project as is to a FOLDER, then use DVD Shrink to make it fit the disc. I've found the quality to be very good this way, and it re-compresses the content to EXACTLY fit the disc, so you won't end up with 100mb of empty space that way.
Thanks
Jeff
-
11. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
ccraine Nov 12, 2012 10:32 PM (in response to SAFEHARBOR11)Okay, well let's say the movie is 82minutes. the trailer is 2min and the deleted scenes are 2min, so a grand total of 84min.
My question is then... should i compress to 560 / 84min = 6.66mbs and fit it to a 4.7gb dvd
OR
what is the formula for figuring out the correct compression rate for an 8.5gb (dual layer dvd-r dl)? im assuming its no longer 560 but something else...
in other words, rather than compressing it more to fit on a smaller dvd, why not compress it less and fit it on a larger dvd? with this said, i have heard... (not sure if its true) that some dvd players can' thandle over 8mbs (even though they say 9.8mbs is the max) true or false?
chris
-
12. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
ccraine Nov 12, 2012 10:34 PM (in response to ccraine)Also, another question...
IF 560/84min = 6.6 mbs ....is the average mbs i should set it at... what is the max and min I should set it at?
thanks
chris
-
13. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
SAFEHARBOR11 Nov 13, 2012 6:36 AM (in response to ccraine)Hi Chris,
I would round down a touch and call it 6.5, especially if using motion menus that will eat up additional space more than a still menu. I have NEVER burned a dual-layer, and many of my jobs are 2 hours or even more. Heard too many stories about authoring issues, playback issues, and then there's the expense as well.
With your program being short in my view, definitely no need for dual layer at all! And for my own reasons, I usually stick with CBR unless program is longer. Maybe this is old school, but with VBR recordings, players used to hiccup when the data rate spiked and I just had better results with CBR encoding overall for consistent quality.
The 6.5 setting should look pretty nice as CBR, but I don't know what your content is and that can make a difference. If you need to go VBR, you could so something like 4 - 6.5 - 8 for instance. In any case, I would never consider VBR for anything under an hour for a simple reason - there is room on the disc to encode the entire program at the highest quality, so why mess around and have some scenes encoded at lower quality? Doesn't make sense to me.
Jeff Pulera
Safe Harbor Computers
-
14. Re: DVD exceeds Capacity : 3.9gb file turns to 4.45gb, normal?
ccraine Nov 13, 2012 8:34 PM (in response to SAFEHARBOR11)Hey guys, i decided to continue my questions in a different forum (since i think my topic has changed a bit) to help other people too....
hopefully you guys can shed some light on this.... sorry for being totally ignorant and new at this....just trying to understand how it all works.
http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1098701
you can check out the trailer of the movie we are trying to author in Encore so you know what your efforts are going towards...
thanks so much for all the help.



